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In the "you gotta be kidding" department...

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In the "you gotta be kidding" department...

Old 07-13-15, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
In Ontario, I believe the wording of the 'distracted driving' law is that 'handheld electronics' are not to be used by the driver.

14" silicone schlong = OK; pocket rocket = illegal.
As long as it can be used hands-free ...
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Old 07-13-15, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by italianstallion
Thus why at lights I pull up beside cars rather than directly behind them. A car-sandwich with me in the middle is not my idea of a good day
I'm the opposite. I always pull behind cars. I'd much rather be BUMPED by a car coming to a stop at 5 mph, than right hooked and dragged by a car who is completely oblivious. Plus, I don't like passing cars on the right while they're stopped, and drivers hate it when you do that. Sure, I could stop beside the car instead of passing it, which is what I do sometimes if I don't have time to pull behind the car, but I don't like stopping at seemingly random (to drivers) places.

Of course, if there is a bike lane, I'll just follow that all of the way up to the light. Which is exactly opposite to what I said above.
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Old 07-13-15, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
I'm the opposite. I always pull behind cars. I'd much rather be BUMPED by a car coming to a stop at 5 mph, than right hooked and dragged by a car who is completely oblivious. Plus, I don't like passing cars on the right while they're stopped, and drivers hate it when you do that. Sure, I could stop beside the car instead of passing it, which is what I do sometimes if I don't have time to pull behind the car, but I don't like stopping at seemingly random (to drivers) places.

Of course, if there is a bike lane, I'll just follow that all of the way up to the light. Which is exactly opposite to what I said above.
I've been rear ended in my car three times in the past two years, and each time I was rear ended I was stopped in traffic at a red light and was hit at significantly higher speeds than 5 mph. So I've been going through that whole 'checking the rear view mirror each time I'm at a light' thing, and its especially unnerving now that I'm on a bicycle and I think about how each of those three rear end collisions probably would've killed me if I was on a bike. Absolutely there's no perfectly safe place for us out on the roads, but for me personally I feel much better either directly beside a car or off the edge of the right side of their rear bumper (this way if there is a rear end collision I have better odds of not getting sandwiched between cars). I don't try and beat the car I'm beside through the intersection when the light goes green...I wait for that car to go then I start rolling, so there's no risk of a right hook. I also don't pass every car at the light: I take my place in line, albeit next to a car rather than behind it. This avoids pissing everyone off that I'm passing them on the right, and also limits the risk of getting right hooked.
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Old 07-13-15, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by italianstallion
I've been rear ended in my car three times in the past two years, and each time I was rear ended I was stopped in traffic at a red light and was hit at significantly higher speeds than 5 mph. So I've been going through that whole 'checking the rear view mirror each time I'm at a light' thing, and its especially unnerving now that I'm on a bicycle and I think about how each of those three rear end collisions probably would've killed me if I was on a bike. Absolutely there's no perfectly safe place for us out on the roads, but for me personally I feel much better either directly beside a car or off the edge of the right side of their rear bumper (this way if there is a rear end collision I have better odds of not getting sandwiched between cars). I don't try and beat the car I'm beside through the intersection when the light goes green...I wait for that car to go then I start rolling, so there's no risk of a right hook. I also don't pass every car at the light: I take my place in line, albeit next to a car rather than behind it. This avoids pissing everyone off that I'm passing them on the right, and also limits the risk of getting right hooked.
I was rear-ended on my bike, a couple years ago. I was in a dual-turn lane, waiting to merge into southbound traffic. So I could make the next right turn. The motorist said they didn't see me. I believed that as much as an ostrich plays poker, or a dachsund driving a Ferrari F40(just examples not true incidents). I still 'take the lane'. So I not only avoid a right-cross. I also avoid getting hit by a motorist suddenly pulling out of a driveway entrance/parking lot. If I am behind a vehicle, I don't follow them too closely. I don't ride in their blindspot. I don't care who I tick off. As long as, I am both, holding my position, and looking out for their safety. So they can pass without endangering my life, or theirs.

