Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

SF Cyclists protest crackdown by stopping at every stop sign

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

SF Cyclists protest crackdown by stopping at every stop sign

Old 08-06-15, 01:53 PM
  #51  
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
No one got "their wrists slapped" people really do have the right to obey the law. Of course, the people around them were unhappy to be inconvenienced by people behaving in a law abiding manner and demonstrating just what that looks like.

I saw no coercion in the article . . . did you even read the article?

If this is your reaction to people obeying the law, how do you respond when they don't?
Robert C is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 01:56 PM
  #52  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240

Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
I suppose ones point of view would make semantics more important.....to those who believe that the end justifies the means, but are unwilling to acknowledge the negative impact on the innocent, or those they supposedly represent.
Semantics? Or accuracy?
TobinH is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:00 PM
  #53  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240

Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
Who is fighting social injustice? Who are the 'spoiled brats'? Who got their 'wrists slapped'? Who was 'caught'?
TobinH is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:14 PM
  #54  
Senior Member
 
jfowler85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zinj
Posts: 1,826

Bikes: '93 911 Turbo 3.6

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Robert C
I have spent quite a bit of time in and around SF; however not as much lately, as my family members there have moved to Oakland. By the way, roads predated cars by a longshot. Roads are for people. It is true that in, very, recent times people have primarily traveled on roads in cars; but it does not change the reality that roads are for people, not cars.
The roads we use are purpose built for vehicular traffic. Pedestrian traffic gets sidewalks and pathways built to less stringent specifications and materials which do not require the cyclical load of 3500 pounds all day long...the pedestrian road I use every day is actually hardpack dirt. What you are asserting is equivalent to saying hospitals are built for people...hospitals are built for sick people, an important distinction.

These cyclists are clear that they want vehicular roadways to conform to them, which is interesting because they are not the reason the roads were built, and in the minority relative to vehicles. To say something like stop signs actually hinder bicycle safety...well that's just SF stereotyping itself yet again, trying to be the hipster community which demands that it alone can redefine societal norms just for the sake of doing it. That city can't even follow state laws, and is proud of that for some reason. Their recent troubles on pier 14 say it all.

Originally Posted by kickstart
Or appreciate the difference between fighting social injustice, and spoiled brats who don't like getting their wrists slapped when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar.


And for the record, I support the adoption of Idaho stop laws, just not through coercion.
I also take certain liberties, but accept the possible consequences of choices I make of my own free will.
The fact that I am commenting in a very sarcastic manner should alert you to the fact that I appreciate the difference. Otherwise I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.

Originally Posted by TobinH
Who is fighting social injustice? Who are the 'spoiled brats'? Who got their 'wrists slapped'? Who was 'caught'?
Yeah I was wondering that myself.

Last edited by jfowler85; 08-06-15 at 02:26 PM.
jfowler85 is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:38 PM
  #55  
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
During Pedalpalooza in Portland, I saw a crowd of bicycles about 10 blocks long and 5 bikes wide.

No doubt a few hit some stale yellow lights, and more than one bike made it through a stop sign at a time.

If they all took the lane, and had gone one at a time though the stop signs, it could have taken hours to get everyone down the road. Perhaps they would have been better off spreading out to a crowd moving 10 blocks wide

Sometimes it is best for the crowd to just go and try to open the streets up to traffic as quickly as possible.

The classic bike ride I was on, we only had about 10 to 20 riders... not too big of a group, but trying to allow cars to pass and inserting cars into the middle of the group didn't work well.

Fortunately most of the Portland drivers seemed to have a fair amount of patience.

As far as rolling stops, I suppose most tickets are given when there is no traffic, because at least the attentive cyclists will stop for cross traffic. So the tickets become an annoyance for the safety conscious riders who DO STOP when necessary.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:42 PM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by TobinH
Who is fighting social injustice? Who are the 'spoiled brats'? Who got their 'wrists slapped'? Who was 'caught'?
The spoiled brats are those "protesting" the crackdown on cyclists running stops.
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:50 PM
  #57  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by jfowler85

The fact that I am commenting in a very sarcastic manner should alert you to the fact that I appreciate the difference..
Understood, I was simply agreeing that there are regional subcultures where a show of concern is more important than achieving any positive results.
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 02:55 PM
  #58  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240

Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
The spoiled brats are those "protesting" the crackdown on cyclists running stops.
Are you suggesting that engaged citizens, protesting in a completely legal and orderly way, are 'spoiled brats'?

If your municipal government banned banned bicycles from the road altogether, would you protest or curl up in ball, secure in the perceived moral superiority of obeying whatever law happens to get passed? Even as, of course, you continue to ride - as you've stated you 'take certain liberties'. I suppose you just want to continue to break the law when it suits, but don't want to do the hard work of helping to get those laws changed to better suit the populace. Perhaps you don't tend to attract police attention, through some...virtue.

Are voters hoping for some change 'spoiled brats' as well? Or does that particular form of engagement earn your tolerance?
TobinH is offline  
Old 08-06-15, 03:24 PM
  #59  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by TobinH
Are you suggesting that engaged citizens, protesting in a completely legal and orderly way, are 'spoiled brats'?

