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Old 07-19-16, 08:40 PM   #1
seeker333
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Update on "5 cyclists killed in Kalamazoo"

More detail revealed:

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/...s_on_pick.html
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Old 07-19-16, 08:55 PM   #2
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Friggin' Terrible. Bikes hit from behind at nearly 60mph.
I say give him the death penalty.
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Old 07-19-16, 09:20 PM   #3
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Thats a very sad story. I am at a loss of what would be appropriate for this guy. Jury will have a difficult job if it goes to trial. A true scum of the earth.
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Old 07-19-16, 10:56 PM   #4
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In a sane world, people like him would be euthanized (although he is deserving of a dogs death not a kind one) for the good of society. They should have let him die in the ambulance.
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Old 07-20-16, 06:10 AM   #5
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While I can understand the hate, let's keep this thread free of any further such posts. Please use this thread to update the condition of the victims and the alledged perpetrator's trial.
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Old 07-20-16, 07:03 AM   #6
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Thanks cb....

Wishing death upon the guy is serious bad Karma.
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Old 07-20-16, 03:41 PM   #7
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Thanks for the update
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Old 07-20-16, 05:48 PM   #8
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Not knowing that one's pain pills can cause drowsiness. Is no excuse. Nine counts of Negligent Homicide.
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Old 07-20-16, 06:56 PM   #9
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He is being charged with 5 counts of causing death by driving while intoxicated, and 5 counts of second degree murder. Who are the other 4, and where do you come up with negligent homicide?
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Old 08-05-16, 07:11 PM   #10
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He is being charged with 5 counts of causing death by driving while intoxicated, and 5 counts of second degree murder. Who are the other 4, and where do you come up with negligent homicide?
Negligent in the operation his vehicle, and homicide because of fleeing the scene.
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Old 08-05-16, 08:06 PM   #11
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I reread the article quoted, the other four are a type of DUI. There are no charges of negligent homicide, no matter what you would like to see/claim. Unless adtional charges have been files, but I am basing this on the link provided above.
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Old 08-06-16, 06:06 AM   #12
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I still get emotional when I read updates on this crime. First, I'm from just up the road in Grand Rapids and spent a lot of time in Kalamazoo. Second, the victims seemed a lot like me. Middle-aged folk who ride for fun, fitness, and friendship. We all know bad things can happen when we ride, but to give in to it is unthinkable. We have to live on and carry their spirits with us.
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Old 08-06-16, 07:58 AM   #13
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I still get emotional when I read updates on this crime. First, I'm from just up the road in Grand Rapids and spent a lot of time in Kalamazoo. Second, the victims seemed a lot like me. Middle-aged folk who ride for fun, fitness, and friendship. We all know bad things can happen when we ride, but to give in to it is unthinkable. We have to live on and carry their spirits with us.
I feel the same way. This incident rally hits close to home, no matter where you ride. I pray that these people did not die in vain, and that this crash may somehow be a turning point.
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Old 08-11-16, 07:43 PM   #14
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The NTSB have released a preliminary report of their investigation of the events.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-but-welcome/

The preliminary NTSB report does not provide much more detail than many media accounts of the June 7 accident near Kalamazoo. But the NTSB’s interest in a bicycle accident is unusual. The agency decided that the crash was worth investigating not only because of its severity but because of the growing popularity of bicycling as an alternative to vehicles.

“We last looked at cycling in the early 1970s,” NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss said in an email Tuesday. “We’re looking at the Kalamazoo crash as part of an effort to examine the future roadway, where cars and trucks increasingly share the road with cyclists and pedestrians.”

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Old 08-11-16, 10:26 PM   #15
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I was very saddened that morning because a week earlier I was hit by a car while out riding solo. I was riding home from a group ride when I was hit by a car. i was very fortunate that my life was spared that day. The EMT said that if I have not had my helmet on, I would not be here. I suffered a broken arm (surgery to have a metal plate and 9 screws), C6 fracture and T11 fracture. I am 2 months and 1 week into my recovery. I have use of my left arm again. I am back at work. I just wear a neck collar and I get to start weaning it off Aug 25th. I am so excited. I should be back in the saddle in October It is going to be so hard to get back on the bike, but I have got to do it. Any suggestions? I am planning on getting a group to ride with me the first ride for moral support.

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Old 08-12-16, 06:40 AM   #16
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“We last looked at cycling in the early 1970s,” NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss said in an email Tuesday. “We’re looking at the Kalamazoo crash as part of an effort to examine the future roadway, where cars and trucks increasingly share the road with cyclists and pedestrians.”[/I]
Glad to hear it. Never understood why ALL roads weren't designed by default with cyclists, motorists AND pedestrians taken into account. It shocks me how many urban areas I've been to that don't have sidewalks in the city, and a three foot paved shoulder that is kept clean designated for bikes on all paved rural roads could not only bring safety, but reduced road maintenance by keeping heavy vehicles away from the shoulder where cracks form.
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Old 08-12-16, 08:11 AM   #17
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I am very sorry for the families of the cyclists who have to live in the wake of this terrible event.

However, a few things.

We don't know if the driver HATED bicyclists. He was apparently trying to forget the world and probably was debating committing suicide that night. No one has that many drugs/alcohol and goes out for a drive without those thoughts. You can't stop people from doing things like this. People will always have access to drugs and always have access to alcohol and marijuana. Did he purposely hit the cyclists? We'll never know honestly, and I'm sure his impaired "state" will be used to try to get him a lighter sentence... Unfortunately.

