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Cyclist on sidewalk runs over a little girl video)

Old 05-24-15, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mozad655
I think this is preciesly why you should always avoid sidewalks unless absolutely nessescary and even then only at extremely slow speed. This is basic code for cyclists and its illegal in my euro-country to ride on the sidewalk. But I've read several times of cyclists on this forum that do just that. It really isn't safe and this is why.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2a3_1432194442
Although the cyclist is far from guiltless, I mostly blame the mom. She clearly was not looking out for her kid. Had she been more vigilant, she would have seen that bike coming and told her daughter to stop.
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Old 05-24-15, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by baron von trail
Although the cyclist is far from guiltless, I mostly blame the mom. She clearly was not looking out for her kid. Had she been more vigilant, she would have seen that bike coming and told her daughter to stop.
Mostly blame the mom**********

Are people to be ever vigilant everyplace? Can we not have areas set aside as safe? This was a residential sidewalk, and mom had every right to assume it would be OK for her child to cross it on her own. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street. Do we now have to teach them to look both ways before going out the garden gate onto the sideWALK?

This is a very straightforward incident where 100% of the blame rests with the cyclist and ZERO can be assigned to anyone else.
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Old 05-24-15, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Mostly blame the mom**********

Are people to be ever vigilant everyplace? Can we not have areas set aside as safe? This was a residential sidewalk, and mom had every right to assume it would be OK for her child to cross it on her own. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street. Do we now have to teach them to look both ways before going out the garden gate onto the sideWALK?

This is a very straightforward incident where 100% of the blame rests with the cyclist and ZERO can be assigned to anyone else.
Yes
The dimwitted cyclist was able to see the mother exit her front gate, a potential obstruction. Did he slow down? He did not and then plowed into the little girl who was following her mother out to the car. Sidewalks are for low speed traffic, not for bicycles moving as fast as the cars in the street(for reference, watch the video again and notice that the bicycle is moving at pretty much the same speed as the car that is passing by at the same time)
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Old 05-24-15, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Mostly blame the mom**********

Are people to be ever vigilant everyplace? Can we not have areas set aside as safe? This was a residential sidewalk, and mom had every right to assume it would be OK for her child to cross it on her own. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street. Do we now have to teach them to look both ways before going out the garden gate onto the sideWALK?


This is a very straightforward incident where 100% of the blame rests with the cyclist and ZERO can be assigned to anyone else.

In a perfect world, every one would be walking on the sidewalk, and children can run on them "carefree", but these parents have learned that is not the case, and have to take some percentage of the blame for not being completely vigilant of their child's actions, especially in an outdoor setting. The bottom line, the child still ended up being hit by a careless and inconsiderate cyclist, who will hopefully be caught and receive the appropriate fines and punishment.
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Old 05-24-15, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by baron von trail
Although the cyclist is far from guiltless, I mostly blame the mom. She clearly was not looking out for her kid. Had she been more vigilant, she would have seen that bike coming and told her daughter to stop.
This video was taken in the UK where cycling on sidewalks(pavements) IS in fact illegal. Unlike North America, this is a national standard, local jurisdictions are not allowed to make this decision. So,the mother had no reasonable expectation that there would be a cyclist approaching at high speed and was not being careless in any way.
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Old 05-24-15, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
This video was taken in the UK where cycling on sidewalks(pavements) IS in fact illegal. Unlike North America, this is a national standard, local jurisdictions are not allowed to make this decision. So,the mother had no reasonable expectation that there would be a cyclist approaching at high speed and was not being careless in any way.
Numerous activities here in the US are illegal as well, but that does not stop people from doing them, or letting parents off the hook in not being completely vigilant of a small child's activities in an outdoor setting. The parents were quick to respond AFTER the child was hit.
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Old 05-24-15, 08:27 AM
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Ran this by an insurance adjuster here locally and he said that he discussed it with one other and a crash investigator. He said that fault would be 50:50 or no fault found (based on U.S. law). Their reasoning is that the little girl running out from behind the wall could have just as easily had a similar result with almost any normal and expected use of the sidewalk. That if she had run out like that in front of someone walking that the walker could easily have not had time to react and either kicked her with a normal walking gait or tripped over her likely causing greater injury than she sustained from the bicycle rider. Similar for someone pushing a stroller, jogging, jogging with a stroller or any other number of normal and expected uses. The speed of the bicycle rider was immaterial as no speed would be slow enough to have provided adequate reaction time given how quickly the girl suddenly appeared.

If it were fought out in court it could easily go against the parents for not paying proper attention to their child in a dangerous area. OTOH, if the child were on the sidewalk and jumping around erratically side to side but she and her actions were visible to other users of the sidewalk then the other users would likely be at fault.
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Old 05-24-15, 08:28 AM
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^^How many children do you have yourself?
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Old 05-24-15, 08:41 AM
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The cyclist is a thoughtless jerk. The original post is also way off base as well. There are times when riding on the sidewalk is legal and a prudent thing to do if one uses some common sense.
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Old 05-24-15, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
Mostly blame the mom**********
yes

Are people to be ever vigilant everyplace? Can we not have areas set aside as safe? This was a residential sidewalk, and mom had every right to assume it would be OK for her child to cross it on her own. We teach children to look both ways before crossing the street. Do we now have to teach them to look both ways before going out the garden gate onto the sideWALK?
Seriously? You don't look to see who is coming when you walk out into the sidewalk? Do you just charge out your front door and bowl over some poor old lady who may be walking by?

