genec

Bike lanes on 25 MPH roads though... I mean really??? May as well require training wheels on all bikes...

genec

Have done that... it is a blast... along with that whole Bayshore bikeway... there are a few "less than perfect" areas, but otherwise it is damn nice to just get out there and cruise along.

ColaJacket

Where is denying safety a right defined by the US or California Constitution. If you're going to start talking about the rights of people that are trying to deny the safety of others, then you need to show where those rights are defined.

Do they have a right to speak at a public city council meeting? Yes (within reason)

Do they have a right to run for office or vote for the person of their choice? Yes

Do they have a right to deny safety features on roads? No

Can they use their other rights to cause public officials to not add safety features to roads? Yes, but it is not a right.

GH

mr_bill

In what way does 25 mph become utopia?

London, Paris, NYC, Vancouver etc etc etc *ALL* have low speed limits - *AND* bike lanes.

25 mph speed limit is not enough. Traffic *VOLUME* makes a difference too. Look here.

If there is paint on a road, if there are Bots dots on a road, then *somebody* has already made the decision that this road needs traffic control devices.

Diamond lanes are just one more traffic control device.

-mr. bill

genec

It is the speed of residential streets... it is the speed of the street that many of us trained upon as kids, and it is a speed that a skilled cyclist can easily get to and thus maintain perfect pace with MV traffic. Actually considering that the average speed should be lower than the posted speed... it is quite easy for a cyclist to maintain pace with other traffic, if said other traffic is actually not exceeding the posted speed limit... and having cyclists mix with other traffic, will discourage speeding. (yeah yeah, I know... the car drivers become upset, don't know what to do, start driving like idiots... bla bla bla... ) Mixing MV and bike traffic provides a training environment for all road users.

BTW I did look Here... and saw a beautiful place for cyclists to fit right in with the other traffic... no special stripes needed.



Like I said... put BL there and you may as well stripe right to my front door.

mr_bill

I learned on residential streets with a 30 mph speed limit. Our parents let us ride all over those residential streets, with not a lick of paint but an occasional rare stop sign. We were not allowed on "busy road" which had a 30 mph speed limit, but less traffic than your examples on an utopian island.

Good to know that you, like so many others like you, think the roads are only for "skilled cyclists." Though I think the preferred term of art is "competent cyclists."

-mr. bill

mr_bill

What color is the sky in your world?

-mr. bill

Shimagnolo

"Not exceeding the speed limit" means "rush hour" around here.

genec

Blue... and that is exactly the reason that a traffic engineer in San Diego used to reduce a two lane road to one lane... that the few law abiding road users would cause the rest to slow down. Sorry, not my idea... came from others.

genec

Never said that the roads are only for skilled cyclists... merely that skilled cyclists have no problem reaching 25MPH. Most other cyclists have no problem reaching 12-15MPH... which the motorists will just have to tolerate.... just as they have to tolerate other forms of slow traffic... cement trucks, garbage trucks, mail trucks, buses, etc.

mr_bill

You've said you're a skilled cyclist, you don't need a bikelane on a 25 mph road, therefore, nobody needs a bikelane on such a road.

That is not only the gist of your argument, that's your argument in its entirety.

-mr. bill

genec

Sorry Misteer Beel... that is not only not the gist of my argument, but apparently you haven't been paying attention if that is what you feel...

Let's go back to the second page of this discussion where I mention traffic moving at "human speeds" and posted this infamous video...

.be
Then let's visit further down in this thread where I compared the wide unadorned streets of Coronado to that of the environment that Hans Monderman designed and proposed... with minimal markings and signage...

Then I eventually worked my way down to "where most of us learned to ride as kids..." on unadorned 25MPH residential streets... (not even close to invoking the "competent cyclist" argument at all. Which BTW you brought up... and knowing the source of that "competent" crap, I fully disagree...)

But tell you what... I just returned from stately Anacortes WA, (on Fildago Island) where the streets on that island are also marked at 25MPH... and indeed they have a few bike lanes and "back in parking..." very similar to what Coronado wants... it works... it's a bit redundant... as everyone moves about at a nice leisurely 20-25MPH and cyclists ride in BL or out of BL, depending on their need. What Anacortes doesn't have is a regular rush hour of Navy people daily, nor a new "3rd carrier this year..." which no doubt probably exacerbates the traffic situation on Coronado...

So bottom line... let Coronado have all the Bike Lanes that some advocate and city hall feels they need... I still think it's "gilding the Lilly...," but I just don't want to be lumped in with a bunch of little old ladies that probably shouldn't be driving any way. And no matter what I say, folks like you that don't have a clue about the area, are just gonna whine and moan and start throwing around terms like "competent cyclist..." Sheesh.

Ride on.

kickstart

You made me laugh,

Having driven cement, moving, and LTL freight trucks, I can say without any hesitation the average motorist is more tolerant of a cyclist than someone working.

genec

Then 25 MPH roads without bike lanes shouldn't be a big issue in Coronado...

But apparently it is...

kickstart

Maybe, maybe not, but "more tolerant" is setting the bar rather low.

genec

True... it would be nice if the bar was set at "fully cooperative and down right friendly..." which is really the attitude I often encountered on Coronado... at least where I rode. (I didn't tend to ride on 3rd and 4th at rush hour). I did find the locals to be friendly and cooperative... stopping at unsigned intersections to give cyclists the ROW. The speeds I tended to encounter were slow and stately... overall, I'd say the bar in Coronado was generally set higher than just "tolerant."

hoodat

Watch out for the area around the salt ponds. Bad place for thorns.

mr_bill

Again, who made you Rey de Coronado?

-mr. bill