Originally Posted by rando
(Post 11685969)
There's no reason to NOt ride that sidewalk.
Also, those concrete slabs don't look to be the most even. Also, while there appears to be no pedestrians, what if you did run into one? That sidewalk isn't very wide. It would be difficult to pass the pedestrian if you came up on them in the fog at speed.. So yes, there are reasons to not ride that sidewalk. |
Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper
(Post 11685777)
Okay, but you're being intimidated by a way of riding that's SAFER (two to three TIMES safer) than a way of riding that makes you 'feel' safer but isn't - and then you're allowing your fear to overwhelm your intellect and choosing the more dangerous option. It's like being afraid to fly on a commercial airliner and then choosing skydiving as a hobby. It makes no rational sense.
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get on the road
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Originally Posted by Jaytron
(Post 11686599)
I didn't know it was that much safer to be honest. I just knew that sidewalk was a no-no. I need to look into this more :)
Ride in the street recklessly and bad things happen, ride on the sidewalk recklessly and bad things happen. Safety is in how you choose to ride, wherever you ride you need to behave appropriately for the conditions. Think of it like someone drivingly blindly, too fast, while on their cellphone, and in the rain just because they're in a hummer. They've got a deathwish just like someone riding like an idiot on the sidewalk has a deathwish just like someone riding like an idiot in the street has a deathwish. Always remember there are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. |
In the past two years or so of living on Main Street, I've seen two cyclists injured. Both this past summer, and both were riding on the sidewalk. There have been more car crashes--I haven't kept count. No cyclists riding on the road were injured.
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And I've been privy to several dozen incidences of people getting hurt by seatbelts and their bars of soap, does that mean that seatbelts and soap are both bad? The plural of "anecdote" is not data.
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I recognize that sidewalk riding is more dangerous because most accidents happen at intersections, and sidewalks create more intersections which do not endanger drivers, so they totally ignore them. That being said I do ride a few select sidewalks and it depends upon the density of traffic, width of the thoroughfare and the number of driveways. It really has to be subjectively chosen on a case by case basis.
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My attitude is this: anyone who ever chooses to ride their bicycle through an intersection from a sidewalk simply doesn't understand how incredibly dangerous it is to do so. If they knew the danger, they would never do it.
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Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper
(Post 11790170)
My attitude is this: anyone who ever chooses to ride their bicycle through an intersection from a sidewalk simply doesn't understand how incredibly dangerous it is to do so. If they knew the danger, they would never do it.
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Originally Posted by bhop
(Post 11790198)
It's no more dangerous than walking through an intersection from a sidewalk, provided you keep your brakes covered and don't just jump off the curb without looking and making sure it's safe to do so first.
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Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper
(Post 11790275)
Like I said, anyone who ever chooses to ride their bicycle through an intersection from a sidewalk simply doesn't understand how incredibly dangerous it is to do so.
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I don't or have extremely rarely (to the point I can't remember the last time when) cycled on a sidewalk. However if I had to I know I could do it with reasonable safety. It would be annoying, but I could.
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Originally Posted by bhop
(Post 11790460)
That's a silly statement. Just because someone might choose to do something doesn't mean they don't understand any dangers involved, and as I suggested earlier, adjusting their riding accordingly can make it just as safe as walking.
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Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper
(Post 11791252)
If all you want is to be as safe as pedestrians in a crosswalk, I'd say your safety bar is set too low.
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
(Post 11791440)
I'd want to be as safe as a pedestrian who is aware of the hazards and is taking proactive steps to address them. I believe that sets a bar for a reasonable level of safety.
Seriously, if someone is afraid to cross the street on foot, at a crosswalk no less, then I'd say their safety bar is set too high. |
Originally Posted by noisebeam
(Post 11791440)
I'd want to be as safe as a pedestrian who is aware of the hazards and is taking proactive steps to address them. I believe that sets a bar for a reasonable level of safety.
Originally Posted by GriddleCakes
(Post 11791572)
You daredevil! :D
Seriously, if someone is afraid to cross the street on foot, at a crosswalk no less, then I'd say their safety bar is set too high. |
Originally Posted by bhop
(Post 11790460)
That's a silly statement. Just because someone might choose to do something doesn't mean they don't understand any dangers involved, and as I suggested earlier, adjusting their riding accordingly can make it just as safe as walking.
