Dangers of texting drivers....any data?
#26
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More importantly you're talking a subset or riders who not only are brain damaged children on a good day, but are pulling stupid stunts with minimal experience and handling skills. Pretty much the only way you could ask for a worse combination is if the kids were texting no handed while riding...which I have seen done.
I'm 42... I have a phd from an Ivy League school and I ride bmx bikes in addition to commuting, road cycling, and other types of cycling. I'm certainly not brain dead, nor are most of the kids I know who ride.
Last edited by mihlbach; 07-17-15 at 07:16 PM.
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Are you sure? After all you're posting on BF.
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Who is texting? Around here they're back on their phones again.
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Since so many people seem to want new laws, how about this one. Anyone that causes an accident while on their cell phone automatically loses their drivers license for 6 months.
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We need to do everything possible to discourage of texting (I'm less concerned about talking on the phone than many others) while driving, but we have to be careful not to create a more serious problem. Unless hit and run penalties are ramped up first, any increased penalties for accidents are going to push a bubble out in that direction.
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Assuming your premise that people want or we need new laws (not sure I do on either point), the problem is that harsh penalties increase the likelihood of a hit and run. One of the laws that people keep forgetting about, and politicians keep violating is the law of unintended consequences.
We need to do everything possible to discourage of texting (I'm less concerned about talking on the phone than many others) while driving, but we have to be careful not to create a more serious problem. Unless hit and run penalties are ramped up first, any increased penalties for accidents are going to push a bubble out in that direction.
We need to do everything possible to discourage of texting (I'm less concerned about talking on the phone than many others) while driving, but we have to be careful not to create a more serious problem. Unless hit and run penalties are ramped up first, any increased penalties for accidents are going to push a bubble out in that direction.
Thing is many States already make it illegal to use a cellphone while driving... And those laws are basically unenforced, unless you get pulled over for something else.
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A classic example is dumping. Cities often raise dumping fees to raise dough or at cover their costs. Sounds reasonable, except that when you have high fees for legal dumping at the town dump, you end up with illegal dumping all over the place.
I'm sorry I don't have an easy answer, but I'm not ready to grab the first easy answer that comes along.
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When I was a kid, back in the 50's, we rode where we wanted with no hesitation and never looked half the time. In and out of traffic, either side of the street, sidewalks, etc. No place was off limits. It's a wonder we survived.
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That's when you give up, and talk to some of the kids and parents directly.
Sadly the whole texting brouhaha is highly exaggerated and making people paranoid. Yes, it does cause an increase in accidents, but it's not a sea change, and the problems that exist always existed because drivers were always driving distracted, whether it was fiddling with the radio, eating a bagel and coffee, turning around to yell at their children, putting on makeup, and even reading the newspaper. Nothing's changed and out roads and streets are roughly as safe (or dangerous) as they've been for years. We just pin different labels on the causes when writing accident reports.
Sadly the whole texting brouhaha is highly exaggerated and making people paranoid. Yes, it does cause an increase in accidents, but it's not a sea change, and the problems that exist always existed because drivers were always driving distracted, whether it was fiddling with the radio, eating a bagel and coffee, turning around to yell at their children, putting on makeup, and even reading the newspaper. Nothing's changed and out roads and streets are roughly as safe (or dangerous) as they've been for years. We just pin different labels on the causes when writing accident reports.
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I would actually add to the penalty that the person can no longer legally use a cell phone - and I'd make it for a year - and their name gets put on a list that cell phone carriers must check before offering service. That threat might actually cause people to think twice about it.
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I definitely disagree that cell phones haven't resulted in a sea change in the overall hazard level for cyclists - it's a statistical fact that nowadays, cell phone distraction rivals drunk driving as the largest cause of auto accidents in general - and while drunk driving happens mostly at night - cell phone use in the car happens mostly during the day time when most of us ride. It is a fact that drivers distracted by cell phone use while driving is the single greatest safety threat for recreational cyclists on public roads.
However, if you believe I'm wrong on that point, feel free to ride against traffic or on the sidewalk, or abandon the roads entirely. For my part, while I agree about the risks of driving while texting, I'll continue to take my chances on the right. In short, there may be a storm, but the sky isn't falling.
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#37
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And yet, where are all these accidents? The overall accident rate is not rising dramatically. And more to the point that the OP is dealing with, it certainly isn't rising dramatically enough for bicyclists to abandon the right side of the road and play dodge-em on the left.
