kickstart

This is why I dislike "what should I do" threads. There's such a wide variety of circumstances and conditions there simply isn't one right answer. When someone states "never" or "always", its a good indication its bad advice. Nothing can replace observing how things actually are in a given time and place and adjusting to meet those conditions. What works at the intersection of maple and vine on a tuesday afternoon may be suicide on a friday evening.

bovine

Absolutely agree. Three lights worth of traffic and no busy commercial driveways? You better believe I'm going to take advantage of my preferred mode of transportation and hop up on that sidewalk to take the crosswalk across. Lane isn't wide enough to allow for people to pass on the right? I won't be making room. There are so many variables that it's silly to talk about this stuff in terms other than "this is what I do 80% of the time, if conditions permit."

kickstart

I consider everything from the center stripe to the sidewalk and even adjacent parking lots worth consideration and use depending on conditions and circumstances. Those who claim that one should never use the lane, or never use anything but the lane are defying logic and common sense by limiting choices as nothing is best all the time.

I find it interesting that even here in the Seattle area with a sizable and dynamic cycling community, I virtually never see anybody riding in the narrow minded, dogmatic manner some suggest here.

spare_wheel

same laws? where i live there are a whole bunch of bike-specific laws that range from vague to silly.

dedhed

This
I can go through the same intersection numerous times in one day and never treat it the same.

walrus1

I'm sorry what did I miss read? Your statement "That is often parroted but its not a universal truth by a long shot." Which is actually kinda of insulting or the part where you explicitly state you hang 15 feet back from the stop line and hence are not visible to turning traffic? If you're 15 feet back and on the side as your statement suggested you're not visible. Perhaps you should reread your initial reply to me as there was nothing about begin off the rear panel. Also how can you see anything if you are 15 feet back and your field of view is blocked by car's side? Simple you cant. How can not passing the vehicle in front prevent a hook? A car behind you can't hook you but a car in front or to your side can. Also in those 15 feet you will most likely get passed at least once if cars accelerate with the peddle down like they do here.

kickstart

The 15 feet is just an approximation to not be along side the lead vehicle at the stop, but at the gap between the 1st and 2nd. If one is pacing a vehicle in front of them on its quarter it can't hit them any more than if one was in the lane behind it. I'm not a very athletic cyclist, and I usually need to hold back some to not overtake the lead vehicle, and the second can't go any faster than the vehicle in front of it. Additionally there's typically a delay between the 1st and 2nd vehicle starting to move, which widen the gap even more.

The remark about "parroting" wasn't directed at you, I apologize for giving that impression.

Jaywalk3r

If the car immediately in front of you turns right, then it crosses your path while simultaneously decreasing the component of its velocity that is parallel to our direction of movement. It may not be able to hit you, but it can certainly require you to slow down to avoid hitting it, with the car behind potentially moving into any space that could have been a left-side out. I think many bicyclists would be legitimately concerned about intentionally exposing themselves to such potential conflicts.

kickstart

Well, slowing when still going relatively slow isn't a problem, and I picked up this technique observing cyclists doing it in downtown seattle, It works for me and I see it working for others.
But I would like to reiterate, this is only one possibility, and dependent on many things. I only mentioned it to illustrate that "hugging the curb" isn't always the wrong thing to do. I'm not claiming its the "correct" way to always do it, its just a viable option, nothing more.

Jaywalk3r

Likewise, I'm not telling you not to do it.

It does invite scenarios that I go out of my way to avoid. Not hugging the curb at intersections is actually one of the few things that I virtually always avoid (and you're right about there being very few absolutes in bicycling). I might move left in the lane. I might filter ahead of all the traffic. I might proceed through an intersection against a red if there's no cross traffic. I might even jump onto the sidewalk occasionally, even on the left side. But I can't imagine any situation in which I'd want to hug the curb at an intersection. And if anyone IRL asked me about doing it, I'd feel obligated to advise strongly against it.

kickstart

Not sure If you caught it, But I'm referring to when there's a shoulder or bike lane, not when one is using the lane and they are not present.

