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  1. #51
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    Enjoy riding in Webster. As a kid (many years ago) I rode all around Webster. One favorite ride was Lake Road to Pultneyville and Sodus Point. When in Webster I got chased by dogs a few times, never attacked. In order my counters for dogs: sprint; shout NO!; defend (many good suggestions above on defending).

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    A few thoughts on our four legged friends...

    1) Seems those who have never had a serious attack understate the risks (what's the big deal) verses those who have had incidents (like me) who warn bikers to be very wary of dogs.
    2) Make sure you report a dog bite, especially a vicious animal, as they may eventually get a child in the area. The authorities will also cite the owners if the dog does not have shots or tags.
    3) As was the case with me I fell defending myself. After being bitten I kicked the dog hard twice, which stopped the attack, but hit a curb behind be and was thrown to the street, adding road rash to my injuries.
    4) Animal attacks can be very fast and with little or no warning. Backwoodsmen have learned to carry bear spray on a waist holster at all times, and even then have barely had time to use it. Having complicated defense devices, especially if they are buried in your packs or concealed (like firearms) may not help until it is too late.
    5) The dog that attacked me was not playful, it was a vicious out-for-blood attack which I had to forcibly stop.
    6) Do not shoot deterent sprays into the wind, they will be blown back into your face.
    7) Wear heavy shoes whenever possible to protect feet and to kick the dog.
    8) Stay away from dogs, even if they are leashed. Do not assume the owners have any control over the animal.

  3. #53
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    In the part of town where i live, there are dogs that are dangerous.

    2 of the last 3 dogs that chased me were pit bulls, who were pretty obviously "in training" to bolster their owners' micro-scrotums; I diverted both by barking BACK at them, louder and harder than they were at me. Leaves me with a sore throat for a while, but I'll take that over being mauled (happens here too often; I haven't forgotten the incident a few years ago when a cop had to shotgun a loose Rottweiler in my backyard!).

    HALT! is a good recommendation if you're that worried; a gel-type pepper spray will work, as well. It takes some bike-handling skills to nail a chasing dog with a billy or a loaded water bottle.

  4. #54
    Senior Member rydabent's Avatar
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    A 22 ****** shot to the head of a dog attacking works quite well, and will assure that dog never attacks another cyclist or runner again! Fact-----------there is no excuse for having visious dogs loose in society!

  5. #55
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    To op - considering you live in upstate New York, you will need to consider what the dog threat is, and act accordingly.

    Small dogs can be as annoying as their owners typically are, but they also tend not to be tremendously destructive to tissue, flesh and/or bone. A couple of whacks with a pump is usually enough to stop an attack. Larger dog breeds trained for aggression (Alsatians, Rotties, Dobermans, Akitas, wolf-husky mixes) will require major incentives for the dog to break off an attack. Tasers or firearms are frequently required.

    If you are squaring off against pit bulls (APBT; AStaffT; StaffT; American Bulldog; Presa Canarios and mixes) you will need something stronger than a baton, whip, taser or pepper spray. These particular breeds were bred to be resistant to pain and to latch onto flesh, shaking and tearing. They have a long history of maiming and killing human beings, sometimes without warning - and that history is a result of deliberate natural selection ("non-human aggressive" is pure humane society BS). Pitbulls tend to be owned by people who cannot manage their own personal lives, let alone that of a dog - owners that tend to be "judgement-proof". No cyclist can risk being bitten by one. Subsequently, if you have real concerns about the cute-little-face-lickers (humane society BS) you may need to consider filing for a ****** permit. Depending on the municipality (not sure how Webster is), the permit may be granted, or it may not be. Such is life in the "may issue" state.

    My own personal solution (perfectly valid in PA - a "shall-issue", "stand-your-ground" state) is to carry a Sig-Sauer P229 with 180-grain Speer Gold-Dot hollow-point bullets. The combination is heavy to carry, tends to chafe, but it is a proven pit-bull stopper (two or fewer shots). The George Zimmerman solution (Kel-Tec PF-9 with 115grain hollow-points) is also perfectly valid, less likely to snag on clothing, and weighs a lot less, though they are certainly misery to practice with at the firing range.

