wlaxer

Registration for bicycles? Wow. But that doesn't mean you should ride on the sidewalk, it just means that the city has found a new way to squeeze a little more money out of people.

elihu23

Yes it does, doesn't it? It sucks, but I can't say I'm surprised. Between the desperation of local governments for money and the focus these days on tracking everyone and everything, it seems inevitable. If you like the sci-fi/fantasy genre there is an interesting novel on the subject that reads like real-life in some respects. It's called The Traveler by John Twelvehawks. Meanwhile, riding on the sidewalk is a bad idea in any kind of really populated area, but in most of America no one (pedestrian) uses the sidewalk anyway. BTW, there are also valid concerns about cyclists hurting people--mainly pedestrians--and registration is a step towards addressing this.

gcottay

I still think this is a very simple issue.

1. Bikes belong on sidewalks only as a last resort. Yes, there are conditions where riding the road is a very bad idea for any rider and no alternative routes are available.
2. When on the sidewalk a rider should either reduce speed to a walk or expect bad things to happen.
3. If sidewalk riding is illegal and you are ticketed, pay the ticket.
4. All pedestrians no matter what they do have the right-of-way. No exceptions. Add some dogs, too. If that's too hard, see #4.
5. If you can't avoid annoying pedestrians or lack low-speed skills, get off and walk the bike.

elihu23

It seems that there is a whole debate between VC and other camps. I don't know that much about it--I ride my bike to work in a big city (okay The Big City), I enjoy it and I know what makes sense. I'm not a yuppie new resident and I've been commuting since 2005 or before most of the bike lanes were put in. The Scandinavian data makes sense. I've found that cycling is safer in the street and the best bike lanes are those that are in the street, not separate from it. Cyclists are a greater danger to one another and pedestrians than motorists are to them. There are too many Lance Armstrong wannabees. On the road, a cyclist knows where he/she fits into the food chain and acts accordingly, which is carefully--if they're smart. Cars are not inherently evil, only the internal combustion engine needs reform. Cyclists should not need to obey red lights in the same way as motorists, but these are separate issues. Sidewalks are for pedestrians and kids.

elihu23

Amen brother! Amen!

WolfsBane

Really surprised to see this topic still debated. It used to be common and required knowledge for anyone taking to riding a bicycle, though it has not been part of required knowledge by motorists for decades. Just comes to show the current state of affairs in education for motorists and cyclists in this country. Simple things such as:

1. Bicycle operators requiring to transit on the rightmost lane of the street unless taking a left hand turn.
2. Bicycle operation, (for the most part), being prohibited on side walks unless in case of emergencies.
3. If transiting on a side walk and approaching or overtaking pedestrians, Bicycle operators being required to dismount and walk the bicycle until clearing pedestrian traffic.
4. Bicycle operator being required to know and obey all applicable laws and rules of normal traffic on the road.
5. Bicycle operators being required to transit as part of the normal flow of traffic, and not as an entity apart.

There are several others...

It has been so long since these common sense rules and regulations were applied, let alone be enforced by most states. Obviously a part of the culture of motor vehicle operation as a primary means of transit that has permeated this country for so long. A great deal of knowledge has been lost regarding this. Even state and local civil engineers are in the dark.

I-Like-To-Bike

Thank goodness that YOU haven't forgotten about these long lost and forgotten "common sense rules and regulations." If it wern't for you, EVERYBODY would be ignorant about this "common and required knowledge for anyone taking to riding a bicycle."

Aussie_Al

Ok we should end the thread on this!

bernardmarx

+1

Paranoid.Guy

Sidewalks are only to be used by pedestrians, cyclists aren't typically allowed to use them. And avoiding pedestrians is sometimes a real burden. If you cycle on the roadway, you don't come across pedestrians very often. Yet roadway cycling is, in some situations or areas, very risky, and one might have to use the sidewalk. But, in that case, you have to avoid pedestrians...
It's much simpler when there are bicycle paths. Unfortunately for me, such paths don't exist in my city :-(

work4bike

Bicycle paths are a pain in the ass. You always (always, as in every freakin' time) gotta stop/yeild at intersections. You must observe a speed limit, even if not posted you must limit your legs in the interest of safety. And there's really no such thing as a bicycle path, that's part of the reason you must limit your speed. Just look at videos of bike paths in Amsterdam, does not look like the freedom I enjoy on my local roads.

I've been cycling on roads for over 20 years; I'm a very defensive rider and make much use of my mirror. Roads aren't that bad.

