Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

I am tired of bicycle riders who want to be invisible to motor vehicles

Search
Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

I am tired of bicycle riders who want to be invisible to motor vehicles

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-22-15, 06:18 PM
  #26  
Just a person on bike
 
daihard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Looigi
What's been your experience seeing what pedestrians and cyclists are wearing when you've been riding and driving? After 40+ years of doing both, I've seen enough to formulate my own opinions of what works better in various conditions. Nothing is best in all conditions. Yellows and oranges can blend in with fall foliage, and bright yellow-green with new sunlit spring foliage. They're both always better than drab colors. At night, lights, reflectors or reflective materials will always be the most conspicuous, and light colors will better allow the driver to make out your size, distance and what you are once illuminated more brightly by their headlights. The more time they have before intercepting you, and the more information they have, the better the chance they can respond appropriately. The main thing is to make them aware something is there as much in advance as is reasonable. The worst thing is for them not to realize you're there until a few seconds before their upon you.
That's a good question. Honestly, I've never been startled or surprised to see a person emerge all of a sudden during the day, no matter my mode of transport. The few times I have been, it has always been at night and someone on foot in dark, non-reflective clothing. In other words, I can't really confirm or deny the theory I quoted. For my own visibility, I rely largely on the lights (both front and rear all the time) and reflective strips on my helmet.
__________________

The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
daihard is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 09:44 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143

Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The problem now is cars have evolved to such a point that they are essentially rolling relaxation chambers. Climate control, piped music, contoured seats, etc all conspire to lull the driver into a semi-conscious state.
keyven is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 09:59 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,763
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times in 760 Posts
I've never felt that cycling is so dangerous as to warrant hard core safety vests, etc. To me it's just a silly precaution, especially when I see people on bikes on bike trails wearing those things.
Camilo is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 10:25 PM
  #29  
Just a person on bike
 
daihard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Camilo
I've never felt that cycling is so dangerous as to warrant hard core safety vests, etc. To me it's just a silly precaution, especially when I see people on bikes on bike trails wearing those things.
There are people who ride to the bike trails / MUPs instead of carrying their bikes on the car.
__________________

The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
daihard is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 10:27 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,763
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times in 760 Posts
Originally Posted by daihard
There are people who ride to the bike trails / MUPs instead of carrying their bikes on the car.
Oh, of course. I do see people I know who ride nothing but sidewalks and trails and still use them. Plus, like I said, I personally have never seen a need for such extreme visibility for riding a bike. But to each his own, I guess. I feel the same way about mirrors and helmets, so there you go.
Camilo is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 10:37 PM
  #31  
Just a person on bike
 
daihard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,140

Bikes: 2015 Trek 1.1, 2021 Specialized Roubaix, 2022 Tern HSD S+

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 56 Posts
Originally Posted by Camilo
Oh, of course. I do see people I know who ride nothing but sidewalks and trails and still use them. Plus, like I said, I personally have never seen a need for such extreme visibility for riding a bike. But to each his own, I guess. I feel the same way about mirrors and helmets, so there you go.
We're good. I don't feel the need of a mirror myself, either, so that's that. Unfortunately, we have a mandatory helmet law where I live.
__________________

The value of your life doesn't change based on the way you travel. - Dawn Schellenberg (SDOT)
daihard is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 11:07 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,763
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,200 Times in 760 Posts
Originally Posted by daihard
We're good. I don't feel the need of a mirror myself, either, so that's that. Unfortunately, we have a mandatory helmet law where I live.
I really don't have any problem with mirrors, helmets or safety colors (even wear a helmet almost all the time, myself), but just don't see a need for them and get impatient with people who think they're essential for reasonable safety.
Camilo is offline  
Old 06-22-15, 11:28 PM
  #33  
mgb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacifica, California
Posts: 87

Bikes: 1983 Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
More and more riders and joggers do wear the highly visible colors, and that's a good thing, but if I come to expect it as a driver I'm less likely to be scanning for anyone still wearing the drab and dark colors. Since I know this I consciously do it but have started to wonder if other drivers may be more likely to miss seeing the less visible rider. Just something to keep in mind.
mgb is offline  
Old 06-23-15, 12:41 AM
  #34  
Anywhere I roam
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rockies, U.S.A.
Posts: 261