    Those of you who feel shooting an attacking pit-bull is cruel - I really don't care what you think. Firstly, your love of animals does not give you moral authority to judge anyone, unless you are the Pope, Dalai Lama, Billy Graham or some other religious leader - and even then you'd be pushing it, considering the lifestyles I observe most of you leading. Secondly, you're elevating a breed statistically responsible for the most human deaths of any other classification of dog, and in the process of excusing its faults exhibit a rather twisted value system - one which devalues human life.

  6. #56
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Since in 2012 there were 34 dog attack deaths in the US, I think occurrence of serious dog attacks is likely pretty low. Frankly, given the weight and shear inconvenience of carrying a ******, if I had to carry to feel safe when cycling I give up cycling. On the other hand there are more than 4 million dog bites a year reported, so it does happen, but the number of bicyclist bitten is not reported. I think the far bigger risk to cyclists is being chased by dogs and crashing trying to avoid or get away from the dog. I suspect that trying to draw and fire would lead to as many accidents as other methods of avoiding a chasing dog.
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  7. #57
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    ^ I don't doubt that your "34" fatal number is most likely correct, however, I believe you are failing to understand the extent of "potentially fatal requiring emergency professional medical attention to prevent death" incidents. I have personally had two such attacks on me personally, and one on a child that I was not able to stop in time. I don't own dogs (haven't since I was a kid and even then my dog never went after me or anyone else) so these were all other peoples dogs. I'm talking things that go beyond just bites and unless your first aid skills were very good if you did not seek professional medical attention the results would ultimately be fatal (usually from loss of blood, although infection danger shouldn't be underestimated either).

    I personally have put down more dogs with lethal force then I can count on one hand that were in the act of attacking a human being. I have put down more then I can count on both hand and my toes that were attacking live-stock either my own or other peoples. I have been in court as a result more times then I can count on one hand and so far I have yet to loose a case, but it is also true that my state has very good laws and legal precedents in place concerning vicious dogs that are left running loose and the owners responsibility both criminally and civilly for allowing that situation.

    I'm not a dog hater, I wouldn't even say I'm a vicious dog hater. Vicious dogs just have to be put down and the sooner the better, its actually kind of sad for the dog since usually its not a "bad dog" but rather a dog with bad owners who taught it to be vicious. Just like kids, very few of them are actually bad seeds, usually its a bad parent problem.

    I do believe the criminal penalties against owners of dangerous dogs who allow them to roam free and attack innocent people (or even sick them on people in public places deliberately as has happened to me more then once) are not nearly strict enough or enforced enough, even in my state which is better then most. Just like the car culture bias there is a dog owner bias as well in our society that runs contrary to the basic principles of justice.


    Personally my main concern with firearms and why I don't recommend their use against vicious dogs too vocally is because I don't think most people are responsible enough and plan far enough ahead and train well enough to be trusted in an urban setting not to have stray bullets (a misnomer in most cases, there really is no such thing and the person pulling the trigger is significantly responsible for where that bullet goes) making the problem even worse. For dog vs. human personal protection for myself and to allow me to protect other innocents if necessary (already has been) I carry a lighter caliber then either of the suggestions by the poster "kunsunoke" above that fires a specially made bullet that is both heavier and slower moving then both of his suggestions and the bullet is specially designed to eliminate or substantially reduce any potential of the bullet ricocheting or exiting the target and application is always at point blank range often with the muzzle buried in the dogs fir always firing downwards never horizontal. Obviously on the farm & ranch when protecting livestock significantly more powerful and longer range options are used.

    It may be just the cynic in me, but I don't trust most of the base population to understand the level of responsibility and have the training and the nerves to properly use a firearm in the kind of stressful situation that a dog attack can create. "Dude, just get a forty Glock and load it up with hollow points and blast the whole mag. into that dog, Dude," that's the kind of mentality that sends a shudder down my spine as I think about what kind of collateral damage could result if a situation every came up with someone with that kind of mentality. May just be the country boy in me, but you don't think that way about guns, even when protecting yourself or others from a significant and priority threat that has to be taken care of immediately. You prepare and train ahead of time which includes choosing the proper tool for the job to get the job done with the least potential risk to others and you never, ever, ever, ever, "spray and pray" you make clean safe shots and you make them count. Get it right and you only need one.