However, if you believe I'm wrong on that point, feel free to ride against traffic or on the sidewalk, or abandon the roads entirely. For my part, while I agree about the risks of driving while texting, I'll continue to take my chances on the right. In short, there may be a storm, but the sky isn't falling.
However, if you believe I'm wrong on that point, feel free to ride against traffic or on the sidewalk, or abandon the roads entirely. For my part, while I agree about the risks of driving while texting, I'll continue to take my chances on the right. In short, there may be a storm, but the sky isn't falling.
I certainly don't believe that riding against traffic is the solution. And as for mainly abandoning riding on the roads - unfortunately, Multi-use bike paths have their own set of hazards - mainly blind turns, and pedestrians and other cyclists who are oblivious to the need to stay on their side of the path around those blind turns.
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Where are all these accidents? In actual fact, the accident rate due to drunk driving has dropped precipitously, largely due to the activism of MADD, and the fact that it has now become much less socially acceptable to do so. Cell phone distraction has taken up the slack and more. ....
You and others are writing about cell phone risks per se, which is something different.
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I definitely disagree that cell phones haven't resulted in a sea change in the overall hazard level for cyclists - it's a statistical fact that nowadays, cell phone distraction rivals drunk driving as the largest cause of auto accidents in general - and while drunk driving happens mostly at night - cell phone use in the car happens mostly during the day time when most of us ride. It is a fact that drivers distracted by cell phone use while driving is the single greatest safety threat for recreational cyclists on public roads.
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This has become an apples and oranges thread. I'm writing to the original question, which is whether cell phones have changed the overall risks enough to justify riding on the left. And to that point is the data that the overall accident rate is virtually unchanged.
You and others are writing about cell phone risks per se, which is something different.
You and others are writing about cell phone risks per se, which is something different.
#41
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Nothing wrong with it, I simply made the apples and oranges reference because people quote my references to no overall change, and hop to cell phone rants. If they disagree with my contention that the overall risks haven't changed enough to justify riding on the left, I'm ready to do it. OTOH if they want to argue about dealing with texting while driving, I'm willing to discuss that (up to a point). But they're separate and distinct arguments.
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I guess I am. Read what I wrote. I'm not endorsing texting while driving, nor am I saying that texting isn't (probably) leading to an increase in accidents. What I am saying is that this newest form of distracted driving is just another in a long standing pattern, and not a sea change in road safety. Certainly not enough of a change to support the argument for switching sides and riding bikes on the left.
Like with all things, the media take the newest hot issue and focus plenty of attention on it, which has he effect of stirring up fears in disproportion to the problem. Distracted is a problem, it's just not a new problem.
Like with all things, the media take the newest hot issue and focus plenty of attention on it, which has he effect of stirring up fears in disproportion to the problem. Distracted is a problem, it's just not a new problem.
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#45
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I suspect this is a more accurate picture of the real environment out there on the road:
https://medium.com/@chris_urmson/the...2-8d5e2990101b
National crashes-per-miles-driven rates are currently calculated on police-reported crashes. Yet there are millions of fender benders every year that go unreported and uncounted — potentially as many as 55% of all crashes, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
https://medium.com/@chris_urmson/the...2-8d5e2990101b
National crashes-per-miles-driven rates are currently calculated on police-reported crashes. Yet there are millions of fender benders every year that go unreported and uncounted — potentially as many as 55% of all crashes, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
#46
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I don't think there's any serious debate over whether cell phones (and other sources of distraction) are a problem. The debate there is about how to manage it.
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#48
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At your suggestion, I scrolled back and couldn't find any. The closest I came was myself, but only if you misread my posts.
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Nothing wrong with it, I simply made the apples and oranges reference because people quote my references to no overall change, and hop to cell phone rants. If they disagree with my contention that the overall risks haven't changed enough to justify riding on the left, I'm ready to do it. OTOH if they want to argue about dealing with texting while driving, I'm willing to discuss that (up to a point). But they're separate and distinct arguments.
In addition, my contention is that there are few (if any) significant "statistical facts" or any other credible evidence that the alleged "increased risk" to cyclists from cell phone use justifies the hysterical ranting that appears almost daily on this topic on numerous threads on BF, as well as other sources of media blathering/pontificating.
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In addition, my contention is that there are few (if any) significant "statistical facts" or any other credible evidence that the alleged "increased risk" to cyclists from cell phone use justifies the hysterical ranting that appears almost daily on this topic on numerous threads on BF, as well as other sources of media blathering/pontificating.