CliffordK

This is the "safety" subforum.

Part of being safe is to analyse accidents to try to figure out what one could have done to be safer, and to prevent the accident. There simply isn't enough jail space to throw all the car drivers into jail. So cyclists, pedestrians, and car drivers all have to learn to safely share the road, each doing their part for safety. As a pedestrian or cyclist, you an control yourself, not those around you.

Late night accident. What can a pedestrian do to be safer.

1. Walk towards the oncoming traffic so one can see what is happening. Headlights can be blinding, but one can still move over when cars approach.
2. Lights, reflectors, and bright clothing. So many pedestrians wear dark clothing and are nearly invisible. I was on the bike path the other day, and as I approached some pedestrians, they simply held their cell phone over their shoulder... better than nothing.

SHBR

So you think you are above all possible human error? This lady drove for probably decades without incident, and one day, **** happens. This wasn't homicide. A lapse in judgement that had fatal results. Very different in my opinion. Quite classy of you to offer to kill someone though.

CB HI

You clearly choose to ignore the point that was made, just to dish crap. **** did not just happen, a deliberate decision to continue driving a machine that so easily kills, regardless of the risk to others is just callous. You are right about one thing, the lady probably made the same callous decision many times before and got lucky she did not kill any of those times.

I do not include an intentional decision that endangers other as simple human error.

CB HI

So deal wth the actual safety issue that caused this death, driving while sleepy.

It would have been just a dangerous walking against traffic with two pedestrians and two bicycles to get off the road before the motorist runs into you. The white reflector you claim might have made the pedestrians with bicycles safer, might have confused a motorist causing two dead pedestrians. I guess your suggestion would be for them to walk their bicycles backwards to show the red reflector to oncoming motorist.Sure would not make getting the bicycle off the road easier though.

Again, it was not an accident, it was a willful act by a motorist that killed.

SHBR

This is based on the drivers own statement, we weren't there, we don't know. This was not a D.U.I. and there is no mention of mobile phone use etc. The unfortunate reality is, that these kinds of accidents happen on a daily basis. If there was a prior record of malicious intent the punishment would be more severe.

The dangers of motor vehicles were well known several decades ago, yet nothing has changed, that doesn't happen by accident.

This holier than thou attitude isn't going to solve anything.

jefnvk

Sorry, never realized I was talking to a saint who has never ever had a momentary lapse, who never got distracted by something even for a moment, who even though they willfully admit they break traffic laws, always does it in a safe manner that increases the risk to no one around them

mconlonx

This is largely the way it does work in many states. In NH, if you're more than double the legal limit, it's considered an aggravated charge and the penalties are harsher.

mconlonx

If we want to get all outraged about this decision, we can, but it might be useful to review how that court has decided other vehicular homicide cases of a similar nature, and maybe even expand that to surrounding jurisdictions, the state, and the region, for just a bit of perspective and to see how we might view this decision relative to other decisions to see if there's actually a case to be made regarding deaths of cyclists vs. other road users and any differences in charges, resolutions, and penalties.

Or we can just rant away in our little echo chamber here...

rydabent

I could not agree more. If you are so deranged as to want to kill someone, just buy a bike and run over them!!!!

This kind of nonsense by the justice system HAS to change!!!! Why are the lives of cyclist so cheap.

rydabent

Here is another outrageous killing by a driver, who didnt see, swerved, or offers some other excuse. IMO the justice system is so tilted against cyclist it is criminal.

Fortunately the family of the cyclist can and should resort to civil court. They can sue for wrongful death, and I hope they sue for every last penny they can get!!!!!

jefnvk

Just so we can stop with thinking it definitely would have been different if it was a vehicle he hit: Driver distracted by sandwich, GPS embraces father of boy killed in crash | MLive.com

That man got 18 months probation and community service for killing a teen in a minivan when he was eating a sandwich and fiddling with a GPS, hitting stopped traffic on the Interstate at full speed.

vol

If there is no apparent cause/explanation of why the driver hit the victim, how can one trust she will not have the same happen again? Just because it's her first doesn't mean it's her last. Btw this early report shows a video of the road: Only in The Republic of Amherst: A Death In The Dead Of Night

CliffordK

Is she any more likely to hit another pedestrian than the other two hundred million drivers in the USA?

Other than the fact that she'll have her drivers license revoked for a couple of years, then will have limited daylight driving privileges for additional time. And, no doubt, this will haunt her for the rest of her life.

Will sitting in a jail cell make her into a safer driver?

CB HI

The holier than thou attitude is what has kept me from having motor vehicle collisions. It is also what has prevented me from causing a nuclear weapons incident or a nuclear reactor melt down, or a submarine sinking - killing a crew of 120. It has prevents death at hazardous work sites.

I want the pilots on the airliners I fly to have the same holier than thou attitude.

