Digital_Cowboy

That's your opinion. Now granted I'd have to agree that no one can know how their dog will behave in all situations. But most dog owners if they've had their dog for any length of time should have a pretty good idea as to how their dog is going to respond.

I would have to say that your lumping dogs in with "other hazards" speaks volumes. And I am going to guess that you are not much of a dog person. You do realize that dogs like most of the so called "lower animals" can pick up on our emotional energy, right? IF we're acting all skittish and nervous around them then we shouldn't be surprised if and when we get bitten.

And again, I am not trying to say that the cyclist did anything wrong but how do we know that he didn't do something to provoke the dog? And just because the bite occurred in the middle of the road doesn't mean that trigger didn't happen elsewhere.

And in all of those cases how many were because the dog(s) were provoked?

Inpd

WTH? Of course it doesn't, its a dog and we are humans. Dogs are not the same as humans.

I think your taking this "dog eat dog world" thing a little far.

Digital_Cowboy

Then please explain why it is that at least one of the dogs that Vick used for fighting is now a service dog?

Exactly, most "large breed" dogs at one time or another have been labeled as being a so called "vicious dog." What breed are people going to blame next?

Agreed, there are more forms of death out there, and most of them don't get as much press as dogs do, for now.

Digital_Cowboy

At 18 what assets did YOU have?

Then again explain how and why it is that at least one of the dogs that Vick used for fighting is now a service animal?

Did you have a no pet policy? Did you have a breed limit clause in the lease? If not and she decided to fight the eviction you might have lost.

No, it isn't. There are as you've said plenty of other breeds of dog that can do as much if not more damage then the typical pit bull.

And uh, you all do know that one of the first things that pit bulls were used for was a nanny dog. Or that Petey from the original Little Rascals was a pit bull.

That's just too funny.

Thank you, I've seen plenty of dogs do the bite and shake it's not just a pit bull trait.

Sadly, those homeless probably have some sort of mental health issue that has gone either diagnosed and/or treated for too many years.

canklecat

Arkansas is pit bull country, like Texas. I've seen this a lot here. It's a complex problem.

Too many pit bull keepers are morons. Not all. Not even most. But too many. They adopt an incredibly powerful dog and take no responsibility for it. At best they'll neglect the dog, failing to play with it constructively to use that energy, to train it and teach it discipline. At worst they'll think it's cute and funny to encourage bad habits, barking and lunging at people, chasing neighborhood cats, killing livestock.

Pit bulls aren't inherently more vicious than any dog. We've had pit bulls and been around pitties owned by friends and other family. But there's zero margin for error. Those jaws are unbelievably powerful.

I gave my brother a pit bull puppy I'd adopted but didn't have time to care for. He took wonderful care and tremendous responsibility for that dog, including teaching it tricks that astounded folks who weren't familiar with pit bulls. Like tossing a huge, heavy fence post into the lake, which Bo would retrieve. Or having Bo clamp her jaws onto a fence post, while being lifted completely off the ground. When visiting family or friends who had allergies or didn't allow dogs inside, he'd use a heavy chain and an "anchor" designed to have a car parked atop the anchor. Those screw augur anchors were useless. Bo would pull them out of the ground. She could chew through or break most chains and steel cables. Bo just thought she was supposed to be with my brother at all times. Most of the time she got to stay indoors because she had perfect manners, never jumping on people or chewing on stuff.

That's how responsible pit bull owners treat their pets. That's how many -- but not enough -- pit bull owners I know treat their pets.

Too many folks I know personally just keep them as yard dogs, not encouraging bad behavior, but never taking responsibility for loving, training and truly caring for the dogs. Those are the dogs that too many irresponsible owners will make excuses for when some victim gets mauled. It's the owner's fault, invariably.

I've been chased and nipped at by every conceivable kind of dog, from tiny yappers to big retriever mix mutts. They're all the same. The difference is that they can't do the damage a pit bull can. So we don't hear about them.

