Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-08-10, 09:30 AM   #776
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As a strong proponent of not cycling on sidewalks I do believe it is possible to do so with relative safety. This means at a slow pace due to uneven surfaces, pedestrians and poor sight lines. One must also stop at every intersection/driveway to ensure no vehicle is turning across (from all directions!). Overall this results in significantly slower travel. I know that I don't have the discipline, the patience nor the time to so I have always used the road as it is far more convenient and comfortable.
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-10, 07:09 PM   #777
trx1
Senior Member
 
trx1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 306
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
all that for BOSTON. come to my town and the stats will be reversed!
trx1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-10, 12:15 PM   #778
pletcgm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Bikes: 2002 Giant OCR 3, 2003 Giant OCR Elite, 2004 Giant TCR, 2004 Giant OCR Touring, 2003 Giant Iguana, 2004 Cannondale Ironman 800, 2005 Giant Trance 3
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have started commuting back and forth to the office. Of all the thousands of miles I have ridden, there is one strip, about 1/2 mile, I get on the sidewalk because the cars on that road scare me to death. It goes through the projects, which is the only way to the west side of Nashville from the downtown area, other than interstate.
pletcgm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-10, 05:42 PM   #779
hotbike
Senior Member
 
hotbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island, New York
Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is how I installed a camera on my bike (the Type Eleven):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPy3p24exg

This next vid shows some sidewalk bicycling, but you can see how bad the road is, in the gutter next to the curb:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B7tBoW6gtU
How do you like the new sidewalk? I think it is well done, even though the road went "on a diet" to make the sidewalk wider.

A bit more sidewalk riding, before pulling out and taking the lane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scIxVh7jJ28

My Five Hundredth Video! At the Glen Street LIRR station:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcG9qUWUHn4
hotbike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-10, 02:12 AM   #780
009jim
Senior Member
 
009jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Bikes: Giant CRX3, Trek 7100
Posts: 1,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What? Is the argument that if you ride on the sidewalk you can collide with a car that enters private property? I had a close call like that one time. The last mile or so before I get to work, I take the sidewalk. It's legal here. But I do go fairly slow and watch at driveways. At least there is the advantage that a vehicle leaving or entering private property is going slow though.
009jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-10, 09:46 AM   #781
dpeters11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Bikes: 2010 Trek FX 7.5, 2011 Trek 2.1
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 009jim View Post
What? Is the argument that if you ride on the sidewalk you can collide with a car that enters private property? I had a close call like that one time. The last mile or so before I get to work, I take the sidewalk. It's legal here. But I do go fairly slow and watch at driveways. At least there is the advantage that a vehicle leaving or entering private property is going slow though.
That's one reason. Personally I think it's also more dangerous as you have a narrower strip of pavement, with more obstacles. In my area, you'd be close to road signs on one side, and potential obstacles (trash cans etc) on the other. It's a fairly moot point for me, sidewalk cycling is illegal in my city when over the age of 14.
dpeters11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-10, 11:32 AM   #782
ianbrettcooper
Senior Member
 
ianbrettcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 009jim View Post
What? Is the argument that if you ride on the sidewalk you can collide with a car that enters private property?
That is one danger. But the main danger comes at intersections, at the point where you have to leave the sidewalk. Drivers tend to be looking at the places where vehicle threats are likely to come from - especially vehicles that could intersect their path. They are not usually considering things coming from the sidewalk as a major threat, so they tend to pay less attention there. Also, if you're riding on the sidewalk against vehicular traffic, drivers pay even less attention to you.

Personally, I try to never ride on the sidewalk unless:

1. I know it's legal to do so (including legality of cycling across all types of crosswalk - it is not always the case that these go hand-in-hand).
2. I'm on the same block as my destination (meaning I won't be crossing an intersection).

The thing is, if you're in an accident and it's illegal to be where you were when you were hit, you're going to be deemed at fault. This can cost a lot of money and if you're injured or killed by a driver who is also at fault, you (or your family) have no chance of getting any sort of recompense or justice.
ianbrettcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-10, 02:23 AM   #783
APER, Man!
Member
 
APER, Man!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sonoma County, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper View Post
1. I know it's legal to do so (including legality of cycling across all types of crosswalk - it is not always the case that these go hand-in-hand).
2. I'm on the same block as my destination (meaning I won't be crossing an intersection).
I would add:
3. The particular street (for whatever reason) is too dangerous.
APER, Man! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 12:47 PM   #784
mikeybikes
Senior Member
 
mikeybikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Bikes: Tons
Posts: 3,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by APER, Man! View Post
I would add:
3. The particular street (for whatever reason) is too dangerous.
The issue with that is it's subjective.