If all motorist had the same holier than thou attitude, we would not have near the 30,000 to 40,000 deaths a year on our highways.

Again, they are not accidents when they could have and should have been prevented.

CliffordK

Yes,

If we would all just let the Tesla driver take over that can't tell the difference between a truck and the sky.

CB HI

Take note, that the two times that I mentioned I exceed the speed limit was for my increased safety because of how others violated traffic speeds.

Yes, because it will make her a non-driver during her jail time. Plus it will give her a firmer reminder of why she should never drive sleepy again. May not work, but it is worth a try. Sadly, killing someone is not enough to change many motorist ways.

A reminder, the killer in this case fell asleep at the wheel after a long drive.

CB HI

Not an accident either, since Tesla put a produce on the road before it was ready and the driver trusted the technology when Tesla even told him not to.

genec

The product was quite ready, to do what it was designed to do... the driver failed to heed the warnings and did not use the product correctly.

hilltowner

For comparison's sake, and it's not a one-to-one correspondence so it's hard to generalize, but the superior court in the next county north of the one where the Amherst case was tried, put a 20 year old behind bars for 5 years for killing someone while driving under the influence, though that was only upon his admission since he wasn't charged for that. I know the kid. I wrote a letter of character reference. He still got a pretty stiff sentence IMO. If he'd happened to take out someone on a bicycle instead of rear-ending a car would the sentence have been any different? Some would say "probably, yes".

Buckland man pleads guilty to causing fatal crash on Route 2; sentenced to 5 years in jail | masslive.com

CB HI

The product missed a semi-truck, bet that was not in the Tesla warning.

vol

She got a punishment that is like a scratch on the skin, I'm not sure "this will haunt her for the rest of her life". It depends on what kind of person she is, but it's not impossible that having avoided jail sentence, she'll breathe a sigh of huge relief and try not to think about this and let the memory ruin the rest of her life. It would haunt her if she were sitting in a jail. The victim is dead and her family will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

More importantly, each result of such cases can have impact on other drivers' attitudes. One might think it's not a big deal to drive while sleepy: even if you hit and kill someone, you just need to put on a sad face and tell the judge you've been living with the tragedy every day, that you've been suffering enough so should be spared of jail.

It's a punishment and also deters others from making the same mistake. This is not a case where someone suffered a medical emergency and couldn't control the wheel. It's the result of conscious decisions and bad judgment. Even just 1 year in jail would have given her some time to think about what she has done and will do. So far she had been thinking about it a lot but only in the context of impending punishment.

Crime-fighting robot hits, rolls over child at Silicon Valley mall - LA Times Not sure if the parents will sue (the company, not the robot), but they probably would if the boy had died.

jefnvk

I'm hardly a religious person, but the saying "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" comes to mind.

Everyone is a good driver until they no longer are. It is great that you don't play with a cell phone or drive drunk. Those are easy things to do, that a lot of people can manage. Telling me straight up, that in all the time you may or may not have behind the wheel, you have never been momentarily distracted for whatever reason, either leads me to believe you are oblivious to when you do or are far too confident in your own abilities. Never once caught yourself looking at a cool building? Never had a kid in the back acting a bit rambunctious that you didn't look in the mirror to yell at? Never once caught yourself with tunnel vision paying attention to one obstacle, only to quickly realize there is another you missed? Never ever passed a cute girl or guy and took one extra look?

Congratulations if you can honestly tell me that every last time you have been behind the wheel, you've focused every last bit of attention on nothing but exactly what needed paying attention to. You are either superhuman, or a liar, or have spent a grand total of an hour driving. Distraction is simply human nature, it affects everyone, you included.

No, I'm not going to think that someone on a first offense who had a momentary lapse in judgement who ended up unintentionally killing someone else needs to spend decades in prison. No, I don't think it is going to make them think about what they've done, or protect society, in any better way. I'm willing to stake my life that when someone who otherwise has never had issues with the law does such a thing, the fact that they took a life is enough punishment they need to never do it again, even if I step it up a bit with driving bans and community service.

If that is how you feel, though, lets just up it to a life for a life. That'll really make sure they never screw up again, and knowing the penalty for vehicular homicide resulting in death is the death penalty, should make everyone drive with the utmost care.

CB HI

Seems you do not have the sense to make sure the roadway ahead of you is clear before you check your mirrors, or tell a child to behave. I can see why you are so defensive.

I do understand my limitations and I make sure I drive safely within those limitations.

If I ever take a life in other than self defense with either a gun or a car, I would accept jail time as reasonable. The only question is how much jail time is reasonable.

CB HI

This thread reminds me of this motorist.

genec

The driver must keep hands on the wheel and stay alert... THAT was in the Tesla warning.

Driver failed at that.

The feature was never meant to allow for full self driving... it was a driver assist feature.

But this all belongs in a different thread... if you care to continue to discuss it.