    At the very least, buy the closest thing you can get in your locality legally as far as fragmenting bullet technology that is designed to prevent ricochet or the bullet exit the target and being a danger further down range. Personally, if I don't have my own custom rounds available I prefer "Extreme Shock Air Martial Rounds" that are designed not to penetrate the thin skin of a air-liner and are downloaded to not be a significant lethal threat beyond reasonable ranges in the case of an over-shot and those "DRT" rounds that are made from compressed copper powder with a light bonding that turn back into powder when they hit anything slightly hard are good as well and both create substantial lethal wounds in soft tissue at point blank range (look more like blast craters then bullet impact points). Yes, I do realize that you can't buy them as a civilian in a lot of states and even where you can get them they are like $100+ for a very small box with barely enough cartridges to fill just a single mag. but that is a very small price to pay if it keeps one of your bullets from hurting much less killing a bystander and as far as I'm concerned if your thinking about this ahead of time you really don't have any excuse not to plan ahead and buy and use such ammunition that is designed to reduce collateral risks, and if you don't as far as I'm concerned that could be considered negligence on your part.

    If your really into the *** thing and have your own quality bullet making equipment (I'm not talking reloading I'm talking actually making the components themselves from scratch), either the molten metal kind, or better yet a high pressure hydraulic press capable of professional swagging operations and dies to fit it, the send me a PM and we can make talk on another forum more appropriate for the subject matter about how to make specialized custom projectiles and how to load them and how to test them to produce similar minimal collateral danger loads that are comparable to the professional stuff that costs $100+ for a small box.

    If you don't already have the equipment and the skills then just pay the $100+ a box prices, the equipment is many times more then that.
    Last edited by turbo1889; 10-15-13 at 12:19 PM.

  8. #58
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    CDC Says there are about 2,000,000 dog attacks annually which require medical attention, and about 1/2 are children. So that give about 1,000,000 serious dog bites/attacks per year. My thinking is that relatively few of these are cyclists, but cannot find any actual data.

    Turbo, you seem to have had extraordinary interactions with dogs for some reason, I am on the opposite pole, in that I have been bitten by one dog in my 57 years, that was my own chow/golden mix who was defending herself from another dog and I got my arm in the way while stopping the fight. I agree with you about needing to be practiced and trained to effectively use a weapon under duress.

    I still say, if I felt it was necessary to cary a *** for safety while cycling, I would give up cycling, having to be ever vigilant to real or perceived threats of a severity needed to carry a weapon would take all joy out of bicycling.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kunsunoke View Post
    To op - considering you live in upstate New York, you will need to consider what the dog threat is, and act accordingly.

    Small dogs can be as annoying as their owners typically are, but they also tend not to be tremendously destructive to tissue, flesh and/or bone. A couple of whacks with a pump is usually enough to stop an attack. Larger dog breeds trained for aggression (Alsatians, Rotties, Dobermans, Akitas, wolf-husky mixes) will require major incentives for the dog to break off an attack. Tasers or firearms are frequently required.

    If you are squaring off against pit bulls (APBT; AStaffT; StaffT; American Bulldog; Presa Canarios and mixes) you will need something stronger than a baton, whip, taser or pepper spray. These particular breeds were bred to be resistant to pain and to latch onto flesh, shaking and tearing. They have a long history of maiming and killing human beings, sometimes without warning - and that history is a result of deliberate natural selection ("non-human aggressive" is pure humane society BS). Pitbulls tend to be owned by people who cannot manage their own personal lives, let alone that of a dog - owners that tend to be "judgement-proof". No cyclist can risk being bitten by one. Subsequently, if you have real concerns about the cute-little-face-lickers (humane society BS) you may need to consider filing for a ****** permit. Depending on the municipality (not sure how Webster is), the permit may be granted, or it may not be. Such is life in the "may issue" state.

