Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Hard takedown of rude 14-year-old for helmet & sidewalk riding violations

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Hard takedown of rude 14-year-old for helmet & sidewalk riding violations

Old 02-06-16, 12:54 PM
  #76  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart
So if a violator refuses to cooperate with a cop performing their duty to enforce our laws, then what? Just let them go?

You whine when they do nothing, you whine when they do something, exactly what do you expect them to do?
I never said the officer was wrong, for stopping the teen. It was what the officer did when the teen was on the ground. He could easily have restrained the teen. By getting on top of the teen, and putting pressure on the teen's shoulders and arms. There was no need for putting pressure on his neck.

It may seem like a stretch. But that teen could have ended up like Freddie Gray. Whose death while in police custody, sparked the 2015 race riots in Baltimore. Which led to the DA filing charges against the six officers involved in the stop, and the firing of the police commissioner by the mayor.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 02:08 PM
  #77  
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
I never said the officer was wrong, for stopping the teen. It was what the officer did when the teen was on the ground. He could easily have restrained the teen. By getting on top of the teen, and putting pressure on the teen's shoulders and arms. There was no need for putting pressure on his neck.

It may seem like a stretch. But that teen could have ended up like Freddie Gray. Whose death while in police custody, sparked the 2015 race riots in Baltimore. Which led to the DA filing charges against the six officers involved in the stop, and the firing of the police commissioner by the mayor.
Yes, its a stretch to say the least.

Guess I'm just a puff who didn't find it all so simple and easy, thank goodness BF has its resident supermen, and experts to show us the light.
kickstart is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 02:39 PM
  #78  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm waiting for the facts of the case to come out (i.e., what happened prior to the video captured events). But by then, no one will care anymore and we'll be on to the next flap.
vanguardx3 is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 07:25 PM
  #79  
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 1,245

Bikes: 1975 Motobecane Le Champion lilac, 2015 Specialized Secteur Elite

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Chris0516
I never said the officer was wrong, for stopping the teen. It was what the officer did when the teen was on the ground. He could easily have restrained the teen. By getting on top of the teen, and putting pressure on the teen's shoulders and arms. There was no need for putting pressure on his neck.

It may seem like a stretch. But that teen could have ended up like Freddie Gray. Whose death while in police custody, sparked the 2015 race riots in Baltimore. Which led to the DA filing charges against the six officers involved in the stop, and the firing of the police commissioner by the mayor.
Is there no end to your insane and imaginative drama?
You first referenced a life threatening head injury and now you are referencing being beaten to death by multiple police officers while in custody.
What part of that video gave you a serious reason to believe that the cyclist was on his way to dying while in the custody of police officers?
Or do you just imagine that everytime someone is restrained?
bakes1 is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 07:43 PM
  #80  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
I never said the officer was wrong, for stopping the teen. It was what the officer did when the teen was on the ground. He could easily have restrained the teen. By getting on top of the teen, and putting pressure on the teen's shoulders and arms. There was no need for putting pressure on his neck.
I watched the video again and only saw 'pressure on his neck' when his neck was a foot or so off the ground. In other words whatever pressure was applied was shared by the kid and the officer. I didn't see him pressing on his neck while on the ground. Much ado about nothing...
gregf83 is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 08:48 PM
  #81  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by bakes1
Originally Posted by gregf83
I watched the video again and only saw 'pressure on his neck' when his neck was a foot or so off the ground. In other words whatever pressure was applied was shared by the kid and the officer. I didn't see him pressing on his neck while on the ground. Much ado about nothing...
Is there no end to your insane and imaginative drama?
You first referenced a life threatening head injury and now you are referencing being beaten to death by multiple police officers while in custody.
What part of that video gave you a serious reason to believe that the cyclist was on his way to dying while in the custody of police officers?
Or do you just imagine that everytime someone is restrained?
Video of Mountie taking down teen sparks police brutality claims | CTV Vancouver Island News

Even the Comox RCMP said it wasn't a legal stop. Instead of deriding me. Watch this video clearly.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 09:03 PM
  #82  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,977
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1638 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times in 495 Posts
Is this what we are coming to as a society...a fourteen year old is on the sidewalk without a helmet, BFD, so stop him and remind him of the law because we all know how critical it is to stop a teen from being a teen. Even if he got mouthy, an adult and especially a Peace Officer, should have the composure to handle some likely rude comments without over reaction and escalation of trivial matters.
__________________
nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
02Giant is offline  
Old 02-06-16, 11:15 PM
  #83  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
Video of Mountie taking down teen sparks police brutality claims | CTV Vancouver Island News