Rion

I'm guilty of only reading the first page, but I am against sidewalk riding for anyone over 16. I also think that cycling on the road should be part of phys-ed in highschool. The law in Toronto is that if you can ride on the sidewalk if your wheels are smaller than 24 inches. Sadly, there is a loophole; because of the wheel size, mopeds (electric or gas) are allowed on the sidewalk as long as your feet are on the pedals. That means that you frequently have people riding 20km/h down the crowded sidewalk and making left turns from the far right lane by using the crosswalk and switching from road to sidewalk. If this was happening in the suburbs I probably wouldn't mind, but in a crowded city where you can't walk 10 feet without passing someone, being able to ride on the sidewalk is a bad idea.

But on the other hand, I also don't agree with police who will give you a $110 ticket for riding in granny gear across the crosswalk because it's less dangerous to signal with your left hand, removing your left arm from your front brake in the process, and making a left turn. If I'm not mistaken, hitting a pedestrian constitutes reckless driving and gets you a $490 ticket, but because most sidewalk crashes involve bumping into someone and knocking them over and not sending them flying across an intersection, it's common place to both parties to to apologize and continue on their way, or for the cyclist to hop back on their bike and cycle through side streets. bicycles don't have license plates, so it's hard to find people who ARE criminally legible.

A friend of mine, who cycles on the sidewalk, was cycling at night and came across an intersection where the wheel chair ramp was narrower than usual and ended up smashing a curb at high speeds. popped her front tire, dented her rim, bent the fork, flew over her handlebars, hit her head, and slid across the pavement, She ended up having to walk 20 minutes to the party she was going to because she broke her phone in the crash and had no money for a payphone call. I've also been in an accident where a car was backing out of a driveway, saw me, stopped, and I ended up clipping the trailor hitch. nearly breaking every spoke on the right side of my front wheel, cracking a couple ribs when I hit the front wheel with my chest, and breaking my wrist when my hand got caught between the bar and the brake as I fell. I believe that none of these would have happened had my friend or I simply been riding on the street.

I've also noticed that when switching from sidewalk in the suburbs to street in the city, that I have a lot less "close calls" because I can take the lane, use bike lanes, and use bike trails through parks where pedestrians are expecting cyclists and act accordingly. I believe that there should be a speed limit on the sidewalk of 10-15km/h that way it stops other things such as skateboards, longboards, and rollerblades. Sorry if this is long winded, My friend's crash was last week, and mine was the only instance in my life where cycling put me in the hospital, and I wanted to add my opinion before the thread gets locked.

catmandew52

Where I live/ride part or the East-West bike path goes thru the city center. The posted bike path is on the city sidewalks. Why? Because if you ride on the road you will get hit, run-over or killed. So, you just ride at a very slow pace.
If I need to go North or South it gets tricky. Sidewalks or gravel shoulders. No bike path yet, but there is one proposd for around 2030 AD. Telegraph Rd. here in SE Mich is one of only three rds that allow me N-S access.
The only VC's you will see on Telegraph, are the ones about to die. They don't call it Bloody Telegraph for nothing. You can't share the road with drivers who truly believe (based on statements given to local LE's) that you were going too slow, so they had no other choice than to hit you. I'll ride the sidwalks thank you.

work4bike

So basically you don't ride? Not an option for me; I've lived in a lot of non-cycling towns, actually I've never lived in a cycling-friendly town, and thus have had some scary commutes. And now I'm supposedly living in the death capital of the U.S. for cyclists, but I still ride.

If it's really as bad as you say, which I doubt, then why don't you contact https://www.lmb.org/ and work with them to make improvements. Part of my riding style is to exercise my right on the road, but in a non-hostile manner, i.e. would never partcipate in a critical mass ride, but at the same time I don't ride on sidewalks, no matter how many motorists yell for me to get on the sidewalk. By riding on the sidewalk you have given the victory to ass-holes.

No Whey

Uh, yep. High speed on a sidewalk at night? That's pretty careless.
I hope she's okay and has learned from the experience.

Aussie_Al

wow thats nuts - some where in Florida - why do you think that is so?? (not trolling just curious)

work4bike

Here's some links: https://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...s-deaths_N.htm and https://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/04...-for-cyclists/

It's not that Florida has any worse road conditions than most other places, at least from my perspective, but I've been riding all over the U.S. for over 20 years, so maybe I'm just blind to it -- I can ride anywhere.