If your municipal government banned banned bicycles from the road altogether, would you protest or curl up in ball, secure in the perceived moral superiority of obeying whatever law happens to get passed? Even as, of course, you continue to ride - as you've stated you 'take certain liberties'. I suppose you just want to continue to break the law when it suits, but don't want to do the hard work of helping to get those laws changed to better suit the populace. Perhaps you don't tend to attract police attention, through some...virtue.

Are voters hoping for some change 'spoiled brats' as well? Or does that particular form of engagement earn your tolerance?
You're now just resorting to smoke and mirrors to justify victimizing innocent people to insulate scofflaws from the consequences of their actions. Your hyperbolic rhetoric has no value.
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-07-15, 11:27 AM
  #60  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240

Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
You're now just resorting to smoke and mirrors to justify victimizing innocent people to insulate scofflaws from the consequences of their actions. Your hyperbolic rhetoric has no value.
I agree, avoidance is probably your only option to maintain this interesting worldview at this point.
TobinH is offline  
Old 08-07-15, 02:18 PM
  #61  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by TobinH
I agree, avoidance is probably your only option to maintain this interesting worldview at this point.
Sorry, not my "worldview", just my opinion of people who intentionally create an artificial set of circumstances, with the goal of victimizing innocent people in retaliation to a crackdown on cyclists who fail to obey traffic controls. Just this, nothing more.

Picketing the police station or town hall would be legitimate "protest" of those actually responsible......but not as fun, or spiteful enough?
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 07:47 AM
  #62  
Senior Member
 
jfowler85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zinj
Posts: 1,826

Bikes: '93 911 Turbo 3.6

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Understood, I was simply agreeing that there are regional subcultures where a show of concern is more important than achieving any positive results.
Fair enough.
jfowler85 is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 08:10 AM
  #63  
incazzare.
 
lostarchitect's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Catskills/Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 6,978

Bikes: See sig

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 38 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Picketing the police station or town hall would be legitimate "protest" of those actually responsible......but not as fun, or spiteful enough?

So does the protest's "legitimacy" in your eyes increase proportionally as its potential effectiveness decreases, or is that just a happy coincidence for you?
__________________
1964 JRJ (Bob Jackson), 1973 Wes Mason, 1974 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1986 Schwinn High Sierra, 2000ish Colian (Colin Laing), 2011 Dick Chafe, 2013 Velo Orange Pass Hunter
lostarchitect is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 09:58 AM
  #64  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by lostarchitect
So does the protest's "legitimacy" in your eyes increase proportionally as its potential effectiveness decreases, or is that just a happy coincidence for you?
No, targeting those who are in a position of responsibility, not innocent victims is what makes it legitimate. If that's less effective, too bad, put in more effort, or perhaps get involved with real advocacy.

One of the biggest complaints motorists have about cyclists is their supposed lawlessness, "protesting" a crackdown on that type of behavior only reinforces that stereotype. Stupidity like this only sabotages legitimate advocacy.
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 10:21 AM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
One of the biggest complaints motorists have about cyclists is their supposed lawlessness, "protesting" a crackdown on that type of behavior only reinforces that stereotype.
How does obeying the law, in a highly visible manner, reinforce the stereotype of lawlessness?
Robert C is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 10:34 AM
  #66  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Robert C
How does obeying the law, in a highly visible manner, reinforce the stereotype of lawlessness?
Most of the victims probably didn't even know what was going on, but once they find out it was done in retribution for a crackdown on stop violations, then it most certainly will. Great way to sabotage positive, and productive changes.
kickstart is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 11:24 AM
  #67  
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
Most of the victims probably didn't even know what was going on, but once they find out it was done in retribution for a crackdown on stop violations, then it most certainly will. Great way to sabotage positive, and productive changes.

I disagree, I think they will go away thinking that it is obviously stupid for cyclists to be stoping at each stopsign.
Robert C is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 08:17 AM
  #68  
Senior Member
 
jfowler85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zinj
Posts: 1,826

Bikes: '93 911 Turbo 3.6

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Robert C
I disagree, I think they will go away thinking that it is obviously stupid for cyclists to be stoping at each stopsign.
Probably more like "what a bunch of wankers...wtf is the starbucks around here? Siri is saying it's on this block somewhere..."
jfowler85 is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 08:35 PM
  #69  
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
I guess they're different in your town. I know what kind of drivers you're talking about - I encounter them a lot more in DC proper than in Alexandria. They wave me through, then start moving immediately while I'm still crossing the intersection.

