skanking biker

This is not a rant thread. Ijust don;t get it. I am a pretty avid cyclist. I bike to work as much as possible. I encoutner A HOle drivers all the time, as I do other A hole bikers. What I dont undertsand is why some people here hate anyone and everyone who drives a car. Heck a lot of people who cycle need to drive for work, need trucks to haul things, etc. I often need to drive to pick up clients and get to meetings. I can;t stand the soccer mom SUV syndrome, but i just dont get WHY some people categorically hate anyone who drives. I completely agree that people should try and cut down their drive time as much as possible and that those who buy big gas guzzling SUVs to drive the kids to school are idiots, but what about those that have no choice but to drive, who buy fuel efficient vehciles and drive respectfully. As much as i am a cycling advocate, I think some people go overboard sometimes.

twahl

Dude. You're gonna get roasted. I do all the time. The prevailing thought here seems to be that cyclists are free spirits, they are saving the planet, and therefore they are superior by all measures to anyone that drives a car. I could go on, but I won't.

To me advocacy is to advance your cause. Common sense tells us that to do that, you must convince people who don't share your beliefs that your beliefs are valid. Many of the regular readers on this particular forum believe that advocacy means that you take whatever rights you deem appropriate, follow whatever laws you choose, and take up an offensive posture against any that get in your way regardless of their right to do so. Good luck.

edit: you get a mix of this in the commuter forum, a heavy dose in the single speed/fixed gear, and little of it anywhere else.

BadAssBiker

I ride. I also ride CM.

skanking biker

Well that kinda was one of my questions. If you want to get someone interested in something, you shouldnt go insulting them. By being a little more realistic and dare i say more "tolerant", the cyclign advocates would get more people riding just for fun and once you do that, a good percentage of those get hooked and start commuting. However, for someone who is new to this, attackimg their present habits and them and calling them names is a surefire way to turn them off to the sport.

spider-man

It would make cycling a lot more pleasant/safe if there were no cars on the roads.

That said, I don't hate cars or car owners. I'm glad I don't have to have one, but I don't have a problem with people who think they need them.

khuon

Some people always have to be against something in order to be for something else. They are the "versus addicts". It goes beyond the car vs. bike. Even in the world of cycling there exists the versus syndrom for just about anything. Campagnolo vs. Shimano, Road Biking vs. Mountain Biking, Steel vs. Carbon Fiber vs. Aluminum vs. Titanium, Threaded vs. Threadless, Tubes vs. Tubeless, Clincher vs. Tubular, Baggies vs. Tight... you name it, there's somebody against it... and someone for it.... and someone against the someone for something.

skanking biker

Why cant peopel just accept that some people ride for different reasons. Who cares WHY they ride so long as they continue to do so?

dedhed

It kind of reminds me of the gun debates and how most issues in this country are discussed. All you ever here are the two extreme sides of the arguement, when the fact usually is most of the population is somewhere in the middle. As a card carrying NRA member I sure don't need an assault rifle (but it can be fun to empty a 30 round clip on an assault rifle) and don't know anyone who does and wouldn't lose any sleep if they disappeared, but I'll never give up my hunting guns (cold dead hands thing).
I like to ride, did 1100mi last year with some medical off time, I know SLACKER , hope to hit 2K this year, but I'll never give up my vehicles. As a father of 3 who works 22 miles from a 7 am job I try to commute part way as often as possible but have a life which doesn't allow it. Heck I don't own anything in my fleet that gets over 14 MPG and often drive 200 mi a week, but they fit my life situation and are payed for. I commend people who are super green and don't have a car but it doesn't work for me or alot of others.

skanking biker

exactly


There's no way i'm gonna commute 20 miles in a friggin blizzard during a Wisconsin winter

Alphie

I don't hate cars. I do wish people who _could_ do it, would cycle commute more in my area, it would ease pollution a bit and give them a better outlook on life when they get to work. Which is why I cycle commute in the first place.

Roody

I don't hate cars. I hate the way we overuse them.

I don't hate motorists. I hate their lack of imagination and unwillingness to find better ways to get from here to there.

smurfy

I'm for "appropriate use" of motor vehicles. If you need a motor vehicle for work, that's fine. I know someone that needs a pickup truck because he has a side business mowing lawns, trimming trees, etc. I just wouldn't use same truck to run down a mile to the convenience store to get a gallon of milk or whatever that can be easily carried on a bicycle. Leave your F350 one-ton dually in the driveway for a change if you don't absolutely need it. It won't use any gas just sitting there.

