SF Cyclists protest crackdown by stopping at every stop sign
#51
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Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
I saw no coercion in the article . . . did you even read the article?
If this is your reaction to people obeying the law, how do you respond when they don't?
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#53
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Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
#54
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I have spent quite a bit of time in and around SF; however not as much lately, as my family members there have moved to Oakland. By the way, roads predated cars by a longshot. Roads are for people. It is true that in, very, recent times people have primarily traveled on roads in cars; but it does not change the reality that roads are for people, not cars.
These cyclists are clear that they want vehicular roadways to conform to them, which is interesting because they are not the reason the roads were built, and in the minority relative to vehicles. To say something like stop signs actually hinder bicycle safety...well that's just SF stereotyping itself yet again, trying to be the hipster community which demands that it alone can redefine societal norms just for the sake of doing it. That city can't even follow state laws, and is proud of that for some reason. Their recent troubles on pier 14 say it all.
Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
Yeah I was wondering that myself.
Last edited by jfowler85; 08-06-15 at 02:26 PM.
#55
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During Pedalpalooza in Portland, I saw a crowd of bicycles about 10 blocks long and 5 bikes wide.
No doubt a few hit some stale yellow lights, and more than one bike made it through a stop sign at a time.
If they all took the lane, and had gone one at a time though the stop signs, it could have taken hours to get everyone down the road. Perhaps they would have been better off spreading out to a crowd moving 10 blocks wide
Sometimes it is best for the crowd to just go and try to open the streets up to traffic as quickly as possible.
The classic bike ride I was on, we only had about 10 to 20 riders... not too big of a group, but trying to allow cars to pass and inserting cars into the middle of the group didn't work well.
Fortunately most of the Portland drivers seemed to have a fair amount of patience.
As far as rolling stops, I suppose most tickets are given when there is no traffic, because at least the attentive cyclists will stop for cross traffic. So the tickets become an annoyance for the safety conscious riders who DO STOP when necessary.
No doubt a few hit some stale yellow lights, and more than one bike made it through a stop sign at a time.
If they all took the lane, and had gone one at a time though the stop signs, it could have taken hours to get everyone down the road. Perhaps they would have been better off spreading out to a crowd moving 10 blocks wide
Sometimes it is best for the crowd to just go and try to open the streets up to traffic as quickly as possible.
The classic bike ride I was on, we only had about 10 to 20 riders... not too big of a group, but trying to allow cars to pass and inserting cars into the middle of the group didn't work well.
Fortunately most of the Portland drivers seemed to have a fair amount of patience.
As far as rolling stops, I suppose most tickets are given when there is no traffic, because at least the attentive cyclists will stop for cross traffic. So the tickets become an annoyance for the safety conscious riders who DO STOP when necessary.
#56
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#57
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Understood, I was simply agreeing that there are regional subcultures where a show of concern is more important than achieving any positive results.
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If your municipal government banned banned bicycles from the road altogether, would you protest or curl up in ball, secure in the perceived moral superiority of obeying whatever law happens to get passed? Even as, of course, you continue to ride - as you've stated you 'take certain liberties'. I suppose you just want to continue to break the law when it suits, but don't want to do the hard work of helping to get those laws changed to better suit the populace. Perhaps you don't tend to attract police attention, through some...virtue.
Are voters hoping for some change 'spoiled brats' as well? Or does that particular form of engagement earn your tolerance?
#59
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Are you suggesting that engaged citizens, protesting in a completely legal and orderly way, are 'spoiled brats'?
If your municipal government banned banned bicycles from the road altogether, would you protest or curl up in ball, secure in the perceived moral superiority of obeying whatever law happens to get passed? Even as, of course, you continue to ride - as you've stated you 'take certain liberties'. I suppose you just want to continue to break the law when it suits, but don't want to do the hard work of helping to get those laws changed to better suit the populace. Perhaps you don't tend to attract police attention, through some...virtue.
Are voters hoping for some change 'spoiled brats' as well? Or does that particular form of engagement earn your tolerance?
If your municipal government banned banned bicycles from the road altogether, would you protest or curl up in ball, secure in the perceived moral superiority of obeying whatever law happens to get passed? Even as, of course, you continue to ride - as you've stated you 'take certain liberties'. I suppose you just want to continue to break the law when it suits, but don't want to do the hard work of helping to get those laws changed to better suit the populace. Perhaps you don't tend to attract police attention, through some...virtue.
