I am tired of bicycle riders who want to be invisible to motor vehicles
#26
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What's been your experience seeing what pedestrians and cyclists are wearing when you've been riding and driving? After 40+ years of doing both, I've seen enough to formulate my own opinions of what works better in various conditions. Nothing is best in all conditions. Yellows and oranges can blend in with fall foliage, and bright yellow-green with new sunlit spring foliage. They're both always better than drab colors. At night, lights, reflectors or reflective materials will always be the most conspicuous, and light colors will better allow the driver to make out your size, distance and what you are once illuminated more brightly by their headlights. The more time they have before intercepting you, and the more information they have, the better the chance they can respond appropriately. The main thing is to make them aware something is there as much in advance as is reasonable. The worst thing is for them not to realize you're there until a few seconds before their upon you.
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The problem now is cars have evolved to such a point that they are essentially rolling relaxation chambers. Climate control, piped music, contoured seats, etc all conspire to lull the driver into a semi-conscious state.
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I've never felt that cycling is so dangerous as to warrant hard core safety vests, etc. To me it's just a silly precaution, especially when I see people on bikes on bike trails wearing those things.
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There are people who ride to the bike trails / MUPs instead of carrying their bikes on the car.
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Oh, of course. I do see people I know who ride nothing but sidewalks and trails and still use them. Plus, like I said, I personally have never seen a need for such extreme visibility for riding a bike. But to each his own, I guess. I feel the same way about mirrors and helmets, so there you go.
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Oh, of course. I do see people I know who ride nothing but sidewalks and trails and still use them. Plus, like I said, I personally have never seen a need for such extreme visibility for riding a bike. But to each his own, I guess. I feel the same way about mirrors and helmets, so there you go.
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I really don't have any problem with mirrors, helmets or safety colors (even wear a helmet almost all the time, myself), but just don't see a need for them and get impatient with people who think they're essential for reasonable safety.
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More and more riders and joggers do wear the highly visible colors, and that's a good thing, but if I come to expect it as a driver I'm less likely to be scanning for anyone still wearing the drab and dark colors. Since I know this I consciously do it but have started to wonder if other drivers may be more likely to miss seeing the less visible rider. Just something to keep in mind.
#34
Anywhere I roam
What's been your experience seeing what pedestrians and cyclists are wearing when you've been riding and driving? After 40+ years of doing both, I've seen enough to formulate my own opinions of what works better in various conditions. Nothing is best in all conditions. Yellows and oranges can blend in with fall foliage, and bright yellow-green with new sunlit spring foliage. They're both always better than drab colors. At night, lights, reflectors or reflective materials will always be the most conspicuous, and light colors will better allow the driver to make out your size, distance and what you are once illuminated more brightly by their headlights. The more time they have before intercepting you, and the more information they have, the better the chance they can respond appropriately. The main thing is to make them aware something is there as much in advance as is reasonable. The worst thing is for them not to realize you're there until a few seconds before their upon you.
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I choose my clothing based on what's appropriate to wear at my destination. Bicycling is not such a dangerous activity that I need to wear special clothing just to get from here to there safely.
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Tossing a vest over it when dark in the fog or rain when riding high speed arterials doesn't take much effort, and is a reasonable precaution for difficult conditions. It doesn't need to be all out or nothing.
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When I'm driving my car, it is pretty unnerving to suddenly see a cyclist in dark clothes on a dark colored bike materialize seemingly out of nowhere in the dark of night. Just like it is for pedestrians in dark clothes suddenly decide to cross the street in front of my car without looking.
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More and more riders and joggers do wear the highly visible colors, and that's a good thing, but if I come to expect it as a driver I'm less likely to be scanning for anyone still wearing the drab and dark colors. Since I know this I consciously do it but have started to wonder if other drivers may be more likely to miss seeing the less visible rider. Just something to keep in mind.
#43
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TL;DR: "hi viz" colors are likely zero-net gain when used in daylight hours, and reflective is better at night.
I ride during daylight hours only, and I wear black when I ride. Black jersey, black shorts, black shoes. And I'm far more comfortable wearing a contrasting color (how much of the world that you see outside is actually black? nothing is as black as what I'm wearing) than I would be wearing anything bright colored or "hi viz." Because it doesn't really work. The brain and eyes work off of pattern recognition first, detail only if the pattern prompts further investigation. We see shape and movement long before we see color. Distracted drivers are defaulting to learned programming that looks for things the size and shape of cars-- that's how people can plow down a motorcycle in broad daylight and claim "I never even saw them." Their lazy brain never picked out the non-car shape. On that same pattern recognition, a distracted driver (which is how I categorize all drivers-- I behave as if they are wholly oblivious to me) can register a hi-viz glimpse of color, and unconsciously file it as "roadside worker" or "construction apparatus." I don't want to rely on the awareness of a driver to recognize and sort patterns-- they'd have to stop texting to do that anyway.
I ride during daylight hours only, and I wear black when I ride. Black jersey, black shorts, black shoes. And I'm far more comfortable wearing a contrasting color (how much of the world that you see outside is actually black? nothing is as black as what I'm wearing) than I would be wearing anything bright colored or "hi viz." Because it doesn't really work. The brain and eyes work off of pattern recognition first, detail only if the pattern prompts further investigation. We see shape and movement long before we see color. Distracted drivers are defaulting to learned programming that looks for things the size and shape of cars-- that's how people can plow down a motorcycle in broad daylight and claim "I never even saw them." Their lazy brain never picked out the non-car shape. On that same pattern recognition, a distracted driver (which is how I categorize all drivers-- I behave as if they are wholly oblivious to me) can register a hi-viz glimpse of color, and unconsciously file it as "roadside worker" or "construction apparatus." I don't want to rely on the awareness of a driver to recognize and sort patterns-- they'd have to stop texting to do that anyway.
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The objective risk doesn't suggest such "precautions" are necessary. It is perfectly reasonable to ride a bicycle on US streets without any special safety equipment. It's not an extreme sport, except in the imaginations of some folks.
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Many of the job sites and businesses I deliver to as a professional driver also require wearing a vest, so I'm used to it, and I don't feel my manhood is compromised by it.
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My point is that it is perfectly reasonable to reach the conclusion that such measures are not necessary for riding a bicycle on the street. There's nothing wrong with riding in ordinary clothes without any special safety equipment.
If I'm riding in fog, rain, or darkness, my lights are quite adequate to ensure my visibility.
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Why in the world would you ride with lights on in fog, rain, or darkness!? Do you have any peer-reviewed empirical analysis that shows that riding with lights on in those conditions significantly decreases risk of death or injury of cyclists?
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Of course, if you're willing to offer a critical review of the literature or offer your own research for critique and/or replication, I'm sure we'll all be fascinated.
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It's OK if people occasionally make personal safety decisions based on their own opinions, even if they believe outlandish things like "lights increase my visibility and increase the odds that I may be visible to other road users." Ridiculous, I know...
Of course, if you're willing to offer a critical review of the literature or offer your own research for critique and/or replication, I'm sure we'll all be fascinated.
Of course, if you're willing to offer a critical review of the literature or offer your own research for critique and/or replication, I'm sure we'll all be fascinated.