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  1. #1
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    Why “Share The Road” Is Gone in Delaware

    Why ?Share The Road? Is Gone in Delaware | Bike Delaware Inc.

    Interesting points. Yes I know it's almost 2 mths ago but I don't see any topic on this. Should other states follow suit?

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    Senior Member ro-monster's Avatar
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    Yes. However, they should eliminate the word "may." The signs should just say Bikes Use Full Lane.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have never been a big fan of "Share the Road." It just never seemed to mean anything...

    For traffic engineers, with our many years of experience with traffic control devices, “Share The Road” is yet another example of “feel good” signage that placates an interest group but has no safety benefit and adds useless and distracting clutter to the visual landscape.

    For cyclists in Delaware (and elsewhere), “Share The Road” had long been interpreted as a sign primarily directed at motorists. Cyclists thought it meant something like “Motorists: be cool.” But for many motorists, “Share The Road” is often interpreted as a sign primarily directed at cyclists and meant something more like “Bicyclists: don’t slow me down.” But we finally realized (after years of pointless yelling back and forth between cyclists and motorists, both yelling “Share The Road” at each other!), that “Share The Road” not only doesn’t help, it actually contributes to conflict and confusion.
    - See more at: Why ?Share The Road? Is Gone in Delaware | Bike Delaware Inc.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro-monster View Post
    Yes. However, they should eliminate the word "may." The signs should just say Bikes Use Full Lane.
    Good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    Why ?Share The Road? Is Gone in Delaware | Bike Delaware Inc.

    Interesting points. Yes I know it's almost 2 mths ago but I don't see any topic on this. Should other states follow suit?
    It's actually been 1½-2 years. There is a topic here:
    Delaware does away with "Share the Road"


    I didn't see much benefit from the signs, and agreed with the policy to stop spending time and money installing them. I also agree there are bigger issues affecting bicyclists, and would not have chosen to spend time and money removing most of them:

    1st State BIKES: An unjust war on "Share The Road"

    Your experience may be very different, depending on local laws and local drivers.

  6. #6
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    I agree, the signs are put there to attempt to change the behavior of motorists, but many of them seem to interpret them as "Yeah, bicyclists - share the road - that means GET OUTTA MY WAY."
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

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    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyven View Post
    Why ?Share The Road? Is Gone in Delaware | Bike Delaware Inc.

    Interesting points. Yes I know it's almost 2 mths ago but I don't see any topic on this. Should other states follow suit?
    Maryland as a state, leglislatively, did away with the wording in 2012. But the actual physical replacement of the signs, is up to the county and city governments. Another way Maryland 'passes the buck' of responsibility. My county has replaced the signs with 'Bicycle May Use Full Lane'. I use the full lane regardless.

    Maryland leads, but counties hesitate on new bike signs - Greater Greater Washington

    Quote Originally Posted by ro-monster View Post
    Yes. However, they should eliminate the word "may." The signs should just say Bikes Use Full Lane.
    AGREED!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by genec View Post
    Yeah, I have never been a big fan of "Share the Road." It just never seemed to mean anything...

    - See more at: Why ?Share The Road? Is Gone in Delaware | Bike Delaware Inc.
    AGREED AGAIN!!!! It was more like a parent telling their kid(s), to eat their peas and carrots. Because, There was no 'or else' context to it. So a motorist could ignore it, if the PROBABLY wanted.
    Quote Originally Posted by English3Speed View Post
    It's actually been 1½-2 years. There is a topic here:
    Delaware does away with "Share the Road"


    I didn't see much benefit from the signs, and agreed with the policy to stop spending time and money installing them. I also agree there are bigger issues affecting bicyclists, and would not have chosen to spend time and money removing most of them:

    1st State BIKES: An unjust war on "Share The Road"

    Your experience may be very different, depending on local laws and local drivers.
    That link was a good read.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    I agree, the signs are put there to attempt to change the behavior of motorists, but many of them seem to interpret them as "Yeah, bicyclists - share the road - that means GET OUTTA MY WAY."
    AGREE AGAIN!!!
    Last edited by Chris516; 05-30-15 at 12:41 PM.