    My own personal solution (perfectly valid in PA - a "shall-issue", "stand-your-ground" state) is to carry a Sig-Sauer P229 with 180-grain Speer Gold-Dot hollow-point bullets. The combination is heavy to carry, tends to chafe, but it is a proven pit-bull stopper (two or fewer shots). The George Zimmerman solution (Kel-Tec PF-9 with 115grain hollow-points) is also perfectly valid, less likely to snag on clothing, and weighs a lot less, though they are certainly misery to practice with at the firing range.

    Those of you who feel shooting an attacking pit-bull is cruel - I really don't care what you think. Firstly, your love of animals does not give you moral authority to judge anyone, unless you are the Pope, Dalai Lama, Billy Graham or some other religious leader - and even then you'd be pushing it, considering the lifestyles I observe most of you leading. Secondly, you're elevating a breed statistically responsible for the most human deaths of any other classification of dog, and in the process of excusing its faults exhibit a rather twisted value system - one which devalues human life.
    I give you credit for lugging a ****** around while on a bike ride. I'm not sure how or where you can secure it, but credit where it is due. I hated carrying a ******, ruined all my clothes and was always digging into my hip. But that is just me.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    ^ I don't doubt that your "34" fatal number is most likely correct, however, I believe you are failing to understand the extent of "potentially fatal requiring emergency professional medical attention to prevent death" incidents. I have personally had two such attacks on me personally, and one on a child that I was not able to stop in time. I don't own dogs (haven't since I was a kid and even then my dog never went after me or anyone else) so these were all other peoples dogs. I'm talking things that go beyond just bites and unless your first aid skills were very good if you did not seek professional medical attention the results would ultimately be fatal (usually from loss of blood, although infection danger shouldn't be underestimated either).

    I personally have put down more dogs with lethal force then I can count on one hand that were in the act of attacking a human being. I have put down more then I can count on both hand and my toes that were attacking live-stock either my own or other peoples. I have been in court as a result more times then I can count on one hand and so far I have yet to loose a case, but it is also true that my state has very good laws and legal precedents in place concerning vicious dogs that are left running loose and the owners responsibility both criminally and civilly for allowing that situation.

    I'm not a dog hater, I wouldn't even say I'm a vicious dog hater. Vicious dogs just have to be put down and the sooner the better, its actually kind of sad for the dog since usually its not a "bad dog" but rather a dog with bad owners who taught it to be vicious. Just like kids, very few of them are actually bad seeds, usually its a bad parent problem.

    I do believe the criminal penalties against owners of dangerous dogs who allow them to roam free and attack innocent people (or even sick them on people in public places deliberately as has happened to me more then once) are not nearly strict enough or enforced enough, even in my state which is better then most. Just like the car culture bias there is a dog owner bias as well in our society that runs contrary to the basic principles of justice.


    Personally my main concern with firearms and why I don't recommend their use against vicious dogs too vocally is because I don't think most people are responsible enough and plan far enough ahead and train well enough to be trusted in an urban setting not to have stray bullets (a misnomer in most cases, there really is no such thing and the person pulling the trigger is significantly responsible for where that bullet goes) making the problem even worse. For dog vs. human personal protection for myself and to allow me to protect other innocents if necessary (already has been) I carry a lighter caliber then either of the suggestions by the poster "kunsunoke" above that fires a specially made bullet that is both heavier and slower moving then both of his suggestions and the bullet is specially designed to eliminate or substantially reduce any potential of the bullet ricocheting or exiting the target and application is always at point blank range often with the muzzle buried in the dogs fir always firing downwards never horizontal. Obviously on the farm & ranch when protecting livestock significantly more powerful and longer range options are used.

    It may be just the cynic in me, but I don't trust most of the base population to understand the level of responsibility and have the training and the nerves to properly use a firearm in the kind of stressful situation that a dog attack can create. "Dude, just get a forty Glock and load it up with hollow points and blast the whole mag. into that dog, Dude," that's the kind of mentality that sends a shudder down my spine as I think about what kind of collateral damage could result if a situation every came up with someone with that kind of mentality. May just be the country boy in me, but you don't think that way about guns, even when protecting yourself or others from a significant and priority threat that has to be taken care of immediately. You prepare and train ahead of time which includes choosing the proper tool for the job to get the job done with the least potential risk to others and you never, ever, ever, ever, "spray and pray" you make clean safe shots and you make them count. Get it right and you only need one.