I've seen my own basset hound siblings viciously attack their sibs when a sib was injured or fearful. Same with a family member's bird dog siblings - one got injured, the other attacked its own sib. Some dogs go nuts in the presence of fear or anxiety, and may confuse sweat from exertion from a passing jogger or cyclist with the fight-or-flight response that triggers a chase and attack. It's not the fault of the passerby, ever. It's the complete responsibility of the owner, period.

Long story short, it's the owner's fault, every time. Lacking laws requiring competence, insurance and responsibility, the only recourse is to sue the pants off the owners for failing to take responsibility for an incredibly powerful dog that should -- and still could -- make a fine pet.

quicktrigger

I live in the area of this attack. The guy attacked is VERY fast and was on a training ride. No way he did anything to the dog. What possible reason could he have to provoke the dog? Just dumb if you think any sane person would provoke a large and apparently aggressive dog. Btw, he is a pharmacist at a local hospital. Sure he is aware what a dog can do.

Digital_Cowboy

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. I'm one of those who happens to think that ALL lives matter whether it is a human, a cat, a dog, or a whatever. ALL lives matter and if we as humans have the right to defend ourselves then so do the so called "lower animals."

And actually down here in Florida there was a case recently in which a small child DID in fact provoke a lab into biting it. The lab came very close to being put down. But kind of ironically part of the defense for the lab was Florida's "stand your ground" law. So I guess there are lawmakers who agree with me.

Hapsmo911

I have a Staffy. I got her for my toddler daughter. I did so because when I was researching what dog to get, they were known as "nanny" dogs. It was a great choice and I will more then likely get another when its time. They are very loving. They suck as guard dogs for a reason. People make mean dogs imo. I think at the end of the day the argument isn't about the dog anyway. I shouldn't have brought up my opinion on the biting. IMO this is totally the owners fault. Not the dog. The dog should have been leashed. Sorry for clouding the issue.

indyfabz

Since I got it moved to A&S, anything is possible.

YogaKat

As someone that used to show American Pit Bull Terriers I have to chime in here.

APBTs are dog aggressive. They were originally bred for bull baiting. If one is human aggressive it is considered a flaw in the breeding. I am absolutely against dog fighting but think about it - why would people that were breeding traits in a dog for bull baiting or dog fighting want human aggressive traits. How would they handle them without huge risk?

All that being said Pitties require owners that know how to train and care for them properly. They require a lot of exercise, training and proper socialization (especially around other dogs.)

It's the idiotic and irresponsible owners that are looking for thug life status symbols that are ruining the breed.

I place the blame of this awful attack fully on the owner. Plus WTH wasn't the dog contained or on a leash???

Paul Barnard

Unfortunately, it's not always people who know how to train and care for them that own them. Good hearted people go down to the shelter and see those sweet dogs staring at them. The dogs go home with their new owners who aren't the right type owner. You have made a critical point that needs to be reemphasized. Pits, pit mixes and the fighting breeds need a special type owner. Goldens, labs, beagles, greyhounds and so many other breeds if not handled right aren't the threat to animals and people that pits are.

Paul Barnard

Help me out here. Just what are some of the things the rider in this case could have done to have provoked the dog to attack?

dcsix

I would have to say that your lumping dogs in with "other hazards" speaks volumes. And I am going to guess that you are not much of a dog person. You do realize that dogs like most of the so called "lower animals" can pick up on our emotional energy, right? IF we're acting all skittish and nervous around them then we shouldn't be surprised if and when we get bitten.


Oh geez Digital, I see you're a regular Doctor Doolittle, well yes as a matter of fact a dog can be a hazard, duh, and no I do not act skittish and nervous around them for I AM a dog person. I love dogs, unfortunately ours died a few years back of a cancer and we have not replaced her. Thanks for the free dose of condescension, though. It's terrific that you respect and love ALL life, but there is a hierarchy-you might have noticed this. I know I'm talkin to a Real Dog Whisperer here, but this particular useless Pit is far more likely to do it again than not. Perhaps you should offer to adopt it and at least you'd keep it in a properly fenced yard, as I kept my dog.