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    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    It makes little difference either way. We began converting to the "may use full lane" signs several years ago. We've a bunch of them where I ride and there's very minimal difference in driver behavior. Maybe instead of getting buzzed once every 100 miles it's now every 125 miles.

    The reality is that someone with a xxxhp car that can get up to speed quickly and can easily go 100 mph doesn't like constantly being slowed and delayed by someone doing 15 in a 45. And perhaps especially when they see similarly dressed people blowing stop signs and red lights fairly frequently. No matter that the person delaying them may be the most law abiding rider out there, drivers still lump all MAPILs together, especially when they're irritated with being delayed again and again and again.

    No country that I'm aware of has been successful with bicycles and motor vehicles sharing the road.
    "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." - ATL Urbanist

  9. #9
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    It makes little difference either way. We began converting to the "may use full lane" signs several years ago. We've a bunch of them where I ride and there's very minimal difference in driver behavior. Maybe instead of getting buzzed once every 100 miles it's now every 125 miles.

    The reality is that someone with a xxxhp car that can get up to speed quickly and can easily go 100 mph doesn't like constantly being slowed and delayed by someone doing 15 in a 45. And perhaps especially when they see similarly dressed people blowing stop signs and red lights fairly frequently. No matter that the person delaying them may be the most law abiding rider out there, drivers still lump all MAPILs together, especially when they're irritated with being delayed again and again and again.

    No country that I'm aware of has been successful with bicycles and motor vehicles sharing the road.
    Define 'being delayed'. Because, A motorist behind another motorist that is going 25mph in 25mph zone doesn't honk at the first motorist. But a motorist in a 25mph zone and behind a cyclist who is going 25mph. Still honks at the cyclist.
    Last edited by Chris516; 06-01-15 at 02:17 AM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Define 'being delayed'. Because, A motorist behind another motorist that is going 25mph in 25mph zone doesn't honked at the first motorist. But a motorist in a 25mph zone and behind a cyclist who is going 25mph. Still honks at the cyclist.
    Someone who does that is a jerk and there are a few of them on the road, about 1% of drivers. In reality though this is a very rare instance compared to motorists being slowed to 10 or 15 mph in a 30 or 45 mph zone.

    The Netherlands (and increasingly other countries) deal with these by designating some streets as bicycle streets. These have 13 or 18 mph speed limits and often motor vehicles are not allowed to pass bicycle riders. These are all also local access only (e.g., not a through street) which makes it much more palatable to drivers to drive so slow because it is only for a very short distance at the beginning or end of their journey. Any road that is not a bicycle street has a bikeway (nearly always a protected bikeway) so bicycle riders do not delay motor vehicles (and perhaps better, bicycle riders are not delayed by motor vehicles).
    Last edited by CrankyOne; 05-30-15 at 04:24 PM.
    "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." - ATL Urbanist

  11. #11
    Señior Member ItsJustMe's Avatar
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    The "slowing drivers down" think makes me somewhat amused. If you added up delays I cause to every driver on my route I bet it's less than 10 seconds, and actually zero because they make it up as soon as they're past me, by catching up to the car they were behind in the first place anyway.

    OTOH, cars slow me down by at least a minute, often 5 or more minutes, on every commute.
    Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    Define 'being delayed'. Because, A motorist behind another motorist that is going 25mph in 25mph zone doesn't honked at the first motorist. But a motorist in a 25mph zone and behind a cyclist who is going 25mph. Still honks at the cyclist.
    You don't drive do you?
    I'm on the road 8 to 10 hours a day and your statement doesn't reflect reality. Impatient people will react badly to anyone or anything inconveniencing them. Just the other day I saw a motorist flip off and blow by a work site flagged.

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    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    The "slowing drivers down" think makes me somewhat amused. If you added up delays I cause to every driver on my route I bet it's less than 10 seconds, and actually zero because they make it up as soon as they're past me, by catching up to the car they were behind in the first place anyway.

    OTOH, cars slow me down by at least a minute, often 5 or more minutes, on every commute.
    LOL True, but now both cars are moving at 45 or so... or at least some speed higher than "behind that damn bicycle..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    The "slowing drivers down" think makes me somewhat amused. If you added up delays I cause to every driver on my route I bet it's less than 10 seconds, and actually zero because they make it up as soon as they're past me, by catching up to the car they were behind in the first place anyway.