As for the "well he hasn't been convicted of this or this yet." He's been charged with 5 counts of operating a vehicle while intoxicated causing death and 5 counts of 2nd degree murder. (Among other things.) He's going to go to jail for a long time, most likely the rest of his life. Does it matter what he is charged with?

As for... euthanising... him... The death penalty doesn't dissuade people from committing crimes. Don't believe me? Look it up. It is also LUDICROUSLY expensive to actually do the deed. While some people probably could use it, the local and federal government is essentially a business, and most of them choose not to spend money on things like that simply so someone can "feel better/get retribution."

As for more... extreme... punishments. We're good humans. We cannot stoop to levels of criminals. Period.
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Old 08-12-16, 10:08 AM   #18
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“We last looked at cycling in the early 1970s,” NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss said in an email Tuesday. “We’re looking at the Kalamazoo crash as part of an effort to examine the future roadway, where cars and trucks increasingly share the road with cyclists and pedestrians.”
Unfortunately I don't think anything would have helped in this case where a guy who's drugged out of his mind goes on a rampage around town in a several-ton battering ram.
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Old 08-12-16, 10:15 AM   #19
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Pills, booze, weed... If society didn't bother legislating against these things, a killer of innocents like this would have taken himself out a long time ago. Arch conservative William F. Buckley was so intelligent he realized more >20 years ago that the War on Drugs was Lost and that legislation against drugs was futile.


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Old 08-12-16, 10:36 AM   #20
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Any suggestions? I am planning on getting a group to ride with me the first ride for moral support.
Whatever it takes. If a group would help you out, assemble a recovery bike-squad. Or join in some other group ride for that first ride. After that, maybe develop a regular ride with a buddy or two. I'd hope that once you get over a general fear or apprehension about riding on the roads again, you'd be able to cycle on your own. But maybe not -- do what you need to do.
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Old 08-12-16, 03:56 PM   #21
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... Any suggestions?...
Well...a couple of years ago I gave up recreational bike riding entirely before I got clobbered. Not unlikely I saved myself all of the drama you had to go through if not worse.

I am happy you are getting better and posting in person instead of headlining yet another "Dead Cyclist" thread. My suggestion...thank your lucky stars and seriously consider removing yourself from the cross-hairs. Even though cycling was my life for many, many years I am now much happier with my new/renewed hobbies and vigorously pursue them at substantially less risk of death. The wife is happier too.
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Old 08-12-16, 04:36 PM   #22
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The NTSB have released a preliminary report of their investigation of the events.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...e-but-welcome/

The preliminary NTSB report does not provide much more detail than many media accounts of the June 7 accident near Kalamazoo. But the NTSB’s interest in a bicycle accident is unusual. The agency decided that the crash was worth investigating not only because of its severity but because of the growing popularity of bicycling as an alternative to vehicles.

“We last looked at cycling in the early 1970s,” NTSB spokesman Eric Weiss said in an email Tuesday. “We’re looking at the Kalamazoo crash as part of an effort to examine the future roadway, where cars and trucks increasingly share the road with cyclists and pedestrians.”
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Unfortunately I don't think anything would have helped in this case where a guy who's drugged out of his mind goes on a rampage around town in a several-ton battering ram.
What would have helped are smart cars that can keep it between the lines, and brake for road obstacles.

Intoxication lock-outs?

New technology won't necessarily help owners of old vehicles, but the majority of vehicles are either taken off the road by 20 years, or have much fewer miles than the new cars, so start now, and most cars will have the technology in a few decades.

How about quicker and more accurate police response to reckless driving complaints?

In some cases rumble strips along the fog lines in ridable shoulders (along with good shoulder design and maintenance), but not necessarily with that accident. Is there ever lane confusion with very wide shoulders? Lines marking NOT A LANE?

Another option might be renewed interest in off-street bike paths, especially long paths (again with good maintenance). Golf Carts?
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Old 08-12-16, 04:57 PM   #23
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Is there ever lane confusion with very wide shoulders?
Seen it in a few places. The most effective tactic for eliminating it seemed to be those big half-a-bowling-ball looking domes spaced in a pattern that made for 3-4' wide bike "lanes" while making them pretty much impossible to miss with a car.
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Old 08-12-16, 05:02 PM   #24
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Seen it in a few places. The most effective tactic for eliminating it seemed to be those big half-a-bowling-ball looking domes spaced in a pattern that made for 3-4' wide bike "lanes" while making them pretty much impossible to miss with a car.
Hmmm...

Big enough, and they wouldn't necessarily be dangerous for a car, but extremely annoying. More aggravating to hit with a bike.

Reports are that Pickett was driving completely on the shoulder. Would they have been enough to wake him up?
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Old 08-12-16, 05:18 PM   #25
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Big enough, and they wouldn't necessarily be dangerous for a car, but extremely annoying. More aggravating to hit with a bike.
I don't recall seeing any of the ones I'm thinking of recently, but they were metal, hemispherical, bolted down, (unlike Bott's Dots or some of the 4-6" diameter hemispheres that are placed with adhesive) and big enough that hitting them over 10-15mph in even a pickup would jerk the wheel hard. I've seen cars disabled with busted control arms from hitting them at full speed, but that (when they're reflectorized and maintained properly) goes back to my general assertion that someone who can't avoid hitting a stationary high-visibility object outside the normal driving lane should probably have to at least pay for some expensive repairs as encouragement to drive better.

Their biggest drawback seemed to be the lack of maintenance, leading to a lack of paint, and a grayish metal lump (not all had reflectors) doesn't stand out well against pavement. I'm sure that, and the general whining from the same people who demanded breakaway sign and mailbox posts led to them being removed, or at least not replaced.
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