And again, I am not trying to say that the cyclist did anything wrong but how do we know that he didn't do something to provoke the dog? And just because the bite occurred in the middle of the road doesn't mean that trigger didn't happen elsewhere.
That's exactly what you are trying to say! What trigger is this that the cyclist should be blamed for-the sound of chain on cogs? The bright yellow clothing? Goggles? Beard? A helmet sets the dog off and it's not the owners' fault? You've inhaled too much in the way of paint vapors, or something.


And in all of those cases how many were because the dog(s) were provoked?
FIVE OR TEN PERCENT!! What's your point, other than it's always the humans fault?

canklecat

So have dachshunds, but nobody gives that a second thought. Hotdogs can be vicious, fearless and tenacious fighters too. But they don't often kill anyone because they're so small. But I'd be very cautious with a weenie dog around babies and small children.

Several years ago we adopted an older dachshund that had been a breeder and mostly neglected other than fed. She had no clue about socialization, but with patience she became a fine pet for her few remaining years. But I had two experiences that reminded me dachshunds were bred to be ruthless hunting dogs.

The first time was when I dropped a chicken bone and tried to retrieve it before Gretchen did. Too late. She snarled and bit my hand - just a quick nip and head shake - leaving some painful gashes. Not her fault. She'd never been properly socialized by the breeder, and we hadn't had her long enough to work on her "every dog for itself" temperament around food. Although I may have muttered "Choke on it, b***h."

The second time Gretchen was riding in the car with me, doing the usual doggie-head-out-the-window thing, ears flying. A neighbor once again let her doberman and whippet roam wild, and once again the pair were raiding trash bags dutifully set along the curb for pickup the next day, strewing garbage everywhere. Gretchen didn't even wait for the car to stop. She leaped out the window, chasing the pair of dogs. The whippet wisely ran away very quickly - the one thing whippets are good for. The doberman just stood there looking stupid. Gretchen leaped up, grabbed the dobie by the throat and clung on as the doberman backed up out of our yard, across the street and back to its own yard, at which point Gretchen let go and trotted proudly home. She hadn't actually bitten through the dobie's throat, but could easily have killed the larger dog.

It's all a matter of size and jaw power, not necessarily bred-in temperament. Pit bulls have the potential to cause more severe injuries and demand far greater responsibility than some owners are willing to invest.

Digital_Cowboy

I never claimed to be, but 9 times out of 10 I'd much rather deal with a dog then a human. I do not consider a dog in and of itself to be a "hazard." Yes, if they haven't been properly trained and socialized they can be, but that is NOT the dogs fault.

What information do you have that leads you to that conclusion? Do you personally know the do, or the owner?



I wasn't there so I do NOT know what might have happened, and I am guessing that you also were not there either. So all we really know is what has been reported. So none of us here REALLY knows what happened on that day, nor do we have all of the facts.

No, not always but it has been my experience that more often than not that when someone gets bit it is because of something that they did or didn't do. And speaking from personal experience I used to have a neighbor who had a beautiful Golden Lab/German Shepard mix b!tch. This dog did NOT like men. I was one of the very few exceptions.

When I am out on my bike and I encounter a person who is walking a dog I "slow my roll" so as not to encourage the dog to see me as "prey" And I've had their owners thank me for that. So I must be doing something right, don't you think?

dcsix

Digital_Cowboy said:

" I do not consider a dog in and of itself to be a "hazard." "

Well, don't take it personally on the dogs' behalf. I used the word hazard to illuminate all the various things that can cause you or I to go down-or worse. A sweet harmless 8 pound doggie being walked on a short leash can be a hazard to us.

"What information do you have that leads you to that conclusion?"