I see a lot of non-cyclists do crazy-stupid things in traffic, that's the primary cause based on my observations, albeit non-scientific. And of course since the weather is nice here there's more riding throughout the year. So between kids, homeless and mindless joy-riders they make up the most of the bike related accidents.

Every year I hear many stories just on the local news channel of cyclists being hit by a car.

catmandew52

I still ride, just ultra defensively. Sidewalk in the downtown area and for a mile north is the legal posted bike path. The route I am going to take to a specific destination basically determines which bike I will ride. If I know most of the trip is on the gravel shoulder or grass where the is no shoulder Ill take the MTB. Anywhere else I can use the road bike or hybrid.
The are a lot of proposed bike usage plans but they don't go into effect until somewhere around 2030, if at all. Most of my riding is on a 2 lane, no passing, road that is a heavy gravel hauler route. They can't move over to pass, and I doubt they could stop if they saw you in time( road is twisty and hilly). So, I'll just ride FRAP and be around for another day.

added: Once you are out of city center, you will almost never see anyone on the sidewalk anyway. This is SE Michigan where even 7 yr olds drive.
https://www.digtriad.com/news/article...se-In-Michigan


This is my main route, about 10:00 am, with relatively low traffic volume.

Laserman

I live less than a mile from Telegraph in the western 'burbs of Detroit and I have NEVER seen anyone trying to ride VC on Telegraph and frankly only a fool would try it.
Fortunately around here there are a lot of better alternatives for N-S travel and I have been as far north as Southfield and as far south as Flat Rock without having to travel more than a couple of miles on the sidewalks (where they even exist].
Given a choice I prefer riding on the roads but I will not compromise my safety because some pundit has observed some limited part of the world and decides to declare that the road is the only viable option.

catmandew52

Thank You.
I know two people in the downriver area who are car-free. Bicycles are their primary modes of transport. One of them is a vociferous proponent of VC. Neither will try to ride VC on Telegraph.

ChasH

This is the extent of my sidewalk riding in the past forty-odd years as an adult, and it has happened only recently now that I've got my hands on a fancy new MTB. I'm not saying I would NEVER, EVER do it in another situation but there would have to be a very good justification, not involving laziness or simple selfishness.

I like this thread. I know a bit about managing risk as a longtime motorcyclist and pilot (small aircraft) but I admit to becoming increasingly uncomfortable about riding a bicycle on the roads around here, even though we have quite a few cycle lanes in San Diego. This is partly, but only partly, why I'm getting into MTB'ing. Maybe I'm just over-reacting, after all much of the risk in cycling can also be managed (esp. with use of a mirror). My main fear, on a motorbike or in a plane or on a bicycle, is being taken out from behind. Being told by ATC "unidentified target at 6 o'clock, same heading, your altitude, closing rapidly" can bring you out in a cold sweat. Especially when followed by, "... now at 4 miles, heading and altitude unchanged". On a bicycle noone looks after you like this.

Thanks for the many well written and knowledgable posts in this thread. Even this old dog might learn a new trick or two .....

Eclectus

I mostly ride on the street/road, but if I'm in Overland Park, and rush-hour traffic is bumper-to-bumper, on Quivira Rd, I take the sidewalk. I don't think I'm going to be hit on the road, but I would totally mess up the traffic flow. In Wichita, riding with a Dinotte taillight, find that drivers have room to move over and pass me.

On the sidewalk, cross-intersection drivers may or may not stop before the crosswalk line. You have to be observant. Sometimes you can go ahead of them, sometimes you have to go behind them.

work4bike

I agree, I'm very concerned with my "six" and feel extrememly vulnerable without a mirror; to me it's an essential accessory.

Aussie_Al

Thanks John ..pretty much what I figured :-(

Stealthammer

Bicycles can be as dangerous to pedestrians as cars are to us. Sidewalks are for pedestrian traffic and tricycles. Bike trails are shared access for pedestrians and bicycles. Roads are for shared access for cars and bicycles. Simply rules. If you want to be respected on the roads, respect users of the sidewalks as well as the roads.

If a sidewalk needs to be redesignated as a bike path for safety reasons petition to get it changed or buy a car of paint to warn pedestrians that thatsection is shared use.

If anyone wants to complain about "defacing" public property, I suggest that it is simply a "non-violent" social protest against the non-responsive local government. I guarantee that most pedestrians will appreciate the warning rather that having a cyclist blast past unexpectedly.