This isn't about hating cars. It's about conserving resources, saving the enviroment and having a healthy lifestyle. Why can't people seem to understand that?

dedhed

A voice of reason I can agree with. I think part of it is the faceless nameless nature of the net that makes bashing easy and painless. My one ton sits most of the time except to plow snow, dump runs, and working trips to the land. I don't like that my full size van everyday driver is a gas pig but it carries the family comfortably, tows the camper, hauls all the stuff we need for our life style. Would I like to have another small vehicle which could handle most of the day to day stuff, sure. Can I afford another vehicle, insurance, maintenance etc. Not really, So for now the van is it. I try in other areas to help, compost food scrap, recycle paper, plastic, all kinds of metals. Bike commute when possible, plant trees, clean up the parkway behind my house, buy in bulk where possible. REpair many things instead of throwing them out, turn off lights (Kids need work here), cut my grass less often and don't fertilize or weed kill and just a list of other ways to conserve or help in my small little ways. Now if I could just quit smoking!
P.S. I wish I bought milk one gallon at a time, Darn teens eat food like it grows on farms or something!

Chris L

In this part of the world (and having been here for 10 years +), I've come to assume people are stupid per se. This is purely based on my observations of human behaviour over that time period. The fact that most of the people I encounter when cycling happen to be in cars is purely incidental. If they were all on bikes or on foot, I'd feel exactly the same way.

We all have choices, we can choose where we live, where we work etc etc. If people "have" to drive, it's because they've made choices that put them in that position. It's certainly nobody else's fault (least of all the cyclist at whom they've just shouted a series of expletives).

1. They cost a fortune to acquire -- and lose most of their value remarkably quickly (i.e. as soon as they are taken out of the show room). Not to mention the maintenance costs.
2. They emit noise and air pollution at violent levels.
3. The spaces set aside for them (garages, roads, carparks etc) are just about the ugliest structures ever constructed by mankind, and could be far better utilised with other things.
4. The annual death toll attributable to these things is something that only a good war can compete with.
5. Despite the massive amounts of space set aside for them, and the massive infrastructure created for them (at huge cost), people are still stuck in traffic day after day. The direct cost to the Australian ecomony alone of this is estimated at $11 billion per annum in lost productivity.

That's just the start. I'm sorry, but you asked for it.

That said, I don't resent people who choose to drive. They've made their choice, and that's their business. However, I equally feel no empathy for them either. All I really ask is that they get on with what they're doing, and leave me to get on with what I'm doing. Sadly, many of them seem to have a problem with this. Perhaps the question we should be asking is why do some drivers hate everyone and anyone who rides a bike?

royalflash

I don´t hate people who drive cars. I have a car myself and use it probably once or twice per week for shopping to take trash to the recycling centre.

I just hate cars themselves, There is so much wrong with them on so many levels I dont know where to start.

Maybe we could focus on the stink and pollution that I have to breath whether I want to or not.

Maybe the carnage- cars are the leading cause of death of children up to the age of four. We KNOW they will die but prefer to label them as accidents unforeseen and unpredictable so we can carry on business as usual. Just so long as it happens to someone else´s child.

Maybe the diseases like asthma and cardiovascular problems caused by cars.

Maybe the noise that never stops.

Maybe the social effects like the disintegration of communities and the theft and enclosure of our public spaces.

I could go on but is that not enough?

Dahon.Steve

I'll add a couple of more items that Chris left out.

6. Class Envy --- There are alot of cyclists out there who when you get down to the bottom of it, are just envious for they can't afford a car. It bothers people to see these luxury cars costing 40-70K on the streets when you're riding a used bike worth a fraction of that.

You have to be comfortable with yourself in order not to be envious of that kind of situation. Personally, I'm kind of relieved not having to pay out of my teeth to ride such luxury on our streets. Cars like that cost a bundle. I remember all the problems associated with that kind of motor car from the high repair bills, break-ins, insurance and would will not go back to that again. It was a never ending sea of bills and payments.

I suspect there are many forum members who are living in the city or close by making it very expensive to own a car which is why there is so much dislike for them.

CommuterRun

Actually, it looks like you already have the plan I outlined on another thread recently and am looking to implement this summer. A single vehicle that will do just about everything this family needs a vehicle for, that will be a second vehicle to the bicycles. For us I think a second car, even a high mileage hybrid, would be excessive.

samundsen

Amen. For many years now I've gone by the assumption that all people are stupid until proven otherwise.

I'm among those who hate cars. I don't "hate" those who drive them, but I do consider most of them to be pretty stupid. I think it's stupid to be commuting 20-30 miles through gridlock every day. I think it's stupid to drive 2 miles to the grocery store. I think it's stupid to be spending billions on cars and roads, but ignoring building a decent public transportation system. The only people who are more stupid than those who are slaves to their cars, are the planners and politicians who allow this to happen.