    At the very least, buy the closest thing you can get in your locality legally as far as fragmenting bullet technology that is designed to prevent ricochet or the bullet exit the target and being a danger further down range. Personally, if I don't have my own custom rounds available I prefer "Extreme Shock Air Martial Rounds" that are designed not to penetrate the thin skin of a air-liner and are downloaded to not be a significant lethal threat beyond reasonable ranges in the case of an over-shot and those "DRT" rounds that are made from compressed copper powder with a light bonding that turn back into powder when they hit anything slightly hard are good as well and both create substantial lethal wounds in soft tissue at point blank range (look more like blast craters then bullet impact points). Yes, I do realize that you can't buy them as a civilian in a lot of states and even where you can get them they are like $100+ for a very small box with barely enough cartridges to fill just a single mag. but that is a very small price to pay if it keeps one of your bullets from hurting much less killing a bystander and as far as I'm concerned if your thinking about this ahead of time you really don't have any excuse not to plan ahead and buy and use such ammunition that is designed to reduce collateral risks, and if you don't as far as I'm concerned that could be considered negligence on your part.

    If your really into the *** thing and have your own quality bullet making equipment (I'm not talking reloading I'm talking actually making the components themselves from scratch), either the molten metal kind, or better yet a high pressure hydraulic press capable of professional swagging operations and dies to fit it, the send me a PM and we can make talk on another forum more appropriate for the subject matter about how to make specialized custom projectiles and how to load them and how to test them to produce similar minimal collateral danger loads that are comparable to the professional stuff that costs $100+ for a small box.

    If you don't already have the equipment and the skills then just pay the $100+ a box prices, the equipment is many times more then that.
    Most folks don't realize the "Ready, willing and able" part of neutralizing a threat with a firearm. The other thing I was taught........"Avoid, Avoid." Don't ride with your head in your ass and you should be able to see trouble coming. This will give you time to react even if it is just getting off the bike and using it as a weapon.
    I prefer an old school shorty .45 caliber with slow 230gr, hollow point. It is so slow I think you can see it when it exits the barrel and won't push through objects with a small amount of mass (dog head or body).

    Be careful out there!!

  10. #60
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
    Attacked and chased are not always the same thing. I have been chased by dogs that I know aren't going to attack me, but the first time on that route you don't know that. Most of the suggestions here will work on most dogs. Another thing is take different routes if you know a particular dog is bad or talk to the owner. I find rural dogs can usually be seen ahead of time and planned for, urban dogs often appear out of nowhere and are a lot closer to start with. Another suggestion is a small .22 auto loaded with hollow points. Head shot works best. Guaranteed he (she?) won't bother you or anyone else again.
    Ironically the one dog that almost got me was rural but was waiting in the high grass on a climb, or perhaps resting and half awake. That would explain why he missed.

    In another ironic twist this was on the same route where I met the most impressive pack. 3 big dogs, one considerably bigger than the other 2. I estimate the 'smaller' 2 were the same size as Joey, my now deceased Presa. So figure 120, 120 and 160 or so. They came charging down off a small bluff and no way I could outrun them, they had an angle on me. Part way through their charge I realize no aggressive barking, tails wagging, they are friendly. Then I remember Joey and think I could end up with a separated shoulder from a friendly jump, so I dismount.

    In the end my only problem was they wanted to get petted more and it was hard to get them to go back home.

    The one dog who almost got me had tried before and I did have an ongoing fantasy that some day both sets would be loose and I'd take my 3 friends back to have a chat with the troublesome dog.
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  11. #61
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
    . . . Turbo, you seem to have had extraordinary interactions with dogs for some reason, . . .
    I believe the reason for this is to a great deal in where I live and the small farm life-style I have chosen. I am nearly 100% convinced that the most dangerous area for vicious dogs is the grey zone between where rural farming american and suburbia america transition into each other. You get the loose vicious packs of dogs supplied by the accursed subys, especially the trailer park variety and all that open space right next door that encourages them to let them run loose and turn wild, that combined with owners who think its cool to have a vicious attack dog makes for a very bad recipe.

