79pmooney

On another forum a guy into both talked about the attendees at cycle shows, both bicycle and motorcycle. The difference? The bike crowd had a lot of misshapen shoulders. In the motorcycle crowd were wheelchair users. And all knew of fellows who had died.

Another thought. Routine spills/slides. No big deal with a 20 pound bike between your legs. Rather different if your bike weighs >600 pounds.

Ben

ro-monster

It's pretty rare for the rider to not separate from the motorcycle in a spill unless it's at very low speed. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone sliding with the motorcycle still between their legs. And if the rider is wearing proper safety gear, including a spine protector, most walk away from the crash so long as they don’t collide with any objects.

kelsodeez

i am a motorcyclist and a cyclist. i feel much safer on my motorcycle because i am able to control what is in front of me to an extent, whereas when i am on my bicycle, most threats are coming from behind me, which i have little to no input in the avoidance of a collision.

with that being said, i have always been absolutely flabbergasted at the fact that in cycling, you descend down a hill at the same speed you would on a motorcycle but dressed in lycra, so basically naked, a joke of a helmet and fingerless gloves. not to mention exposed ankles and a smaller contact patch on the tires. motorcyclists will berate you if you dont have a jacket with armor, a full face helmet, gauntlet gloves and boots.

Chris516

Good point on both.

10 Wheels

Motorcycles were Safe for me with 28 years of riding. No crashes.

The 700 X 23 tires in a road crack caused my bicycle crash, brain and eye damage with surgery.

CrankyOne

Low risk except that 40% of all cyclist fatalities are vehicular cyclists hit from behind with only 1% of these cyclists OUI.

CrankyOne

Depends on where you ride. Riding safely on the road I think motorcycles are safer. Most studies show motorcycles as about twice as dangerous as riding a bicycle on the road but much of that danger is likely motorcyclists taking greater risks.

However, riding a bicycle on a properly designed protected bikeway is much safer than riding a bicycle or motorcycle on the road.

Going from memory (fatalities per billion km):

Plane: 0.01
Train: 0.05
Bicycle (NL): 7
Car (EU): 10
Bicycle (EU): 12
Car (US): 21
Bicycle (US): 75
Motorcycle (US): 140

I-Like-To-Bike

Where did you find the evidence about the "vehicular cyclist" status and sobriety of the hit from behind cyclists? Do you assume that anybody hit from behind must be by your own definition a "vehicular cyclist"? Are there any credible stats supporting these assertions or did you make them up?

I-Like-To-Bike

Maybe in S.F.; not necessarily in other locales.

dynodonn 

Both motorcycle and bicycle have their pros and cons when it comes to safety, I prefer a bicycle due to it's lower speed, and my having more time to access on what is going on around me in the urban landscape that I ride in.
I've crashed several times on both a motorcycle and bicycle, for me, the bicycle crashes were far less dramatic.

bikecrate

Risk sometimes is a matter of perception. I used to work with someone who rode a motorcycle to work everyday. Personally, I think, riding a motorcycle in this area is nuts. When he found out I like to bicycle he couldn't believe I actually took it on the road. He thought I was crazy.

dynodonn 

In the majority of my motorcycle spills/crashes, I can still see my motorcycle tumbling on ahead of me, and on my very first spill/crash on a motorcycle, I quickly learned how inadequate my clothing was for preventing or minimizing a road rash.

mconlonx

I've been into and regularly riding motorcycles than bicycles in my lifetime. By years and especially mileage.

This. Especially the ability to place yourself in traffic -- akin to "taking the lane" with a bicycle -- and the ability to out-accelerate most other road users.

Data point: misshapen shoulder due to motorcycle crashes. I've crashed more, and more severely on motorcycles than I have on bicycles. But I've put a lot more mileage on motorcycles than on bicycles.

And all this. I'm an ATGATT (all the gear, all the time) kind of motorcycle rider, so I ride with a full suit which includes hard/soft armor in the shoulders, elbows, and knees, helmet, gloves, boots...