Longhorn

I love my car! I have a Saleen Mustang convertible and I drive with the top down whenever I can, which is a lot, since I live in Texas.

I also love my bike and nothing makes me happier than seeing my bike on the rack on the back of my car, knowing that after I get off work, I'm going to take my bike to the Veloway and ride.

I don't hate drivers (except when they do something stupid and piss me off) and I've always respected riders and I'm proud to now be one. If someone chooses to ride 100 percent, that's great! I live in a place where it is impossible for me to ride to work. I'm not physically able to tackle the hills and I would be trying to ride on a mean four-lane highway with no shoulders. I don't think I've ever even seen a cyclist on this highway, and I've lived out here nearly ten years. The only place I live close enough to ride to is the vet and I don't see how I can get four dogs on my bike.

There's enough "us" vs. "them" in this country without extending it to cars vs. bikes!

pseudobrit

When I'm suffering, absolutely dying on up a long, nasty climb they pass me and zip by with just a twitch of the right foot.

Then am I envious. Then I hate them.

Alekhine

Yea, there is too much animosity, definitely.

Since this thread is asking for opinions though: I pretty much hate cars. I admit it. They're annoying and smelly and loud and polluting things that frequently cause death and are often driven by drunks, negligents, incompetents, and raging animals (or scary combinations of the four). There are too many autos. Our dependency on them is unsettling, and the laws and roads are no help. When I bartended for 6 years, I saw literally tens of thousands of people over that time get into their cars after drinking all night. This was without question the norm rather than the exception.

I also really dislike the insidious oil/auto industry/insurance/court/paid parking/DMV/police rackets...it has nothing to do with class warfare, lol (poor people frequently have cars you know!), but it is nice to have the extra cash as a bonus to great health, and I'll not deny that. I'd rather spend that money on a Steinway model M grand piano and a custom Mercian bike than a car.

Cars and all the signs, billboards, and lights and all that stuff have contributed to a mass ugliness in the aesthetics of the places of the world too.

That doesn't mean I hate all drivers unconditionally, btw. I'd have few friends otherwise! Likewise, I yield to the utilitarian uses of motor vehicles despite my dislike of them. If I want a new fridge, I'm not going to be able to tow it on a B.O.B. trailer. I'm going to have it delivered to my house in a truck. Some people cannot ambulate freely, etcetera.

In other words, I'm not going to go criticizing or preaching about it to people everywhere or anything, but I wish people would be far less car-dependent, and giving them up was one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Period.

patc

I want to second that!

A friend of mine gets a ride to work in the morning from his lover. He then gets picked up at the end of the day. This is so the car is available at home in case the lover needs it. That's 4 car trips per day so one guy can work, when both home and work are within walking distance of a transit station! It they need to go shopping, that's usually a separate trip too!

And they don't understand why I don't want to get rides from them.

cyclezealot

The first paragraph of Twahl pretty much summarizes the benefits of cycling..But, other than that...
Just take from thread I did after commuting 64 miles to San Diego last week.....1- averaged 19 miles an hour...Could have biked at an equivilant speed...2- Motorists in the rain..Manaical suicidal nut cases... cutting me off in the freeway could have cost us our lives, as others sacrificed them that very day. 3- a tremednous waste of fuel, since it is a worthless transportation system..
But, mostly , I find the behavior of motorists as obnoxious in the car as on the bike...and driving a car is just not fun anymore..
when , I used to see motorists in an auto accident, I used to feel sympathetic..now, they act so crazy and impatient, ..as long as they take no one else out; I often tell myself-they had it coming...a way to lessen bad genes in the gene pool...

mwickens

I like cars and bikes. I don't drive a car currently because I just can't justify the cost given how little need I have for one, but I loved driving my BMW 323ci for years when it made sense for me. Even now if cost weren't a factor, I'd gladly have one. They're fast, convenient, good-looking, and fun. As I return to bicycling after a few years' hiatus, I too am alarmed and turned off by this radical anti-car mindset I keep running into. Busybodies who presume to dictate who "needs" a car and how often they "need" to use it should find better uses for their time. If a bicycle or a Prius turns you on, fine, but leave everyone else alone, please. I say if you like it and can afford it, drive your SUV 24-7! (To the environmental religionists having apoplectic fits at this heresy, I say only that I don't accept your dogma that humanity is doomed to oblivion for its fossil-fuel-burning sins.)

cyclezealot

Even my non cycling wife..We get caught up in local traffic..She says people here drive like Angelenos...Guess that is a purgaritive reference...again , driving is just not fun anymore...