I was passed in a merge lane and the motorist spun out. As he attempted to re-enter the merge lane before it ended. They almost caused a multi-car collision.
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Old 07-13-15, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Yet another distraction story... something to keep in mind if you happen to be taking a lane, in front of this particular woman...
It's not only just women you have to worry about....I had a conversation with a local LEO some time back, it was about well know local businessman who happened to end up driving off the road, and the eyeopener that the LEO and his partner got when they were called in to investigate the incident.
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Old 07-14-15, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by italianstallion
...I also don't pass every car at the light: I take my place in line, albeit next to a car rather than behind it. This avoids pissing everyone off that I'm passing them on the right, and also limits the risk of getting right hooked.
Right hooks are easily avoided. Get a mirror, use it, pay attention.

Getting squished between two cars at a red light while you sit stationary like a sitting duck is impossible to prevent, other than NOT BEING THERE in the first place.

And don't worry about pissing everyone off at the light. They are looking at their phones, not at you. And likely they don't care anyway so long as you don't filter to the front and THEN take the lane. I generally filter to the front, then wait for all of the cars to go past me when the light turns green, then file in after the last car passes. Or just run the red when possible and disappear over the horizon before the light goes green. I will sometimes line up behind the very last car at a stoplight if there are no more cars coming up behind me and the light is about to go green.

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Old 07-14-15, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Right hooks are easily avoided. Get a mirror, use it, pay attention.
Avoided, but not always done easily. Some clueless motorists have a knack for making right hooks an art form, and avoiding them has come down to shear luck at times.
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Old 07-14-15, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
I don't like stopping at seemingly random (to drivers) places.
Right. It's random to drivers because it's contrary to the rules of the road. Common cyclist behavior truly leaves motorists wondering what the heck they are doing / going to do. When in the lane acting like any other vehicle our intention becomes quite clear.

I notice a HUGE difference with how I'm treated while stopped in line at a light. When in my car, I often see drivers behind fly up at speed, brake late and hard, stopping very close to my rear. On the bike it's the complete opposite. The sight of a cyclist causes them to use MORE caution, come up slower and stay farther back. Being rear ended in a stopped car is much more likely in my experience. Especially considering that while on the bike you can move out of the way if necessary... something you CAN"T usually do in a car.

Originally Posted by italianstallion
I've been rear ended in my car three times in the past two years, and each time I was rear ended I was stopped in traffic at a red light and was hit at significantly higher speeds than 5 mph. So I've been going through that whole 'checking the rear view mirror each time I'm at a light' thing, and its especially unnerving now that I'm on a bicycle and I think about how each of those three rear end collisions probably would've killed me if I was on a bike.
Or, the motorist would have taken notice of something much more unusual than just another car, and slowed earlier. Or, since you wisely monitor your mirror while stopped, you'd have seen it in time and been able to move out of line and avoided a collision.
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Old 07-14-15, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Getting squished between two cars at a red light while you sit stationary like a sitting duck is impossible to prevent, other than NOT BEING THERE in the first place.
CARS are sitting ducks. Bikes are not.
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Old 07-14-15, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Right. It's random to drivers because it's contrary to the rules of the road. Common cyclist behavior truly leaves motorists wondering what the heck they are doing / going to do. When in the lane acting like any other vehicle our intention becomes quite clear.

I notice a HUGE difference with how I'm treated while stopped in line at a light. When in my car, I often see drivers behind fly up at speed, brake late and hard, stopping very close to my rear. On the bike it's the complete opposite. The sight of a cyclist causes them to use MORE caution, come up slower and stay farther back. Being rear ended in a stopped car is much more likely in my experience. Especially considering that while on the bike you can move out of the way if necessary... something you CAN"T usually do in a car.



Or, the motorist would have taken notice of something much more unusual than just another car, and slowed earlier. Or, since you wisely monitor your mirror while stopped, you'd have seen it in time and been able to move out of line and avoided a collision.
This is what I have noticed as well, motorists take more notice when a cyclist is in the roadway. Car in middle of the road=usual.... Cyclist in the middle of the road = unusual (to some motorists = bulls eye)
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Old 07-14-15, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dynodonn
Avoided, but not always done easily. Some clueless motorists have a knack for making right hooks an art form, and avoiding them has come down to shear luck at times.
This. I had an idiot driver pull up beside me while I was riding on the white line (2 foot shoulder), not even pass me completely, LOOKED AT ME, no turn signal, then tried to turn right. I didn't have time to stop, if I had run into them they would have been buying me a new bike. I wasn't going fast enough to hurt myself if I had hit them. There were 2 or three people following us, so plenty of witnesses. I always look at cars' turn signals when someone passes me at a speed slower than I would expect for that road. If someone actually does have the time to pass me, and they DO put their turn signal on, I'll move into the lane and pass them on the left.