Bikes: Three blind bikes

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Looigi
What's been your experience seeing what pedestrians and cyclists are wearing when you've been riding and driving? After 40+ years of doing both, I've seen enough to formulate my own opinions of what works better in various conditions. Nothing is best in all conditions. Yellows and oranges can blend in with fall foliage, and bright yellow-green with new sunlit spring foliage. They're both always better than drab colors. At night, lights, reflectors or reflective materials will always be the most conspicuous, and light colors will better allow the driver to make out your size, distance and what you are once illuminated more brightly by their headlights. The more time they have before intercepting you, and the more information they have, the better the chance they can respond appropriately. The main thing is to make them aware something is there as much in advance as is reasonable. The worst thing is for them not to realize you're there until a few seconds before their upon you.
Shows up best in all conditions.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (82.0 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (99.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (52.2 KB, 25 views)
Wolf Dust is offline  
Old 06-23-15, 03:41 PM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,033

Bikes: I own N+1 bikes, where N=0.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I choose my clothing based on what's appropriate to wear at my destination. Bicycling is not such a dangerous activity that I need to wear special clothing just to get from here to there safely.
Jaywalk3r is offline  
Old 06-23-15, 05:57 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r
I choose my clothing based on what's appropriate to wear at my destination. Bicycling is not such a dangerous activity that I need to wear special clothing just to get from here to there safely.
Tossing a vest over it when dark in the fog or rain when riding high speed arterials doesn't take much effort, and is a reasonable precaution for difficult conditions. It doesn't need to be all out or nothing.
kickstart is offline  
Old 06-23-15, 07:03 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
GovernorSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Posts: 1,218

Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, Jamis Renegade Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
When I'm driving my car, it is pretty unnerving to suddenly see a cyclist in dark clothes on a dark colored bike materialize seemingly out of nowhere in the dark of night. Just like it is for pedestrians in dark clothes suddenly decide to cross the street in front of my car without looking.
GovernorSilver is offline  
Old 06-23-15, 10:59 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r
I choose my clothing based on what's appropriate to wear at my destination. Bicycling is not such a dangerous activity that I need to wear special clothing just to get from here to there safely.
Yes, with decent lights and reflectors on the bike there should be no need for special clothing. The trio below is quite visible without any need for reflective or other hi-viz clothing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
denmark03.jpg (52.5 KB, 42 views)
prathmann is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 08:22 AM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by jgadamski
Flo Orange seems to be everywhere on a construction site. Hence, many workers are moving to flo yellow on roadwork sites so they don't become mistaken for a pylon.
Moving around on occasion might help with that too.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 08:35 AM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Black cars, when parked, aren't wearing day-glo.
No, but they are still required to have reflectors on the back, in addition to the reflective license plates that pretty much every state uses.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 08:58 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
italktocats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
if you dont look you dont see, hi vis or ninja..
italktocats is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 09:02 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
 
italktocats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 885
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mgb
More and more riders and joggers do wear the highly visible colors, and that's a good thing, but if I come to expect it as a driver I'm less likely to be scanning for anyone still wearing the drab and dark colors. Since I know this I consciously do it but have started to wonder if other drivers may be more likely to miss seeing the less visible rider. Just something to keep in mind.
thats pretty much the reasoning behind motorcycles against drivers with lights on during the day; theyll look for headlights not the motorcyclist
italktocats is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 12:03 PM
  #43  
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4905 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times in 958 Posts
TL;DR: "hi viz" colors are likely zero-net gain when used in daylight hours, and reflective is better at night.