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I always stop to look before crossing when on foot. Probably a good idea to come to a complete stop before proceeding on a bike as well. If you're good you can keep rolling and shoulder check to make sure you don't get right hooked. Make sure you don't ram a utility pole!
Be VERY wary of left turners approaching from the opposite direction. They frequently have a hairtrigger on the throttle ready to gun it in any gap in oncoming traffic. To the motorist, you rolling into the intersection from the sidewalk do not count as traffic, only background noise. They're strictly looking for cars. |
Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets
(Post 11792092)
I always stop to look before crossing when on foot. Probably a good idea to come to a complete stop before proceeding on a bike as well. If you're good you can keep rolling and shoulder check to make sure you don't get right hooked. Make sure you don't ram a utility pole!
Be VERY wary of left turners approaching from the opposite direction. They frequently have a hairtrigger on the throttle ready to gun it in any gap in oncoming traffic. To the motorist, you rolling into the intersection from the sidewalk do not count as traffic, only background noise. They're strictly looking for cars. Oh, and watch for uneven surfaces. So much to watch for you might as well be on foot. |
Yes, good point. Especially if the road to the right is, say 2 lanes of forward travel and one right turn and the forward travel lanes are occupied by high profile vehicles. Very few right turning vehicles in right turn lanes stop at the stop line. They can really surprise you if you're rolling in the x-walk in front of a couple of Escalades and a UPS truck. You won't see the dude in the Honda rolling in the right turn lane 'til you're right there on 'em. Honda dude won't see you 'til you're on his hood, either - assuming you're doing more than 4 mph.
I might add that these are HUGE concerns when riding in a lane or bike lane alignment. They only get MORE HUGE when you're riding in a crosswalk alignment. |
There's a stretch of road that I find intimidating on my commute. I'm normally on the sidewalk riding past it. I gear way down so I won't be tempted to go fast. I happen across one of these driveways that's very busy. I usually use a 'cover car' to keep away from the hair triggers turning left. I know they see the car, I'm crossing the driveway behind it.
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There is an intersection about a mile from my work where a 40 mph North-South road with 4 lanes of traffic and a shared center left-turn lane intersects a 30 mph E-W road with 2 traffic lanes and 2 right-turn lanes. The intersection has traffic signals. Crossing east in the crosswalk is almost unthinkably dangerous, even on foot. I was hit there last year by a left-turning van and have had numerous close calls there both before and since then. Coincidentally, my cousin operates a business next to this intersection. He says that his workers will not use the crosswalk there to get lunch anymore. They jump in their cars just to cross the street.
In the three years I have been commuting, I have reduced the frequency of occassions in which I have to lock up the brakes to avoid collisions. When I started out, I was riding about a mile on the sidewalk each way and was locking up the brakes twice a day on average. When I looked at it, I noticed that over 90% of my lockups happened while attempting to cross driveways on the sidewalk or to cross side streets in a crosswalk. When I changed my route to avoid this sidewalk and ride with traffic on a different, lower traffic road, my lockup rate dropped to once per week. Better bike lighting (blinding daytime front strobe) reduced it a bunch more. Some of the reduction was also probably due to my riding skills improving. I am currently down to about 1 lockup per month, and they are mostly at this one intersection. I pretty much have to approach this intersection from the south on the left sidewalk for about 100 yds and turn right at the light. I will typically wait on the sidewalk until I have a green light and walk light, and then attempt to cross in the crosswalk. Even with a bright white strobe on the back of my helmet, most cars will not look to the right before they make their right turns. I am not able to move out into the E-W traffic lane on a green light because of the constant stream of right-turning cars blocking the N-S crosswalk. Yelling at them doesn't seem to help and there is not enough room to get around them. I recently began heading west (opposite of the direction I need to go) on the grass alongside the E-W road until I could get in behind the traffic at the light, pull a u-turn into traffic and then proceed vehicularly in the traffic lane back eastward through the intersection. This had been working quite well until last week, when this grassy area was covered about a foot deep with plowed snow. I then began to head west before the intersection through parking lots and cross-country through some not so deep snow until I could come out on the cross street west of the intersection and again, pass through it using the traffic lane. Life is much better now that I am no longer using that crosswalk. |
I honestly can't believe there's a "debate" about this. Really? 824 posts in 33 pages? About sidewalks? Geez.
Sidewalk. |
Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd
(Post 10963533)
Cyclists who ride on sidewalks make it harder (in regard to motorists) on those of us who have sense enough to use the road.
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