Some people are just idiotic.

EDIT: This was in broad daylight, with me riding my BRIGHT YELLOW bike and that day I was even wearing a BRIGHT RED sweater vest, there's no way in hell they didn't see me, especially since she looked over DIRECTLY AT ME before she tried to turn.
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Old 07-14-15, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
This. I had an idiot driver pull up beside me while I was riding on the white line (2 foot shoulder), not even pass me completely, LOOKED AT ME, no turn signal, then tried to turn right. I didn't have time to stop, if I had run into them they would have been buying me a new bike. I wasn't going fast enough to hurt myself if I had hit them. There were 2 or three people following us, so plenty of witnesses. I always look at cars' turn signals when someone passes me at a speed slower than I would expect for that road. If someone actually does have the time to pass me, and they DO put their turn signal on, I'll move into the lane and pass them on the left.



Some people are just idiotic.

EDIT: This was in broad daylight, with me riding my BRIGHT YELLOW bike and that day I was even wearing a BRIGHT RED sweater vest, there's no way in hell they didn't see me, especially since she looked over DIRECTLY AT ME before she tried to turn.
My closest right hooks occurred while I was traveling at a speed low enough to be within my bicycle's brakes ability to stop in a very short distance, any faster and I probably would have hit the side of the motorist's vehicle.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
This. I had an idiot driver pull up beside me while I was riding on the white line (2 foot shoulder), not even pass me completely, LOOKED AT ME, no turn signal, then tried to turn right. I didn't have time to stop, if I had run into them they would have been buying me a new bike. I wasn't going fast enough to hurt myself if I had hit them. There were 2 or three people following us, so plenty of witnesses. I always look at cars' turn signals when someone passes me at a speed slower than I would expect for that road. If someone actually does have the time to pass me, and they DO put their turn signal on, I'll move into the lane and pass them on the left.

Some people are just idiotic.

EDIT: This was in broad daylight, with me riding my BRIGHT YELLOW bike and that day I was even wearing a BRIGHT RED sweater vest, there's no way in hell they didn't see me, especially since she looked over DIRECTLY AT ME before she tried to turn.
Yeah some drivers feel that cyclists are only "borrowing" the road built for cars and that they are doing us a favor. I had a driver once say to me, "bikes are supposed to stay out of the way." No doubt that motorist expected you to fall back so the "rightful user of the road" could make their desired move... Sheesh.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
CARS are sitting ducks. Bikes are not.
If you are straddling your bike with one or two feet on the ground behind a car at a red light, you are the definition of a sitting duck.
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Old 07-14-15, 10:43 AM
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I just don't get it. A bike is, at most, 6 feet long. (Excluding tandems and bents.) If you are sitting a few feet behind a car, then your back end is at most, 10 feet from the back of the car in front of you. (Often less, I'll literally sit a foot away from the car most of the time.) A car coming behind you cannot be traveling that fast in those 10 feet if they plan to stop without hitting the car. If they DO hit the car, you're probably going to get hit even if you ARE beside the car instead of behind it. I prefer to remain as visible as possible at stoplights/stopsigns, in the middle of the lane.

A car traveling at 10 mph will cover the 10 foot gap in less than a second. A car traveling 5 mph will cover that 10 foot gap in slightly over a second. Unless a car is FLYING and SLAMS on their brakes, they PROBABLY won't encroach on that 10 foot buffer at any significant speed. And if they DO hit and break your bike, you get a new one.
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Old 07-14-15, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by corrado33
If they DO hit the car, you're probably going to get hit even if you ARE beside the car instead of behind it.
I see it once a week. Cars right next to me get hit and it has no effect on me, other than making me laugh. I used to run a video camera and have proof. Here is just one of them:

https://vimeo.com/album/2757727/video/67094914
And if they DO hit and break your bike, you get a new one.
You must live in Beverly Hills if every motorist out there can afford to buy you a new bike, or even has insurance in the first place. Or a current operators license. Unless you just love drama, why put yourself at extra risk?