IMO, I've found very few roads where I would ever feel safer on the sidewalk than I would the road. In the city I live in (Golden), I can't think of one road where I feel safer on the sidewalk. Quite the contrary, most sidewalks here I feel put you at more risk of a collision than the road.

Yet, when I try to encourage my friends to ride in the road, they say "It's too dangerous!" They just for whatever reason, can't imagine riding on a 35mph arterial here.
mikeybikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 12:56 PM   #785
ianbrettcooper
Senior Member
 
ianbrettcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by APER, Man! View Post
I would add:
3. The particular street (for whatever reason) is too dangerous.
If a street is too dangerous, you can be sure that crossing an intersection on the sidewalk is even more so. You're always better-off in the street, where cars can see you, than on the sidewalk where they cannot.
ianbrettcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 01:01 PM   #786
LesterOfPuppets
cowboy, steel horse, etc
 
LesterOfPuppets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Bikes: My War
Posts: 26,369
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I'm pretty picky about my sidewalks for cycling. This is one of the few I ride. It stays much drier than the bikelane and that really sells it for me.

LesterOfPuppets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 06:59 PM   #787
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 4,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I really do hate riding on the sidewalk. However I went to a city I was unfamiliar with (Chicago) and was intimidated... ended up riding on the sidewalk a few times
Jaytron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 07:59 PM   #788
ianbrettcooper
Senior Member
 
ianbrettcooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 612
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
I really do hate riding on the sidewalk. However I went to a city I was unfamiliar with (Chicago) and was intimidated... ended up riding on the sidewalk a few times
Okay, but you're being intimidated by a way of riding that's SAFER (two to three TIMES safer) than a way of riding that makes you 'feel' safer but isn't - and then you're allowing your fear to overwhelm your intellect and choosing the more dangerous option. It's like being afraid to fly on a commercial airliner and then choosing skydiving as a hobby. It makes no rational sense.
ianbrettcooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 08:04 PM   #789
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Riding on a sidewalk can be reasonably safe if one is aware of the all the potential hazards and proactively addresses each and every one. However because doing so slows one down considerably and is tedious is very easy to become complacent to them and not treat each and every one with the attention required.
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 08:34 PM   #790
SpiderJones
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper View Post
That is one danger. But the main danger comes at intersections, at the point where you have to leave the sidewalk. Drivers tend to be looking at the places where vehicle threats are likely to come from - especially vehicles that could intersect their path. They are not usually considering things coming from the sidewalk as a major threat, so they tend to pay less attention there. Also, if you're riding on the sidewalk against vehicular traffic, drivers pay even less attention to you.
I just collected a datapoint on campus at work today, to support this point. As a cyclist of course I am always on the lookout for cyclists. I was at a T-junction intersection, with a yield into the major road. Traffic is very light, maybe one car a minute at peak. I was looking left (and right) to turn left. The road was completely empty. I started to turn left. What I DIDN'T SEE was a guy on a mountain bike riding on the sidewalk. When I started to pull out, he entered the intersection: I saw him and stopped. If I was going faster and taking less notice he would have smacked into the side of my car. If he had been riding anywhere in the road I would have seen him early.

No actual harm done, but I hope he learned that he would have been safer on the road than on the sidewalk. I learned that i should pay more attention to unexpected things on the sidewalk.
SpiderJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 08:37 PM   #791
rando
Senior Member
 
rando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tempe, AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 2,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets View Post
I'm pretty picky about my sidewalks for cycling. This is one of the few I ride. It stays much drier than the bikelane and that really sells it for me.