In Old Town Alexandria, they're well-behaved. If I refuse to move when they wave me through, I waste everybody's time.
I was referring to anywhere. I should have mentioned that. Regardless of whether I am in Olde Town Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax, DC, Bethesda, Kensington, Rockville, Gaithersburg, Germantown, Olney, or even Boyds. Maybe I heard of too many people hitting the gas. Instead of the brake when trying to park at places like . Motorists' could do the same thing at a stop sign.
Originally Posted by Essex
Old Town Alexandria is a great place. Good manners abound. Next time I'm there - I'll be bringing my bicycle.
That is very true.
Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
You should! The Old Town part is very bike-friendly and has a bunch of bike shops near MUPs or bike-friendly streets. Mount Vernon Trail is a nice MUP to ride on, as long as you watch out for the usual things (dogs, silent-passing cyclists, etc.), and it connects to Four Mile Run Trail, which in turn connects to WO&D Trail. The newest trail in the area, Potomac Ave. Trail isn't quite as scenic, but provides bike-friendly access to the Potomac Yards Shopping Center - I ride on it on my evening commute to avoid the majority of joggers, baby stroller pushers, tourists, etc. on the Mt. Vernon Trail.

Oh and I forgot to mention there is a concrete-separated MUP on the Woodrow Wilson bridge to National Harbor. Even if there's nothing of interest to you in National Harbor, the view from the bridge is pretty nice.
I agree with your emphatic recommendation!!
Originally Posted by Rootman
I'm with you there, especially if they are going to be behind me after the turn. Why allow me to go first if you are just going to charge up on my rear and probably pass to close anyway?
Exactly!!
Originally Posted by Daniel4
True but why cause any confusion? I’d rather take my turn as everyone expects. Any drivers behind me can pass properly and safely when the situation permits as should be expected.
If there is a motorist behind me, that wants to turn right. I will get to the left, so they can pass me, while I wait. If there is no right turn at the stop sign I am at. They can pass me on the left after I proceed forward.
Chris516 is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 09:13 PM
  #70  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
GovernorSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Posts: 1,218

Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, Jamis Renegade Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Chris516
I was referring to anywhere. I should have mentioned that. Regardless of whether I am in Olde Town Alexandria, Arlington, Fairfax, DC, Bethesda, Kensington, Rockville, Gaithersburg, Germantown, Olney, or even Boyds. Maybe I heard of too many people hitting the gas. Instead of the brake when trying to park at places like . Motorists' could do the same thing at a stop sign.
I don't blame you if you find it hard to believe, but I'm not lying when I say that in Old Town Alexandria, the motorists will not only wave me through a stop sign intersection, but they will also actually wait for me to cross the intersection before moving.

It's been a shock to me too, because it's so different outside of Old Town. If you commuted through Old Town twice a week like I do, you'd be more inclined to believe me.
GovernorSilver is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 10:18 PM
  #71  
24-Speed Machine
 
Chris516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wash. Grove, MD
Posts: 6,058

Bikes: 2003 Specialized Allez 24-Speed Road Bike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
I don't blame you if you find it hard to believe, but I'm not lying when I say that in Old Town Alexandria, the motorists will not only wave me through a stop sign intersection, but they will also actually wait for me to cross the intersection before moving.

It's been a shock to me too, because it's so different outside of Old Town. If you commuted through Old Town twice a week like I do, you'd be more inclined to believe me.
I fully believe you. When it comes to stop signs, instead of traffic lights. I don't trust anyone behind the wheel. I have been down to Olde Towne before. It is much calmer. It is outside of Olde Towne, that it gets' back to 'normal'. Olde Towne Gaithersburg is just like the rest of Gaithersburg and Rockville, a pain.
Chris516 is offline  
Old 08-12-15, 05:02 AM
  #72  
Senior Member
 
skye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by wrldtraveller
sorry but as a avid cyclist who tend to keep their gear in the heaviest gear selection,

W
I dunno, maybe as an "avid cyclist" you ought to learn how to use your equipment. I can downshift simply by twisting my wrist and easing up on the pedals for a second. Something like that might work for you, too.
skye is offline  
Old 08-12-15, 07:53 AM
  #73  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
GovernorSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington DC Metro Area
Posts: 1,218

Bikes: Breezer Uptown 8, Jamis Renegade Expert

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Chris516
I fully believe you. When it comes to stop signs, instead of traffic lights. I don't trust anyone behind the wheel. I have been down to Olde Towne before. It is much calmer. It is outside of Olde Towne, that it gets' back to 'normal'. Olde Towne Gaithersburg is just like the rest of Gaithersburg and Rockville, a pain.
Oh yeah I'm with you there. However, I usually don't have to worry about motorists waving me through then nearly hitting me outside of Old Town, because nobody waves me through outside of Old Town.
GovernorSilver is offline  
Old 08-12-15, 11:31 AM
  #74  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,855

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2304 Post(s)
Liked 2,740 Times in 1,498 Posts
What people should understand is that cyclists running stops signs and red lights in SF has caused a huge backlash from pedestrians. In the last 5 years or so 2 pedestrians have been killed by cyclists running stop signs or red lights.

The police are responding to safety issues raised by larger community due to cyclist behavior, not picking on cyclists per se.
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is online now  
Old 08-12-15, 11:42 AM
  #75  
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
In the last 5 years or so 2 pedestrians have been killed by cyclists running stop signs or red lights.
That is an astoundingly low number. The bay area has a population between 4.5 and 8.5 Million, depending on what gets included. Two non-participant deaths in five years is a safety record to boast about, not to condemn.

You would be hard pressed to find a means of transportation that can beat those numbers.
Robert C is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.