I have a good friend who was stopped in traffic and a moving van slammed into the back of his SUBURBAN and ruined his neck so he can't work. He was a dentist and can no longer stand up and crane his neck downward all day. What chance do you have on a bike?
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Old 07-14-15, 11:26 AM
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The legality of lane splitting is another topic that can be confusing when it comes to bike laws. DC bike law clearly states it is legal - so in DC, I can legally ride between two lanes full of stopped cars, and wait in the front for the light to change to green. I'm not comfortable with this myself, but I see why other cyclists do it - you buy yourself more time to accelerate to traffic speed. This seems to work best in rush hour conditions where cars can't go faster than 25 mph because of the heavy traffic volume. Yes, you risk annoying a motorist because from his point of view, you're cutting in front of him. OTOH, if you stay in the middle of the lane while waiting for the traffic light, when the light turns green, the cars can go from 0 to 20 mph much faster than you can on your bike, so you'll annoy the motorist immediately behind you. Can't win either way, it seems! Also, in DC, it can be unsafe to ride on the sidewalk to avoid the cars, because at rush hour, they're full of people walking to/from public transportation, their parked cars, or whatever. Within DC's Central Business District (this includes the National Mall and sidewalks around certain monuments), it is actually illegal to ride on the sidewalk and apparently there are "bike cops" that lurk around, ready to hand infractions to cyclists at rush hour.

In VA, it is illegal to ride between lanes. However, there is this passage in VA bike law that says this:

Bicyclists may overtake and pass another vehicle only when safe to do so. Bicyclists may pass another vehicle on the right or left, and they may stay in the same lane, change lanes, or ride off the road if necessary for safe passing. Please note that passing motor vehicles on the right side may be extremely dangerous if the motorist does not see the bicyclist and attempts a right turn.

So apparently a cyclist can ride between cars in VA to pass stopped cars, as long as he/she stays in one lane at a time. Borderline lane-splitting, but not quite.
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Old 07-14-15, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
If you are straddling your bike with one or two feet on the ground behind a car at a red light, you are the definition of a sitting duck.
Only if you're not paying attention and prepared to evacuate. Which you should always be doing NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE POSITIONED!

Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I see it once a week. Cars right next to me get hit and it has no effect on me, other than making me laugh. I used to run a video camera and have proof. Here is just one of them:
Another sitting duck CAR hit at a light... imagine that. This doesn't prove a bike would have been hit had they been in the same position, (cyclist garners more attention than another car) or that they can't be / aren't hit while sitting to the side in their happy "safe" zone.
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Old 07-14-15, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Only if you're not paying attention and prepared to evacuate. Which you should always be doing NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE POSITIONED!



Another sitting duck CAR hit at a light... imagine that. This doesn't prove a bike would have been hit had they been in the same position, (cyclist garners more attention than another car) or that they can't be / aren't hit while sitting to the side in their happy "safe" zone.
I love that brilliant reaction time... you must be an outstanding athlete. So in seconds, you can evaluate what is happening and then make a quick evacuation and be right every time. Wow. I think some of us cyclists are merely human.
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Old 07-14-15, 02:35 PM
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I usually end up waiting behind a car at a red light when I commute by bike in the morning - partly because lane-splitting is technically illegal in my state, and it's really not necessary. I have no other realistic alternative to get to the MUP from my house other than ride on the road. The sidewalk is full of people walking to the bus stops or just standing around them, so riding on the sidewalk is out, until I cross the busy 3-lane/direction street that I need to cross to get to the sidewalk/"access MUP" that connects to the main one.

Maybe that makes me a sitting duck, but it can't be helped. If I'm rear-ended by a car behind me, the car in front of me will also be rear-ended. I have no doubt that what keeps me alive as a cyclist or pedestrian is the fact that most motorists do not want anything to touch their cars - that is their main incentive to not randomly rear-end anybody or anything they please, whenever they please like in Grand Theft Auto or bumper cars at carnivals.

Oh well, every time I step out of my house, I risk life and limb one way or another. Driving to work is no less dangerous, and so is taking the subway.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 07-14-15 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 07-14-15, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
Maybe that makes me a sitting duck, but it can't be helped. If I'm rear-ended by a car behind me, the car in front of me will also be rear-ended. I have no doubt that what keeps me alive as a cyclist or pedestrian is the fact that most motorists do not want anything to touch their cars - that is their main incentive to not randomly rear-end anybody or anything they please, whenever they please like in Grand Theft Auto or bumper cars at carnivals.
It helps that my car is a beat to hell 1997 Saturn, with at least some damage to every panel from the previous owners. Other drivers don't even want to get close in case it's contagious.
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Old 07-14-15, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Right. It's random to drivers because it's contrary to the rules of the road. Common cyclist behavior truly leaves motorists wondering what the heck they are doing / going to do. When in the lane acting like any other vehicle our intention becomes quite clear.