The one factor regarding motorcycles is that usually a crash happens at a much higher speed. And because cyclists, motor- or bi-, are basically "unprotected road users" the higher speeds involved in motorcycle crashes generally lead to higher incidences of injury and death, greater injury severity. Safety gear notwithstanding. I've suffered road rash and a minor concussion in a few bicycle crashes; broken ribs, concussion, soft tissue shoulder damage, part of a thumb ground away, broken finger, sprained ankle, knee, and wrist due to various motorcycle accidents.

Motor vehicle drivers tend to "not see" me on a bicycle or motorcycle at nearly equal rates...

enigmaT120

I feel safer on my motorcycle than on my bicycle. But I'm probably not. US DOT fatality rates per mile show bicyclists are about 6 times more likely per mile traveled to die than somebody in a car. Motorcyclists are about 30 times more likely to die per mile than somebody in a car.

Yet my wife complains about me riding 20 miles on my bicycle and 80 on a bus (lots safer than a car) rather than the full hundred mile commute on my motorcycle.

Chris516

While I have had several brain surgeries for things I was born with. When I was on my dad's motorcycle(when he had one 30+yrs. ago), I always felt a little uneasy on it. So, When I got my (road)racing bike. I felt more in control. Thankfully, I have always been perpendicular instead of parallel. To a crack/bump in the road.

mconlonx

Riding pillion on a motorcycle and being in control of one are two very different experiences. As a passenger, I liken it to being on a roller coaster, which I do not like. As an operator of a motorcycle, I very much like the experience, as much or more than riding a bicycle.

I-Like-To-Bike

Has anybody informed John Forester, the Vehicular Cycling guru and his acolytes that at leastn"40% of all cyclist fatalities are vehicular cyclists"? Given that vehicular cyclists make up only a tiny slice of the cycling population this is a shocking revelation, doncha think?

CrankyOne

It is indeed. I'm still in shock. Who'd a thunk that playing dodge car with a bunch of random people wielding 4000 lb weapons could be dangerous.

kickstart

Agreed, Motorcycles and bicycles have been my primary form of transportation for most of my life. The sensations of being a passenger have absolutely no relevance to being the operator.

dynodonn 

This can be a double edge sword....... depending on the one's skills and experience, it can either avert danger or place one squarely into it. I have had several friends and acquaintances meet their demise due to their willingness to realize a motorcycle's acceleration potential.

enigmaT120

They aren't all vehicular cyclists. That number is just the cyclists that were run down from behind. At least one in my county in 2012 was on a wide highway shoulder when his killer decided to pass some cars on the right. So anybody using a normal bike lane and run down from behind is included in that 40 per cent. So would cyclists who hug the road shoulder.

no motor?

I was a biker for 15 years and many many miles before I resumed bicycling, and a few of my biker friends resumed bicycling at about the same time. We all felt incredibly vulnerable and at risk while bicycling when compared to motorcycling.

prooftheory

Are we calculating risk of death/injury per mile or risk of death/injury per hour?

I-Like-To-Bike

I am sure you are correct and that the poster making the statements about percentages of vehicular cyclists involved in fatal accidents and the alleged sobriety of bicycling rear ended accident victims has misinterpreted a few numbers he picked up somewhere on the Internet.

Of course Vehicular Cyclist acolytes themselves are notorious for misrepresenting various factoid bits and juggled data to "prove" just how much safer Vehicular Cyclists are over unworthy "incompetent" cyclists not savvy in the art of Effective Cycling.

FBinNY 

Most or all published stats transportation deaths are on a per mile basis. This is logical if the goal is to get from point A to point B, and so would make sense for commuters.

OTOH - if the point is to ride a bicycle or other vehicle for pleasure rather than to reach a destination, then it might make sense to compare the risk on a per hour basis, but I don't know if anyone has run this analysis.

Also, there are few comparisons that are adjusted for the health benefits of bicycling vs. driving, and the big picture change in statistical life expectancy.

In any case, I don't believe that statistics are destiny, and we all can significantly improve our odds by riding smart and/or avoiding things known to increase risks. For example, I avoid riding late Friday and Saturday nights, which greatly reduces my odds of encountering drunk drivers on the roads. Without running the numbers (which are unavailable anyway) I'll venture that each of us can improve our personal odds of death on a bicycle by 1/2 to 3/4ths.