    As to live-stock, if your on the farm/ranch end of that grey zone and having anything "chew-able and fun to chase" then your going to have to put dogs down repeatably in a never ending cycle because their stupid scoff-law owners just let them run wild even though its a criminal (yes, actual criminal) offense to do so at least in my state due to the large voting block of farms and ranchers we have who are able to keep the laws about this sort of thing half-way within reason.

  12. #62
    Senior Member howsteepisit's Avatar
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    Turbo, I lived in rural Bozeman from 2003 to 2012, just did not have the same experience. Its sad that you did, and for sure when dogs are either viscously attacking either humans or livestock putting them down may be the only/best option. But as I said, I have lived i rural Illinois, Michigan and Montana, as well as more urban Illinois, New Jersey, California and now Oregon, and have never experienced even close to what you have with dogs. And as a true dog lover, I am happy about that fact.
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  13. #63
    Transportation Cyclist turbo1889's Avatar
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    Why knows, maybe I was a really nasty person in some past life and I'm getting pay back in this on. All I know is that for all practical purposes the story of my life at least so far is that some great galactic Karma has declared "though shalt be a sh*t magnet". I just know that I've had to learn to deal with this among many other "sh*t magnet" issues in my life, maybe its because I will deal with them that I'm the one that gets them. But then I might be getting a little bit too theologically deep for this forum board with such discussions.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbo1889 View Post
    I believe the reason for this is to a great deal in where I live and the small farm life-style I have chosen. I am nearly 100% convinced that the most dangerous area for vicious dogs is the grey zone between where rural farming american and suburbia america transition into each other. You get the loose vicious packs of dogs supplied by the accursed subys, especially the trailer park variety and all that open space right next door that encourages them to let them run loose and turn wild, that combined with owners who think its cool to have a vicious attack dog makes for a very bad recipe.

    As to live-stock, if your on the farm/ranch end of that grey zone and having anything "chew-able and fun to chase" then your going to have to put dogs down repeatably in a never ending cycle because their stupid scoff-law owners just let them run wild even though its a criminal (yes, actual criminal) offense to do so at least in my state due to the large voting block of farms and ranchers we have who are able to keep the laws about this sort of thing half-way within reason.
    Dogs do chase.

    Near me there is a local Community college that was historically farming. It has changed but the farm part still remains. At one pint they were having major problems with Coyotes. I was half in jest thinking of trying to lend out my pair of monsters. An oversized Belgian sheep dog and a Presa Canario. I think I could have trained them to think of the sheep as part of their pack and thus something to protect. They would have enjoyed coyote chasing.

    They were a sweet pair, but in the hands of a fool who wants a vicious dog to prop up his sense of manhood they would have been exceptionally dangerous.

    Oh and one general comment. Dogs seem to vary a lot depending on the Neighborhood. I've never had a problem near home. Middle class suburban area. Actually rarely see dogs out and the ones I do stick to the sidewalks. (And if I have the chance I pick them up and get them home). Different worlds in more rural areas that are within riding distance or not so nice urban areas.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  15. #65
    Member johnnymoses's Avatar
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    I have always yelled as loud as possible either "NO" or "BAD DOG" and it has almost always worked. If dealing with a pit bull, you might want to have a 12k volt taser on hand.

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    Senior Member rumrunn6's Avatar
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    if you want something really nasty, like real nasty, worse than human pee in a bottle for squirting at dogs, this stuff really stinks

    Seaweed Fertilizer

    http://www.bonsaioutlet.com/seaweed-...FVOe4AodryYAMg
    cycling is like baseball ~ it doesn't take much to make it interesting

  17. #67
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
    if you want something really nasty, like real nasty, worse than human pee in a bottle for squirting at dogs, this stuff really stinks

    Seaweed Fertilizer

    http://www.bonsaioutlet.com/seaweed-...FVOe4AodryYAMg
    And you think that will stoop a determined dog?

    My pair had a run in with a skunk once. They were still happy as clams, us poor humans suffered because of it however.

    BTW dogs are territorial. In an urban or suburban setting that means it you go 50 feet you have an excellent chance of being out of their territory.