Even the Comox RCMP said it wasn't a legal stop. Instead of deriding me. Watch this video clearly.
I wasn't deriding you but you've misread the story. The Comox RCMP said:
Comox Valley RCMP have issued a statement in response, saying the videos do not tell the whole story.“The video does not show the officer conducting a legal stop, nor does it show the male allegedly refuse to identify himself and become verbally abusive with the officer,”
Meaning the video only shows what happened after the stop. Even if it hadn't been a legal stop there is no way the RCMP would admit that a day after the event occurred.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 02-08-16, 11:25 AM
  #84  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
That blonde female should have caught a dose of pepper spray or a baton strike.
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 02-08-16, 04:36 PM
  #85  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by asmac
That depends. I avoid sidewalks but occasionally go there to avoid a narrow lane or construction. I go slowly and defer to pedestrians. I don't think it creates a big danger. Riding too fast for the conditions or just recklessly is problematical whether you're on the road or a sidewalk or an MUP and that's the issue if there is one. Of course it also helps if pedestrians pay attention to their surroundings.
Originally Posted by vanguardx3
Pedestrians should "pay attention to their surroundings?" How about cyclists stay off the sidewalks and obey the law. Pedestrians should not be forced to be on the look out for irresponsible cyclists such as yourself ready to mow people down.

Cyclists don't have the right to ride on sidewalks because of construction or a narrow lane.

I have no sympathy for that kid. He broke the law, refused to show ID, breaking the law twice, and got what was coming to him.
I'm sorry, but I saw NOTHING in asmac's post to indicate that he goes around "mowing" pedestrians "down." And in certain states, Florida for one it IS legal to operate one's bicycle on the sidewalk UNLESS local laws prohibit it.

Now clearly where the cyclist lives it apparently it IS illegal for one to operate their bicycle on the sidewalk.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 02-08-16, 04:42 PM
  #86  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
I don't know how the law plays out on your side of the border. An officer has a right to talk to anyone, to ask anyone a question, to ask anyone to identify themselves, to direct anyone to comply with the law and their lawful orders, and to use the force necessary (as outlined in their use of force policy) to compel compliance.

I missed the part of the video where the cop threw the subject to the ground. Do you have a link to that one? Any facts that you can provide as to what went down prior to the video posted in the OP are of great interest to me. I only watched the original video and read the accompanying write up.

And what about the times when a cop is just being a "bully with a badge?" And IF we have to be honest and truthful when we answer their questions then shouldn't they likewise have to be honest and truthful when dealing with us?
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 02-08-16, 09:37 PM
  #87  
Junior Member
 
wrldtraveller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 118

Bikes: 1999 Raleigh 24 spd Mtn bike, 2019 Trek ALR Checkpoint touring bike, 2012 Scott Speedster S30

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier
When I lived in Toronto, whenever I saw a someone riding on the sidewalk I would do my best to block, or at least inconvenience, them. My favourite times were when walking my dog and I would detect someone riding up behind us on the sidewalk and I would let the leash out as far as it would go, and my dog seemed to know why and would walk on the opposite side of the sidewalk so getting past was impossible. If the person said anything or rang their bell I would ignore them except for slowing down significantly.
This would be illegal. as we are supposed to share the sidewalk with whoever happens to be using it. If a cyclist are behind you, make room. They are the most vilified and the most hated by the society at whole, just for being a cyclist. It is difficult to maintain balance in a crowded sidewalk at walking speed. We are required to follow the law by adding a bell so that we can communicate our intent of passing you because we can cruise at a quicker speed.

So we do give plenty of room for pedestrians, grant us the courtesy of letting us pass you.

W
wrldtraveller is offline  
Old 02-08-16, 11:49 PM
  #88  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
I came across this video: https://richardhughes.ca/cumberland-m...in-cumberland/

It does show several angles. Just not the teen riding on the sidewalk, or riding without a helmet. The videos' only show the kid on the ground with no helmet. So, While the officer with Cumberland RCMP 'claimed' the teen was riding on the sidewalk, with no helmet. That isn't seen in the videos'. So that can go both ways. As to the teen not wearing a helmet. He is not caught on video(here), not wearing a helmet, just on the ground with no helmet. But in the compiled video. While the teen is on the ground. It doesn't show a helmet laying anywhere near him, on the ground. So, That seems to favor the officer. But that doesn't mean the teen wasn't wearing a helmet.