Parents need to teach their children and not be distracted when the kid is running behind them in a busy city.

This is a very straightforward incident where 100% of the blame rests with the cyclist and ZERO can be assigned to anyone else.
nonsense. I see this all the time when I ride past the soccer fields. Kids bolting out across the bike path never bothering to look--stupid adults do it too.
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Old 05-24-15, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by trailangel
^^How many children do you have yourself?
How would that be relevant?
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Old 05-24-15, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
Ran this by an insurance adjuster here locally and he said that he discussed it with one other and a crash investigator. He said that fault would be 50:50 or no fault found (based on U.S. law). Their reasoning is that the little girl running out from behind the wall could have just as easily had a similar result with almost any normal and expected use of the sidewalk. That if she had run out like that in front of someone walking that the walker could easily have not had time to react and either kicked her with a normal walking gait or tripped over her likely causing greater injury than she sustained from the bicycle rider. Similar for someone pushing a stroller, jogging, jogging with a stroller or any other number of normal and expected uses. The speed of the bicycle rider was immaterial as no speed would be slow enough to have provided adequate reaction time given how quickly the girl suddenly appeared.

If it were fought out in court it could easily go against the parents for not paying proper attention to their child in a dangerous area. OTOH, if the child were on the sidewalk and jumping around erratically side to side but she and her actions were visible to other users of the sidewalk then the other users would likely be at fault.
None of this takes into account that in this particular situation the cyclist was riding illegally.It is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in the UK where this happened. He also saw the mother walk out onto the sidewalk and failed to slow down. Had he slowed down he would have been farther away when the child walked out and would have had time to react. The cyclist was in the wrong on 2 counts. This was NOT a dangerous area it was a residential sidewalk

Last edited by alcjphil; 05-24-15 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 05-24-15, 09:34 AM
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Maybe if they didn't have those fence-like structures in front of the house, the cyclist would have seen the small child, or at least been 100% at fault for the incident.
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Old 05-24-15, 09:46 AM
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"Learn your rights."
But what be the duty of law enforcement? They won't be credible to defend your rights, when there be a dispute.
Even once the law enforcement being there.
Writing up a report.

Last edited by molten; 05-24-15 at 10:02 AM. Reason: add word
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Old 05-24-15, 10:01 AM
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Let me reverse what the original topic be:
The trouble within an area of soCal be of pedestrians being IN THE BIKE LANE.
Especially of joggers running in the center of the bike lane.
This has been going on for decades; longer that I been a member.
Going on, as 'triathalons' being local events -- such events has even influenced those novices more.
Because the 'triathalon' event that the city or whatever has held on the public road, where the Bike Lanes be: that sticks within the mindsets of the novice & serious amateur spectators. Who attended the event and/or saw images to it.
Law enforcement won't cite such, as the municipalities are making $ from the event. As gov. wants to keep that positive image via not citing ANY jogger at all. Within their location.

Municipalities are hard to sue; hence government. Had there be such a case from Jogger vs. ___. As the jogger attempted to sue the municipality. For the jogger's neglect of being in the Bike Lane. Would Cyclists group up, so to defend their rights to the Bike Lane?

Last edited by molten; 05-24-15 at 10:04 AM. Reason: wording
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Old 05-24-15, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by baron von trail
Although the cyclist is far from guiltless, I mostly blame the mom. She clearly was not looking out for her kid. Had she been more vigilant, she would have seen that bike coming and told her daughter to stop.
Ridiculous, ignorant statement.

Sounds like you're the type that would put your kid on a short leash - literally speaking - just so you're "protecting him/her" 100.0% of the time. Where did we get this stupid expectation of parents as "omnipotent blame magnets"?

As if parenting wasn't stressful enough already, we'd be looking up and down and left and right 24/7 in case something as random as an irresponsible speeding cyclist came along. Umbrella parenting was probably born of this idiotic idea that parents "shoulda coulda woulda" done something if an accident that had a 1% chance of happening, happened. Why not check the sky for falling meteorites too?
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Old 05-24-15, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
As you seen in the video, that wasn't the case......if you are a parent, take note: teach your children to be equally cautious even on sidewalks, just as you would about streets.
If you could read, and apparently you can't, I have 4 kids. A cyclist riding on the sidewalk should be looking out for the safety of ANY CHILDREN. Joining to make a half assed statement is ridiculous. Are you the cyclist who was the jackass???

And whoever said the mother was to blame,...your a self centered idiot. This is a child, they have full rights to walk on the sidewalk, as they please, and be safe. You all cry about car drivers not caring about you being on the road, then couldn't care about a child who has the right to be on the sidewalk? Hypocritical morons,...