    Rural is a different story, but I have heard stories of riders thinking they were doomed only to have a dog stop at a fenceline (which the dog could easily have gone around or through).
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  18. #68
    spondylitis.org kunsunoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnymoses View Post
    I have always yelled as loud as possible either "NO" or "BAD DOG" and it has almost always worked.
    That technique would likely work with an obedience-trained dog. You're going to be on your own if attacked by a pitbull, though.

    If dealing with a pit bull, you might want to have a 12k volt taser on hand.
    Even the 12k taser may make no difference.

    Pitbulls were bred specifically to ignore pain. They will clamp and hold, no matter what. They can be subjected to astonishing levels of blunt trauma and still hold / shake.

    Subsequently the only way to stop one is to induce hydrostatic shock, or to destroy critical tissues in the animal (brain, circulatory, nervous systems) such that the pain does not matter and that the dog is stopped immediately. The techniques are no different from those used to stop rampaging wild animals with similar inclinations.

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    Wow, I must be doing something wrong because I've never been attacked by a dog, and have only been bitten once by my own dog when I was a kid. She was very food-territorial and I was being an annoying kid. She turned around and clamped on my arm, and then let go when I screamed. That makes 31 years with no dog attacks and one provoked bite incident.

    There are a few neighborhood dogs that took a few weeks to get used to someone on a bicycle, but they are inside of the invisible fences, so they never got into the road. They would run full speed along the edge of their property. Even then not aggressive, just more wanting to chase and see what I was.

    If you see an unleashed/unrestrained dog up ahead, take an alternate route. If no alternate exists, slow down to walking speed and start talking to the dog. If the dog seems aggressive (barking, no tail-wagging, etc.), stop and get off the bike. Dogs are (usually) used to seeing people, but not so used to seeing bicycles. If you get off and walk the bike, they'll most likely realize that you're a person and either want to be petted or lose interest. Of course, if the dog seems sick or injured, stay as far away as you can and report it to the authorities.

    Are there dogs who are just plain mean and will bite anything that comes near? Of course, most due to poor owners (and really nothing to do with breed; those stating that pit bulls have some special jaw-clamping behavior are repeating an urban legend). The sad fact is that a lot of pit bull owners mistreat their dogs and train them to be "fighters". The same thing could happen to chihuahuas if there was enough interest in chihuahua fighting rings.

    OP: Don't worry about dogs.

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    Some more thoughts on Rover:

    This thread seems to have a lot of ideas based on yelling at dogs or talk of territories. Yelling at the dog that attacked me (actually more like swearing at it) just made it angrier. Kicking it stopped the attack instantly.


    I do not understand the territory arguments, what difference does it make? You get bitten, you get bitten. Should I stay out of their territory? How do I know what it is? In my neighborhood every other house seems to have a dog. Where does one find territories? The dog that bit me was not even home, it was out with its owners visiting friends. My mother years ago fell walking her dog, when a kid tried to help her the dog bit his hand real bad. It wasn't territory, we assumed it was defending its owner.


    Dog bite recently has skyrocketed, and is becoming a serious health issue. Another argument here (beyond biking) is with our health care system becoming more and more overstretched the dog bite issue (which is preventable) is certainly not helping.


    I hope the firearm crowd is considering the majority of bikers are gals, elderly, and especially children, and they are not likely to resort to that 'cure'.


    If anyone wants some interesting insights on dog bite ask your neighborhood mail carrier, they have long been a favorite target of Fido.

  21. #71
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    All of the above. Spray HALT, spray a water bottle, out-sprint the dog (if you think you can), stop and put the bike between you and the dog if you can't, YELL at the dog (NO! GO HOME!), just be ready with all those responses, and use the appropriate tool for the situation.

    One other thing is avoidance- if you see the dog first, and can avoid it, do that. I do a lot of urban riding, and when I see a dog, a lot of the time I can jog over a block and avoid it- that sort of thing. Your fear of dogs is good for that- use it to drive your "dog radar" and try to see the dogs before they see you.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  22. #72
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRedfield View Post
    the majority of bikers are gals, elderly, and especially children
    Where do you get that notion?
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  23. #73
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spivonious View Post
    Wow, I must be doing something wrong because I've never been attacked by a dog, and have only been bitten once by my own dog when I was a kid. She was very food-territorial and I was being an annoying kid. She turned around and clamped on my arm, and then let go when I screamed. That makes 31 years with no dog attacks and one provoked bite incident.