Are voters hoping for some change 'spoiled brats' as well? Or does that particular form of engagement earn your tolerance?
#60
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I agree, avoidance is probably your only option to maintain this interesting worldview at this point.
#61
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Picketing the police station or town hall would be legitimate "protest" of those actually responsible......but not as fun, or spiteful enough?
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#63
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So does the protest's "legitimacy" in your eyes increase proportionally as its potential effectiveness decreases, or is that just a happy coincidence for you?
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#64
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One of the biggest complaints motorists have about cyclists is their supposed lawlessness, "protesting" a crackdown on that type of behavior only reinforces that stereotype. Stupidity like this only sabotages legitimate advocacy.
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Most of the victims probably didn't even know what was going on, but once they find out it was done in retribution for a crackdown on stop violations, then it most certainly will. Great way to sabotage positive, and productive changes.
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I disagree, I think they will go away thinking that it is obviously stupid for cyclists to be stoping at each stopsign.
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I guess they're different in your town. I know what kind of drivers you're talking about - I encounter them a lot more in DC proper than in Alexandria. They wave me through, then start moving immediately while I'm still crossing the intersection.
In Old Town Alexandria, they're well-behaved. If I refuse to move when they wave me through, I waste everybody's time.
In Old Town Alexandria, they're well-behaved. If I refuse to move when they wave me through, I waste everybody's time.
You should! The Old Town part is very bike-friendly and has a bunch of bike shops near MUPs or bike-friendly streets. Mount Vernon Trail is a nice MUP to ride on, as long as you watch out for the usual things (dogs, silent-passing cyclists, etc.), and it connects to Four Mile Run Trail, which in turn connects to WO&D Trail. The newest trail in the area, Potomac Ave. Trail isn't quite as scenic, but provides bike-friendly access to the Potomac Yards Shopping Center - I ride on it on my evening commute to avoid the majority of joggers, baby stroller pushers, tourists, etc. on the Mt. Vernon Trail.
Oh and I forgot to mention there is a concrete-separated MUP on the Woodrow Wilson bridge to National Harbor. Even if there's nothing of interest to you in National Harbor, the view from the bridge is pretty nice.
Oh and I forgot to mention there is a concrete-separated MUP on the Woodrow Wilson bridge to National Harbor. Even if there's nothing of interest to you in National Harbor, the view from the bridge is pretty nice.
If there is a motorist behind me, that wants to turn right. I will get to the left, so they can pass me, while I wait. If there is no right turn at the stop sign I am at. They can pass me on the left after I proceed forward.
#70
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I was referring to anywhere. I should have mentioned that. Regardless of whether I am in Olde Town Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax, DC, Bethesda, Kensington, Rockville, Gaithersburg, Germantown, Olney, or even Boyds. Maybe I heard of too many people hitting the gas. Instead of the brake when trying to park at places like . Motorists' could do the same thing at a stop sign.
It's been a shock to me too, because it's so different outside of Old Town. If you commuted through Old Town twice a week like I do, you'd be more inclined to believe me.
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I don't blame you if you find it hard to believe, but I'm not lying when I say that in Old Town Alexandria, the motorists will not only wave me through a stop sign intersection, but they will also actually wait for me to cross the intersection before moving.
It's been a shock to me too, because it's so different outside of Old Town. If you commuted through Old Town twice a week like I do, you'd be more inclined to believe me.
It's been a shock to me too, because it's so different outside of Old Town. If you commuted through Old Town twice a week like I do, you'd be more inclined to believe me.
#72
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I dunno, maybe as an "avid cyclist" you ought to learn how to use your equipment. I can downshift simply by twisting my wrist and easing up on the pedals for a second. Something like that might work for you, too.
#73
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I fully believe you. When it comes to stop signs, instead of traffic lights. I don't trust anyone behind the wheel. I have been down to Olde Towne before. It is much calmer. It is outside of Olde Towne, that it gets' back to 'normal'. Olde Towne Gaithersburg is just like the rest of Gaithersburg and Rockville, a pain.
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What people should understand is that cyclists running stops signs and red lights in SF has caused a huge backlash from pedestrians. In the last 5 years or so 2 pedestrians have been killed by cyclists running stop signs or red lights.
The police are responding to safety issues raised by larger community due to cyclist behavior, not picking on cyclists per se.
The police are responding to safety issues raised by larger community due to cyclist behavior, not picking on cyclists per se.
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#75
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You would be hard pressed to find a means of transportation that can beat those numbers.