Jaywalk3r

I didn't catch that. It makes more sense. I still wouldn't be inclined to do it, though, due to potential conflicts that would still exist. Unless the signal separates our movement in time (such as some intersections in Amsterdam), I don't want any traffic on my left to be able to turn across my path.

kickstart

There's a down hill intersection on my commute home where most traffic turns right, if the light is green and I will make it, I signal and merge from the bike lane into the travel lane to proceed through. If I must stop I will do as described earlier.
But neither are absolutes as I don't work set hours, and there can be wide variations in traffic volume depending when I get off work.

ItsJustMe

No, IMO if you can see that they want to turn right, you should get as far left as you can. This is what I do. I get right up on the yellow line at the stop line so they can nudge by me on the right.

If you're far right, what happens if there's a bunch of cars that want to turn right? In my experience, they all just keep going after the light turns green and you are stuck or you're going to risk being right hooked.

brianinc-ville

This is correct. IF it's a straight-right lane, and IF it's wide enough to share, then you'll want to wait on the stop bar at the LEFT side of the lane. NOT the right side. If you wait on the right, you'll have a difficult time getting safely back into the flow of straight-through traffic when the light changes, and you'll have a very good chance of getting right-hooked. If you wait on the left side, cars can turn right freely, and straight-through cars will be prevented from cutting you off in the intersection.

If the lane isn't wide enough to share, you should wait on the stop bar in the MIDDLE of the lane, to make it clear that cars should not pass you in the intersection.

(I'm an LCI, by the way, and this is the kind of stuff we teach in the LAB's Smart Cycling courses. You should take one. It will make your ride both safer and more fun. Now, get out there and have a good time!)

Wilfred Laurier

I usually move forward and to the left - closer to the next lane over - so I can go straight and other road users can turn right behind me.

Chris516

Good point.

Yamato72

My rule of thumb is pretty simple: I always wait for an opening and pull into the lane appropriate to where I am travelling. If turning left or going straight I would check my mirror and then pull into the center of the lane that I need to be in. Even if turning right I would stay in the middle of the right-turn lane rather than hugging the curb. IMO it is critical to be as visible as possible when approaching and proceeding through intersections.

wipekitty

Personally...

If there is a right-turn only lane and I'm going straight, I head to the right edge of the closest lane that goes straight.

If there's a lane that goes straight and turns right, and there's enough room, I edge left enough that potential right-turners can get around me. When cars pull up, I make contact and start directing traffic: if they're turning right, I wave them around, and if they're not, I make pointing motions to indicate that I'll be going straight. I try to be as polite and informative as possible, until I am given a reason not to.

This works for me because I live in a smaller community with fairly low traffic volumes. I was also right-hooked once, so I'm paranoid.

68venable

I think the original post is describing two lanes going forward with the right lane able to turn right (not a turn only lane).

If this is the case, I stay in the right lane but hug closer to the left lane. I give them the curb side if they want to turn right. If they don't have room they can wait for the light to turn and I will quickly be out of their way. I always try to make eye contact and gesture that I am allowing them past to turn.

delcrossv

I usually stop on the left hand side of the right lane so cars can pass me to my right to make their turn. I'll drift right after the intersection. Much safer IMO.

PatrickGSR94

NEVER hug the curb! Especially at an intersection, that's the WORST place you can be! Hugging the curb but being farther forward puts you right smack in the path of right-turning traffic.

If going straight from a lane that allows both straight and right turns, move a little left so that other traffic can turn right behind you (if you're at the head position). If you're behind other cars, wait behind them, in a leftward position in the lane so you're more or less lined up with the driver seat of traffic ahead of and behind you.

The only exception I make is when there is a RTOL and a straight-through lane, but the other side of the intersection has two traffic lanes (the straight through lane aligns with the left lane on the other side). In that case I might get in the very left corner of the RTOL since right turning traffic never goes in that spot anyway, and I can just go straight across to the right lane on the other side.'

Never position yourself in the left lane if that right lane contains right turning cars but allows straight through movements, if you intend to get back in the right lane on the opposite side. You could go through the intersection and find yourself up against a car on your right that went straight through the intersection after the right-turning traffic.

kickstart

Advice on how to ride that is quantified by "never" or "always" should be considered suspect as everyones abilities and environment is different.