There's no reason to NOt ride that sidewalk.
__________________
"Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world". ~Grant Petersen

Cyclists fare best when they recognize that there are times when acting vehicularly is not the best practice, and are flexible enough to do what is necessary as the situation warrants.--Me
rando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 09:50 PM   #792
noisebeam
Al
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex
Posts: 14,109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando View Post
There's no reason to NOt ride that sidewalk.
Sure there is - the unknown hiding in the fog
noisebeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 09:57 PM   #793
mikeybikes
Senior Member
 
mikeybikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edgewater, CO
Bikes: Tons
Posts: 3,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rando View Post
There's no reason to NOt ride that sidewalk.
Depends on how the sidewalk ends at the intersections and if it dumps you onto the road at some awkward spot. Many of paths are nice until you reach another road.

Also, those concrete slabs don't look to be the most even.

Also, while there appears to be no pedestrians, what if you did run into one? That sidewalk isn't very wide. It would be difficult to pass the pedestrian if you came up on them in the fog at speed..

So yes, there are reasons to not ride that sidewalk.
mikeybikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-10, 11:57 PM   #794
Jaytron
Brown Bear, Sqrl Hunter
 
Jaytron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: CAAD 10 4, Dolan DF4, Fuji Track Classic
Posts: 4,361
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper View Post
Okay, but you're being intimidated by a way of riding that's SAFER (two to three TIMES safer) than a way of riding that makes you 'feel' safer but isn't - and then you're allowing your fear to overwhelm your intellect and choosing the more dangerous option. It's like being afraid to fly on a commercial airliner and then choosing skydiving as a hobby. It makes no rational sense.
I didn't know it was that much safer to be honest. I just knew that sidewalk was a no-no. I need to look into this more
Jaytron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-10, 07:55 PM   #796
rusted_rider
Senior Member
 
rusted_rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
get on the road
rusted_rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-10, 02:55 AM   #797
Shadowex3
Senior Member
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ѺϡϟᐝᓿᕔᙰᔒѪᓁҸѨҨ
Bikes: Kuwahara Aries
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
I didn't know it was that much safer to be honest. I just knew that sidewalk was a no-no. I need to look into this more
Take count of every single bruise, bump, and skinned knee without regard to circumstances (car jumps a curb, cat, User Error) and call it an injury and yeah it's safer. Limit yourself to fatalities or serious injuries caused by rider error and it's probably not.

Ride in the street recklessly and bad things happen, ride on the sidewalk recklessly and bad things happen. Safety is in how you choose to ride, wherever you ride you need to behave appropriately for the conditions. Think of it like someone drivingly blindly, too fast, while on their cellphone, and in the rain just because they're in a hummer. They've got a deathwish just like someone riding like an idiot on the sidewalk has a deathwish just like someone riding like an idiot in the street has a deathwish.

Always remember there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.

Last edited by Shadowex3; 11-08-10 at 03:15 AM.
Shadowex3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-10, 06:06 PM   #798
storckm
Cyclist
 
storckm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Bikes: Yuba Mundo; Early 70's Free Spirit (Reynolds 531) fixie; 80's Shogun 500; Mid 90's Iron Horse tandem; trailer and tag-a-long; Schwinn Range for commuting, with lights and front and rear racks.
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In the past two years or so of living on Main Street, I've seen two cyclists injured. Both this past summer, and both were riding on the sidewalk. There have been more car crashes--I haven't kept count. No cyclists riding on the road were injured.
storckm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-10, 11:40 PM   #799
Shadowex3
Senior Member
 
Shadowex3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ѺϡϟᐝᓿᕔᙰᔒѪᓁҸѨҨ
Bikes: Kuwahara Aries
Posts: 136
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
And I've been privy to several dozen incidences of people getting hurt by seatbelts and their bars of soap, does that mean that seatbelts and soap are both bad? The plural of "anecdote" is not data.
Shadowex3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-10, 06:46 AM   #800
irwin7638
Senior Member
 
irwin7638's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kalamazoo, Mi.
Bikes: Byron,Sam, The Hunq and that Old Guy
Posts: 2,842
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I recognize that sidewalk riding is more dangerous because most accidents happen at intersections, and sidewalks create more intersections which do not endanger drivers, so they totally ignore them. That being said I do ride a few select sidewalks and it depends upon the density of traffic, width of the thoroughfare and the number of driveways. It really has to be subjectively chosen on a case by case basis.
irwin7638 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:31 AM.