    OTOH, cars slow me down by at least a minute, often 5 or more minutes, on every commute.
    That's pretty much my experience too. Many times I have counted up the seconds motorists were delayed behind me and compared those seconds to the minutes I was delayed by them, just to have a chuckle. The average speed of a car over its lifetime in the US is about 24 mph, which isn't far from the average speed of a fit cyclist. There are big differences in peak speeds, but who's riding on the freeway?

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    (I have not read the Y-T link; only reply to the comments as of yet)
    As I am in the same area as genec --- the unpredictable results of who "Use Full Lane" in San Diego > depends on the body profile of that cyclist.
    Many San Diego road cyclists are JEALOUS of those cyclists having the better body profile on upper end bikes, who "Use Full Lane." Be there no "Use (of) Full Lane" done of the innocent cyclist, those cars (driven by San Diego cyclists) will only invade INTO that bike lane. As retaliation.
    In San Diego, with lower end bikes: those with that controversial body profile are consistently judged as "druggies."
    San Diego is a very pre-judgmental location. As cyclists are judged a far distance ahead IF SEEN AT ALL.
    Last edited by molten; 05-30-15 at 08:46 PM. Reason: clarification

  16. #16
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    Someone who does that is a jerk and there are a few of them on the road, about 1% of drivers. In reality though this is a very rare instance compared to motorists being slowed to 10 or 15 mph in a 30 or 45 mph zone.

    The Netherlands (and increasingly other countries) deal with these by designating some streets as bicycle streets. These have 13 or 18 mph speed limits and often motor vehicles are not allowed to pass bicycle riders. These are all also local access only (e.g., not a through street) which makes it much more palatable to drivers to drive so slow because it is only for a very short distance at the beginning or end of their journey. Any road that is not a bicycle street has a bikeway (nearly always a protected bikeway) so bicycle riders do not delay motor vehicles (and perhaps better, bicycle riders are not delayed by motor vehicles).
    They are not being slowed. They can either, get in the passing lane, or cross the double-yellow line. To be able to pass. As for the creation of bicycle-only streets, I applaud that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
    The "slowing drivers down" think makes me somewhat amused. If you added up delays I cause to every driver on my route I bet it's less than 10 seconds, and actually zero because they make it up as soon as they're past me, by catching up to the car they were behind in the first place anyway.

    OTOH, cars slow me down by at least a minute, often 5 or more minutes, on every commute.
    Cars will slow me down at times. But, What I don't do, is behave in a way analogous to demanding they get off the road. Because, We all have places to go, people to see, and things to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    You don't drive do you?
    I'm on the road 8 to 10 hours a day and your statement doesn't reflect reality. Impatient people will react badly to anyone or anything inconveniencing them. Just the other day I saw a motorist flip off and blow by a work site flagged.
    For both medical, and personal, reasons. I don't drive. I actually feel safer, on my bike. Than I do in a car. Even though I don't have a 'cage' around me.

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    (no sic, no exagg to this message):
    Go to San Diego --- motorists (as many of them also are cyclists themselves) are so crazy, that be you do your behavior to them. They will RETALLIATE. If you're lucky, only threaten you verbally -- and not remember of your description via bike/body.
    Even the p.d. will side with them, as the motor vehicle brings $ to the city/county/state.
    Have fun (esp) in San Diego; and likely other further soCal areas -- testing your mindset.

  18. #18
    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    They are not being slowed. They can either,..., or cross the double-yellow line. To be able to pass.
    That would be illegal. And here a $340 ticket (plus fees and court costs). Not to mention that in most cases the double yellow is there for a reason such as not being able to see approaching traffic over a hill.

    I am frequently slowed by a bicycle rider on a road where I have no legal and often no safe options but to sit behind them going 10 mph. It's usually not a big issue when it's one person but sometimes this will happen several times during one trip and that can get pretty irritating.
    "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." - ATL Urbanist

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    That would be illegal. And here a $340 ticket (plus fees and court costs). Not to mention that in most cases the double yellow is there for a reason such as not being able to see approaching traffic over a hill.