Last edited by Chris0516; 02-08-16 at 11:53 PM.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 02-09-16, 10:08 AM
  #89  
Senior Member
 
rebel1916's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 44 Posts
So you think its possible that the officer took the helmet and hid it so he would have an excuse to physically restrain the kid? Oooooookaaaaay
rebel1916 is offline  
Old 02-09-16, 10:22 AM
  #90  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,544

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5703 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,345 Posts
Discounting conspiracy theories, it's safe to accept that it was a lawful stop for the reasons given -- sidewalk, no helmet. After all, why else would the cop single out this kid. I'll also credit the official explanation that the cop's actions were a reaction to the kid being a wiseguy and/or belligerent.

But IMO, even granting all the official claims, it till doesn't justify the cop's actions. It's a question of proportionality, and his ability to manage the situation, and it's a fail on both points. If a cop can't manage a 14 year old kid without violence, then we have to wonder how he'd fare with a 225# adult drunk.

As for the kid's refusal to give a name, no problem, take the bike, and tell him that he can bring his parents to the station to claim it. Or take the bike, and tell the kid you need his name so his parents can reclaim it. Explain that his parent's ID will have to match the name or else they won't be allowed to reclaim the bike.

My point isn't as much abut the force as it is about failing to manage a situation without needing any force, or with minimal force.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 02-09-16, 10:56 AM
  #91  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
asmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,261

Bikes: Salsa Vaya

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by FBinNY
Discounting conspiracy theories, it's safe to accept that it was a lawful stop for the reasons given -- sidewalk, no helmet. After all, why else would the cop single out this kid. I'll also credit the official explanation that the cop's actions were a reaction to the kid being a wiseguy and/or belligerent.

But IMO, even granting all the official claims, it till doesn't justify the cop's actions. It's a question of proportionality, and his ability to manage the situation, and it's a fail on both points. If a cop can't manage a 14 year old kid without violence, then we have to wonder how he'd fare with a 225# adult drunk.

As for the kid's refusal to give a name, no problem, take the bike, and tell him that he can bring his parents to the station to claim it. Or take the bike, and tell the kid you need his name so his parents can reclaim it. Explain that his parent's ID will have to match the name or else they won't be allowed to reclaim the bike.

My point isn't as much abut the force as it is about failing to manage a situation without needing any force, or with minimal force.
A very reasonable reply that sums the issue up perfectly.

Last edited by asmac; 02-09-16 at 11:07 AM.
asmac is offline  
Old 02-09-16, 05:28 PM
  #92  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by rebel1916
So you think its possible that the officer took the helmet and hid it so he would have an excuse to physically restrain the kid? Oooooookaaaaay
I never said, or implied that. I was actually saying. That there was no helmet in any of the videos'. So, The officer saying that the teen was not wearing a helmet, could actually be true. If anything, I was backing up the officer on the violations to the Motor Vehicle Act. Not the officer's physical behavior in response to the infractions.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 02-09-16, 06:22 PM
  #93  
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
Discounting conspiracy theories, it's safe to accept that it was a lawful stop for the reasons given -- sidewalk, no helmet. After all, why else would the cop single out this kid. I'll also credit the official explanation that the cop's actions were a reaction to the kid being a wiseguy and/or belligerent.

But IMO, even granting all the official claims, it till doesn't justify the cop's actions. It's a question of proportionality, and his ability to manage the situation, and it's a fail on both points. If a cop can't manage a 14 year old kid without violence, then we have to wonder how he'd fare with a 225# adult drunk.

As for the kid's refusal to give a name, no problem, take the bike, and tell him that he can bring his parents to the station to claim it. Or take the bike, and tell the kid you need his name so his parents can reclaim it. Explain that his parent's ID will have to match the name or else they won't be allowed to reclaim the bike.

My point isn't as much abut the force as it is about failing to manage a situation without needing any force, or with minimal force.

Agreed, the Mountie being the so called "professional" on the scene should have been able to handle the situation without resorting to physically restrain the youth.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
techie
Adaptive Cycling: Handcycles, Amputee Adaptation, Visual Impairment, and Other Needs
3
06-22-18 04:49 AM
vaportrail
Road Cycling
30
12-03-12 11:15 AM
PatrickGSR94
Advocacy & Safety
49
06-04-12 09:54 AM
Iief
Advocacy & Safety
8
07-10-11 01:59 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.