As for children running into bike lanes,...yes, the parents are to blame. But I see some are trying to compare apples to grapefruits to shift blame - pathetic.
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Old 05-24-15, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CrankyOne
Ran this by an insurance adjuster here locally and he said that he discussed it with one other and a crash investigator. He said that fault would be 50:50 or no fault found (based on U.S. law). Their reasoning is that the little girl running out from behind the wall could have just as easily had a similar result with almost any normal and expected use of the sidewalk. That if she had run out like that in front of someone walking that the walker could easily have not had time to react and either kicked her with a normal walking gait or tripped over her likely causing greater injury than she sustained from the bicycle rider. Similar for someone pushing a stroller, jogging, jogging with a stroller or any other number of normal and expected uses. The speed of the bicycle rider was immaterial as no speed would be slow enough to have provided adequate reaction time given how quickly the girl suddenly appeared.

If it were fought out in court it could easily go against the parents for not paying proper attention to their child in a dangerous area. OTOH, if the child were on the sidewalk and jumping around erratically side to side but she and her actions were visible to other users of the sidewalk then the other users would likely be at fault.
Maybe it was the way the video was filmed, but the accident did look pretty bad. Thankfully she just looked a little banged up but fine.

"Not paying proper attention to their child in a dangerous area"? Maybe they should tie her to her bed, because she could slip on the wet floor in the bathroom or burn her hand on a stove in the kitchen or get electrocuted on a wall socket in her living room.

"Likely causing greater injury"? Are you kidding me? Sounds like total BS.

While the possibility is there, I very much doubt a fast walker could likely have caused greater injury than a speeding bicycle. No more than a speeding bicycle could likely have caused greater injury than a speeding car.

This is important because the cyclist is not at fault for running into the girl - he is at fault for going at an unreasonable speed on a walkway for PRECISELY this reason. Maybe he might have hit her even if he going at a jogging pace, but the probability of a catastrophe would be considerably lessened. Isn't that why we have lower speed limits in residential areas vs highways?

People are NOT going to expect a speeding bicycle on a walkway - no responsible parent would ever allow a child to run onto the road because of speeding vehicles. The same should not apply to walkways.

Last edited by keyven; 05-24-15 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 05-24-15, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fitftw
Maybe if they didn't have those fence-like structures in front of the house, the cyclist would have seen the small child, or at least been 100% at fault for the incident.
Maybe if the cyclist had been riding on the road where he was legally obliged to be this wouldn't have happened. People living on a residential street in a country where sidewalk riding is not legal have a right to expect that there will be no high speed traffic when they step out of their front walk
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Old 05-24-15, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
Yes, complacent parents, and no I am not kidding. The parents have learned a lesson in that even sidewalks have their dangers, just like the streets.
And I vehemently believe that our urban roads, streets, paths, and sidewalks should be safe enough that the risk of an inattentive kid being hit is astronomically low. This would, of course, require increased education, increased enforcement, and equitable liability law (see the majority of developed nations for examples of how this is done).
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Old 05-24-15, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fitftw
Maybe if they didn't have those fence-like structures in front of the house, the cyclist would have seen the small child, or at least been 100% at fault for the incident.
So let me get this straight: we Brits should so arrange the garden fence in front of our homes that we ensure that our children do not risk impeding a cyclist who is breaking the law. Since he was so doing, he was 100% at fault for the incident, because, if he had been obeying the law by riding on the road, he would not have hit the child.

As for the accident investigator saying that, according to US law, the responsibility would have been shared equally, thank god we don't have that kind of law in the UK, because it would be an argument of mind-boggling stupidity
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Old 05-24-15, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by baron von trail
nonsense. I see this all the time when I ride past the soccer fields. Kids bolting out across the bike path never bothering to look--stupid adults do it too.
It seems to have excaped your notice that a UK pavement (sidewalk to you former colonials) is not a bike path. It is a footway.
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Old 05-24-15, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by atbman

As for the accident investigator saying that, according to US law, the responsibility would have been shared equally, thank god we don't have that kind of law in the UK, because it would be an argument of mind-boggling stupidity
I doubt the accident investigator was apprised of all the facts. I believe that even in the US if the cyclist had been riding on a sidewalk in a jurisdiction where it was illegal he would have been judged to be totally at fault
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Old 05-24-15, 01:55 PM
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If a cyclist rides on the sidewalk and hits a pedestrian, in the usa, the cyclist is 100% responsible. It's against the law for an adult to ride a bike on the sidewalk in the USA.
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Old 05-24-15, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tds101
If a cyclist rides on the sidewalk and hits a pedestrian, in the usa, the cyclist is 100% responsible. It's against the law for an adult to ride a bike on the sidewalk in the USA.
Unfortunately this isn't true. The US, like Canada where I live is a hodgepodge of jurisdictions. There are multiple state/provincial and municipal regulations, some of which permit riding on sidewalks in some areas

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