I ride during daylight hours only, and I wear black when I ride. Black jersey, black shorts, black shoes. And I'm far more comfortable wearing a contrasting color (how much of the world that you see outside is actually black? nothing is as black as what I'm wearing) than I would be wearing anything bright colored or "hi viz." Because it doesn't really work. The brain and eyes work off of pattern recognition first, detail only if the pattern prompts further investigation. We see shape and movement long before we see color. Distracted drivers are defaulting to learned programming that looks for things the size and shape of cars-- that's how people can plow down a motorcycle in broad daylight and claim "I never even saw them." Their lazy brain never picked out the non-car shape. On that same pattern recognition, a distracted driver (which is how I categorize all drivers-- I behave as if they are wholly oblivious to me) can register a hi-viz glimpse of color, and unconsciously file it as "roadside worker" or "construction apparatus." I don't want to rely on the awareness of a driver to recognize and sort patterns-- they'd have to stop texting to do that anyway.
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 01:16 PM
  #44  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,033

Bikes: I own N+1 bikes, where N=0.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Tossing a vest over it when dark in the fog or rain when riding high speed arterials doesn't take much effort, and is a reasonable precaution for difficult conditions. It doesn't need to be all out or nothing.
The objective risk doesn't suggest such "precautions" are necessary. It is perfectly reasonable to ride a bicycle on US streets without any special safety equipment. It's not an extreme sport, except in the imaginations of some folks.
Jaywalk3r is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 01:41 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r
The objective risk doesn't suggest such "precautions" are necessary. It is perfectly reasonable to ride a bicycle on US streets without any special safety equipment. It's not an extreme sport, except in the imaginations of some folks.
Statistical averages don't invalidate the elevated risk of certain conditions such as the ones I mentioned. Parts of my commute involve multi lane high speed arterials with lots of drives and cross roads. This time of year in the dry clear daytime conditions I also see no need, but once I'm back to doing it in the dark, fog, and rain I will as circumstances have changed. Not head to toe high viz, not banks of mega watt strobes, just some basic lighting and a reflective vest.

Many of the job sites and businesses I deliver to as a professional driver also require wearing a vest, so I'm used to it, and I don't feel my manhood is compromised by it.
kickstart is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 02:21 PM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,033

Bikes: I own N+1 bikes, where N=0.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Statistical averages don't invalidate the elevated risk of certain conditions such as the ones I mentioned.
If you imagine riding a bike to be dangerous and wearing a vest makes you feel safer, then you are certainly free to do so, just as you are free to pray to purple unicorns or the flying spaghetti monster for safety benefit.

My point is that it is perfectly reasonable to reach the conclusion that such measures are not necessary for riding a bicycle on the street. There's nothing wrong with riding in ordinary clothes without any special safety equipment.

If I'm riding in fog, rain, or darkness, my lights are quite adequate to ensure my visibility.
Jaywalk3r is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 02:36 PM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 239

Bikes: Yuba Mundo 4.3, 2007 Jake the Snake

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r
If I'm riding in fog, rain, or darkness, my lights are quite adequate to ensure my visibility.
Why in the world would you ride with lights on in fog, rain, or darkness!? Do you have any peer-reviewed empirical analysis that shows that riding with lights on in those conditions significantly decreases risk of death or injury of cyclists?
bovine is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 02:51 PM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,033

Bikes: I own N+1 bikes, where N=0.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bovine
Why in the world would you ride with lights on in fog, rain, or darkness!?
I like to be able to see where I'm going.
Jaywalk3r is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 03:12 PM
  #49  
Senior Member
 
bbbean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,690

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, Univega Alpina Ultima

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 672 Post(s)
Liked 417 Times in 249 Posts
Originally Posted by bovine
Why in the world would you ride with lights on in fog, rain, or darkness!? Do you have any peer-reviewed empirical analysis that shows that riding with lights on in those conditions significantly decreases risk of death or injury of cyclists?
It's OK if people occasionally make personal safety decisions based on their own opinions, even if they believe outlandish things like "lights increase my visibility and increase the odds that I may be visible to other road users." Ridiculous, I know...

Of course, if you're willing to offer a critical review of the literature or offer your own research for critique and/or replication, I'm sure we'll all be fascinated.
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Old 06-24-15, 03:19 PM
  #50  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 239

Bikes: Yuba Mundo 4.3, 2007 Jake the Snake

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by bbbean
It's OK if people occasionally make personal safety decisions based on their own opinions, even if they believe outlandish things like "lights increase my visibility and increase the odds that I may be visible to other road users." Ridiculous, I know...

Of course, if you're willing to offer a critical review of the literature or offer your own research for critique and/or replication, I'm sure we'll all be fascinated.
Completely facetious. Just satirizing the anti-helmet crowd.
bovine is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.