    There are a few neighborhood dogs that took a few weeks to get used to someone on a bicycle, but they are inside of the invisible fences, so they never got into the road. They would run full speed along the edge of their property. Even then not aggressive, just more wanting to chase and see what I was.

    If you see an unleashed/unrestrained dog up ahead, take an alternate route. If no alternate exists, slow down to walking speed and start talking to the dog. If the dog seems aggressive (barking, no tail-wagging, etc.), stop and get off the bike. Dogs are (usually) used to seeing people, but not so used to seeing bicycles. If you get off and walk the bike, they'll most likely realize that you're a person and either want to be petted or lose interest. Of course, if the dog seems sick or injured, stay as far away as you can and report it to the authorities.

    Are there dogs who are just plain mean and will bite anything that comes near? Of course, most due to poor owners (and really nothing to do with breed; those stating that pit bulls have some special jaw-clamping behavior are repeating an urban legend). The sad fact is that a lot of pit bull owners mistreat their dogs and train them to be "fighters". The same thing could happen to chihuahuas if there was enough interest in chihuahua fighting rings.

    OP: Don't worry about dogs.
    The OP started this thread in 2005.

    From your post I'm guessing you've never been riding along and suddenly heard vicious barking and the sound of claws racing on the asphalt behind you. I've only had it happen twice and it's terrifying.

    Even small dogs like chihuahuas have sharp teeth and when they come from behind very quickly there's not a whole lot of options open. The first time I was able to ride fast enough to get away. The second time there was a group of us and fortunately the owner came out and called off the dog saying something like "I don't know why he did that. He never chases anything."
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
    So Tom only hires people that are nutty? Is part of the requirement to be a moderator on this site is that you have to be nuts??
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  24. #74
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    WOW

    I still say you guys are scared of the wrong mammals.
    34 dog deaths-mainly children-not athletic adult males.
    10,000 or more murders-most of the victims and perps- ADULT MALES just like you folks
    You guys are peeing in your pants worrying about dogs-far more likely-300X -to be killed -INTENTIONALLY by a fellow adult male human-
    and there are 700 BICYCLE WRECK DEATHS- per year- usually meaning hit by car- 20x MORE LIKELY.

    I wonder how many BEE STING deaths there are per year?? Carry bug spray??

    I'm a big believer in self defense-meaning ******* *****- but I don't drag one around on a bike .If I bothered to carry a ******(SIG 229 40 or Glock 27 actual ammunition hardly matters-hitting matters)-it wouldn't be for dogs. When I ride at night-yeah-but not for dogs-maybe a tiny 22 Beretta .

    PS Buddy of mine-really really into shooting reloading -casting etc- not a bad guy but he just LOVED his guns.
    He is a hobby rancher now-and sure enough he found an excuse to SHOOT one of his own cows-NOT A BULL- a freakin cow-said it was attacking him-shot him with his 45. Now we all know-he wanted to find out how that 45-with his cast bullets-would perform.So he got himself attacked/cornered by a COW! And he was strapped while doing whatever ranch corral thing he was doing-(vaccines maybe?)
    My point-folks who love to shoot things- love their guns- find excuses to shoot things!


    You folks are worried about the wrong mammals.

  25. #75
    Senior Member Essex's Avatar
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    On a pro-dog note - I was riding a untraveled road here in Cape Ann and suddenly I see a large Corso/Great Dane mix move into the center of the road and completely block my path up the hill. I am thinking "oh boy." I proceed up the hill slowly and start to notice his demeanor which was slow, sure and friendly. He seemed to be smiling.

    I continue up the hill and start talking to him and it results in him stopping me so that he can get a ton of pets. He was probably close to 120-130 lbs of dog. As keeper of the road it was his job to collect pets and affection from users of the road.

    Best surprise in a long time from a great dog. There are ALL sorts of pups out there.

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