    I am frequently slowed by a bicycle rider on a road where I have no legal and often no safe options but to sit behind them going 10 mph. It's usually not a big issue when it's one person but sometimes this will happen several times during one trip and that can get pretty irritating.
    Would you wanna be ez in passing that "one rider" ?
    Or be ez only --- when it be a bunch together, that will stand up together for themselves, if someone within that bunch of cyclists gets sideswiped or knocked down?

  20. #20
    24-Speed Machine Chris516's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    That would be illegal. And here a $340 ticket (plus fees and court costs). Not to mention that in most cases the double yellow is there for a reason such as not being able to see approaching traffic over a hill.

    I am frequently slowed by a bicycle rider on a road where I have no legal and often no safe options but to sit behind them going 10 mph. It's usually not a big issue when it's one person but sometimes this will happen several times during one trip and that can get pretty irritating.
    It is legal in Maryland.

    TheWashCycle: In Maryland, the 3-foot passing law confuses everybody

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    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
    The article you posted says that it is illegal but that they sponsored a bill to make crossing the yellow lines legal. It does not appear that the bill passed (and I would be extremely surprised if it did since there is a very good reason that cars are not allowed to cross double yellow, namely the danger of head-on collisions with oncoming traffic).
    "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." - ATL Urbanist

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    The article you posted says that it is illegal but that they sponsored a bill to make crossing the yellow lines legal. It does not appear that the bill passed (and I would be extremely surprised if it did since there is a very good reason that cars are not allowed to cross double yellow, namely the danger of head-on collisions with oncoming traffic).
    But it is typically legal to drive left of center to go around an "obstruction". Unless there is a explicit exception of what may not be considered an "obstruction" or that it must be stationary, one may argue a cyclist moving significantly below the speed of normal traffic is an "obstruction" and one may drive left of center to go around them, if safe to do so, regardless of lane markings.

    http://www.baltimorespokes.org/artic...30426172616876

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    Senior Member CrankyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
    But it is typically legal to drive left of center to go around an "obstruction". Unless there is a explicit exception of what may not be considered an "obstruction" or that it must be stationary, one may argue a cyclist moving significantly below the speed of normal traffic is an "obstruction" and one may drive left of center to go around them, if safe to do so, regardless of lane markings.

    http://www.baltimorespokes.org/artic...30426172616876
    Good luck with that in court. If you get a really sympathetic judge you might get by with it but I think most judges would uphold the violation. I think the only way a bicycle can be considered an obstruction in this sense is if the rider and bike are on the ground waiting for an ambulance. Besides the legal issue is the perhaps more important issue that the reason for double yellow is most often due to danger of oncoming traffic so most drivers don't want to cross them anyway nor should they.
    "Trying to cure traffic congestion by adding more capacity is like trying to cure obesity by loosening your belt." - ATL Urbanist

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    Good luck with that in court. If you get a really sympathetic judge you might get by with it but I think most judges would uphold the violation. I think the only way a bicycle can be considered an obstruction in this sense is if the rider and bike are on the ground waiting for an ambulance. Besides the legal issue is the perhaps more important issue that the reason for double yellow is most often due to danger of oncoming traffic so most drivers don't want to cross them anyway nor should they.
    On a daily basis I observe drivers going around pedestrians, cyclists, postal vehicles, garbage trucks, utility vehicles, parking enforcement, and agricultural equipment in "no passing" zones, and that's including police vehicles with "drivers". The odds of needing to argue it in court are virtually nil unless a cop decides it was done in a dangerous manner.

  25. #25
    genec genec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyOne View Post
    Good luck with that in court. If you get a really sympathetic judge you might get by with it but I think most judges would uphold the violation. I think the only way a bicycle can be considered an obstruction in this sense is if the rider and bike are on the ground waiting for an ambulance. Besides the legal issue is the perhaps more important issue that the reason for double yellow is most often due to danger of oncoming traffic so most drivers don't want to cross them anyway nor should they.
    If you cannot make a judgement regarding the immediate dangers to you as a motorist crossing a double line while passing a narrow cyclist, I dare say you should not be driving.

    BTW about the only way a cop is going to issue a ticket to a motorist crossing said double yellow, while passing a cyclist, is if said motorist gets into a collision... in which case the motorist deserves said ticket and more.

    Now if you are attempting to cross a double yellow to pass a whole herd of cyclists all at once... well frankly you probably deserve a ticket in that instance too...

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