No empirical proof, I can assure you. Just suggesting that a breed known to be aggressive at times (I'm sure you'll argue with that assertion) who has ripped into a guy on a bike is probably more likely to do it again, once it has done it once. Couple this with an irresponsible owner who likely never trains and obviously doesn't properly contain the dog, and the chances are clearly better to repeat than not, imho. You can disagree and say that this event actually makes it less likely if you wish. I certainly understand that ignorant/lazy/uninterested owners are the root of the problem, but am not inclined to spare the dog that has done this all the same. Millipedes, small fish, dogs, humans...in that order.
And by the way, I have owned four dogs, a pied cockatiel, a tabby cat, and Beta's, and enjoyed them all, just so you know I'm, er, human.

"it has been my experience that more often than not that when someone gets bit it is because of something that they did or didn't do"

Like you say, your experience. I suspect that many, including myself, would not agree with that statement, though.

"When I am out on my bike and I encounter a person who is walking a dog I "slow my roll" so as not to encourage the dog to see me as "prey" And I've had their owners thank me for that. So I must be doing something right, don't you think?"

Me too, absolutely-it's their world, too, so good on you. I announce myself-on your left!-and always wave or say hi or thanks. If they don't have their dog on a leash, I say "leash".

Equinox

I feel this attitude is dangerous. It leads to the granting of human rights to animals which is a patently absurd concept. Take this "right to defend itself" idea. If you were to tease and annoy another person, that person has no right to physically attack you. Look this is a really simple case. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is, vicious dog, or irresponsible owner. The aggressive dog injured a human on a public right of way. The dog is a danger to other humans with the potential to cause death under the right circumstances. It would be cruel to risk injury or death to other humans by letting this dog live. Put it down and sanction the owner. Keep PEOPLE safe at all costs.

Chris0516

I agree
True

Edit: The owner's attitude and age, make me wonder. If she is that callous about the behavior of her dogs. I wonder what she is like behind the wheel.

bikemig 

I'm genuinely curious. How many times do you have to repeat the same point (in bold no less)? You are not going to convince anyone. Why can't you just make your point (which apparently is that vicious humans should be put down whenever they are attacked by gentle dogs) and move on?

1989Pre 

The number of individuals who are willing to ignore the obvious by denying that pit bulls are an unnecessary and easily-eliminated threat concerns me greatly. They sound like the politicians that tell us one thing, yet the people know fully-well better.
Pit Bulls are bred to kill other dogs and to be hard to injure or kill. The breeding aspect of it means that no matter how much "socialization" or "training", the dog will ultimately respond to and act on those impulses that it was born with.
Be ready, people. Carry bear repellent spray, a sheath knife, and even a small, automatic pistol if you are so-inclined. Keep it on your mind and where you can get to it immediately.
I'm not saying other breeds can not give you trouble while riding. It's just that the threat is doubled with pit bulls.

howsteepisit

That rivals the most paranoid thing I have seen here yet.

bronco71

A good friend of mine (former roommate) has had pits as long as I have known him, twenty-five years or so. Each and every one of his dogs has been the sweetest, gentlest, most lovable dog I have met. Those dogs would let you stick your face in their food bowl while they were eating, they'd probably lick you. Never an ounce of trouble with his dogs. Why, good owner. Yes, pits can be especially nasty when they have a bad owner. That said, the worst dog I have ever run into was a Weimeraner. Reason?, an exceptionally bad borderline sociopathic owner. Dogs reflect the owner.

AlmostTrick

So it's ok the dog attacked because it's the victims fault?

Maybe if the victim was attacking the dogs owner, or even just breaking into his house, we could excuse the dog and owner. In most other cases, no.

I'm a dog lover and say down this dog and fine the owner.

Seattle Forrest

He could have taken one of the cats out of his pocket and waved it at the poor doggie.

ColaJacket

When a dog bites a person (and especially if the dog kills the person) is that the dog should be put "in jail", and the owner should be euthanized.

GH