I notice a HUGE difference with how I'm treated while stopped in line at a light. When in my car, I often see drivers behind fly up at speed, brake late and hard, stopping very close to my rear. On the bike it's the complete opposite. The sight of a cyclist causes them to use MORE caution, come up slower and stay farther back. Being rear ended in a stopped car is much more likely in my experience. Especially considering that while on the bike you can move out of the way if necessary... something you CAN"T usually do in a car.



Or, the motorist would have taken notice of something much more unusual than just another car, and slowed earlier. Or, since you wisely monitor your mirror while stopped, you'd have seen it in time and been able to move out of line and avoided a collision.
If this 'unusual' thing were actually a thing then cyclists would only die when we run red-lights or misjudge a left hand turn in front of oncoming traffic. I think we can agree those are not the only ways cyclists are killed, so to say that a cyclist stopped behind a car is unusual and therefore won't get hit is a complete straw-man argument. I agree that we are unusual, but that doesn't make me any more or less of a sitting duck to any motorists that could potentially hit me. To rear-end someone who was stopped at a light means that person was distracted in any one of one million ways. Maybe more people are attentive when a cyclist is present, I might agree with you there, but to essentially say 100% of people are attentive to stopped cyclists and we cannot be rear ended is impossible.

And your argument about being 100% attentive to what's coming up behind me, then jumping out of the way to safety should they show now signs of stopping is completely laughable (almost troll-ish). When I need to I'll ask the rear-ending car to wait while I unclip from my bike and find another traffic lane that's safe for me to jump into.

Last edited by italianstallion; 07-14-15 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 07-14-15, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
It helps that my car is a beat to hell 1997 Saturn, with at least some damage to every panel from the previous owners. Other drivers don't even want to get close in case it's contagious.
When I was learning to drive, one advice I got was to avoid beat up looking cars, because "the driver got in a lot of accidents and might hit your car too".
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Old 07-14-15, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
I love that brilliant reaction time... you must be an outstanding athlete. So in seconds, you can evaluate what is happening and then make a quick evacuation and be right every time. Wow. I think some of us cyclists are merely human.
It's not super human athletics at all. As I already posted, by far the vast majority drive up extra slow, from far back. The few who don't will be noticed with plenty of time remaining. In this case I'll look back at them, which is one of the most effective signals a cyclist has. Not wait until I have to jump to safety. (which I've never had to do yet) Really, it's not that dangerous mixing with traffic according to the rules.

If it's so likely to be hit this way why have I (and others) not had it happen? Not even any close calls. IN YEARS!

Originally Posted by italianstallion
If this 'unusual' thing were actually a thing then cyclists would only die when we run red-lights or misjudge a left hand turn in front of oncoming traffic. I think we can agree those are not the only ways cyclists are killed, so to say that a cyclist stopped behind a car is unusual and therefore won't get hit is a complete straw-man argument. I agree that we are unusual, but that doesn't make me any more or less of a sitting duck to any motorists that could potentially hit me. To rear-end someone who was stopped at a light means that person was distracted in any one of one million ways. Maybe more people are attentive when a cyclist is present, I might agree with you there, but to essentially say 100% of people are attentive to stopped cyclists and we cannot be rear ended is impossible.
Nothing in traffic safety is 100% or impossible, and I never insinuated such. The "unusual" thing that garners motorist attention is a cyclist smack in the lane. At least around here it's not common, so it makes one stand out greatly. And we all know that motorists DON"T want to hit us.

And your argument about being 100% attentive to what's coming up behind me, then jumping out of the way to safety should they show now signs of stopping is completely laughable (almost troll-ish). When I need to I'll ask the rear-ending car to wait while I unclip from my bike and find another traffic lane that's safe for me to jump into.
See my response to gene above. You're the one making a straw man with your comment about asking a "rear ending car" (?) for you to wait and unclip. Although it was somewhat humorous, so I'll give you that.
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Old 07-15-15, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
When I was learning to drive, one advice I got was to avoid beat up looking cars, because "the driver got in a lot of accidents and might hit your car too".
I'm still trying to figure out how he scuffed and scratched the roof so badly. Not like a rollover, just more like he had people in studded leather wrestling on top of it or something.

Although the real reason to avoid them is more along the lines of "this guy couldn't care less about his paint job."
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