JoeyBike

The vast majority of these victims either swerved or were knocked under the wheels of a passing bus or truck by someone opening a car door in front of them.

https://bicyclesafe.com/doorprize.html

I wonder if any of the "swerved to miss the door - hit by truck" people were using a rear-view mirror? I would never let a vehicle trap me in a door zone at speed...but then again...my mirror keeps me alerted to these situations before they become dire.
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Jim from Boston

Hi JoeyBike,

I am assuming that this current thread is a corollary to the concurrent A&S thread “Mirrors???.” After numerous posts to these mirror popcorn threads, I decided “No mas.” My most recent reply promoting mirrors was to this thread "Truck! Horn! Mirror! Truck!Adrenaline!!!!!":

I express my main argument for mirrors by Jim’s Law of the Road: "No matter how lightly traveled or well paved road, a vehicle is likely to pass you on the left, as you encounter an obstacle on the right." And surely a car door is one of the most frequent and dangerous obstacles. I have an aphorism, “ Like a weapon, always assume a stopped car is loaded, with an occupant ready to exit, from either side.

B. Carfree

There's an even better way to avoid winning a door prize: don't ride in the door zone. It's worked for me for hundreds of thousands of miles with only one close call. That one oddity was an overtaking car in which the passenger opened his door in an attempt to put me in the ditch. Thankfully, I was listening and heard the speed change where there should not have been one, so I had enough warning to time my move to the right with some braking to avoid the moron. Had I been relying solely on a mirror, I would have been in the ditch or under his wheels.

JoeyBike

The "Mirrors???" thread got me thinking about the guy in New Orleans that got crushed by a semi after swerving to avoid an opening door. This happened several years ago on a street I knew very well. It is a one-way street with two lanes of traffic, cars parked on both sides (parallel) and at the time had a terrible surface. This is one of the very few streets in my city where I just took a lane and eff everybody who doesn't like it. Most times I could keep up with traffic as if on a motorcycle anyway.

But the accident got me thinking about "did the guy have a mirror?" Unlikely anyone would chose to dive under a semi to avoid hitting a door. If I saw the semi coming up in my mirror, I would either sprint up to my best speed and take the lane, or dive into an empty parking space or fire hydrant lane and let him go past. But if I had no clue the truck was approaching - other than the sound mixed in with every other sound a city center makes - would be the only way I swerve under his wheels.

I looked up the old Bicycle Safety Website remembering the list I linked. So many people bounced off the door and under a truck or bus or swerved and got smashed. Just seems a needless waste of life to me. Of course, lack of cycling experience is likely much worse than lack of a mirror. Might a mirror have helped any of these people? No way to know, same as the helmet argument except we all will agree that a bike helmet is worth nothing under a semi wheel.

canklecat

I was doored once, more of a side-scrape. Commuting in Wash DC, a limo passenger opened his door. It was a suicide type door, so my pedal scraped the door and knocked it partway shut into the guy. He jumped out and fussed at me in some language that sounded like universal cussing. Considering he was dressed in a tux for a formal shindig, and I was a lowly enlisted man in the Navy, I decided the best solution was to waggle some fingers in a vaguely universal sign of disapproval and skeedaddle.

Since then I take the lane when passing parked cars, especially those parked in the bike lane.

vol

Sometimes not practical.

For me it helps that I never ride too fast. The mirrors are even more helpful when you are slow.

I just noticed you are in New Orleans. This is not related to dooring (not meaning to hijack the thread), but since I just read about two almost identical and equally horrific fatalities involving cyclists being right hooked and run over by big trucks at exactly the same intersection, 9 years apart, I'm sure you know about it? The intersection is at St. Claude Ave.and Elysian Fields Ave. I was thinking New Orleans members here should all be made aware of the danger of that intersection: Marigny intersection where cyclist was killed was the scene of a nearly identical wreck in 2005 | NOLA.com

B. Carfree

Those times, in my experience, are rare enough to not worry about. I also don't prioritize the momentary speed desires of people in cars over my life or my health.

Jim from Boston

Quote:

Originally Posted by canklecat

I was doored once, more of a side-scrape. Commuting in Wash DC, a limo passenger opened his door.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

...I express my main argument for mirrors by Jim’s Law of the Road: "No matter how lightly traveled or well paved road, a vehicle is likely to pass you on the left, as you encounter an obstacle on the right." And surely a car door is one of the most frequent and dangerous obstacles. I have an aphorism, “Like a weapon, always assume a stopped car is loaded, with an occupant ready to exit, from either side.'

For a terrifying real-time video of such a situation see this video posted a couple years ago on BF. Not a ”Jim” scenario, but it drives the message home of constant vigilance and danger-avoidance, mirror notwithstanding.

JoeyBike

Yes. Made big news here.

canklecat

I'm not squeamish, but I think I'll pass on watching that video. I prefer to believe that most folks are decent, won't try to kill us and will apologize if there's an accident. That's been my overwhelming experience riding the past year after a 30+ year hiatus from cycling. There have been a few unpleasant incidents, but I'd rather not dwell on those.

Jim from Boston

The video will spook you, but the damage was not terrible, seemingly with carelessness by both parties. BTW, while I always ride wide of parked cars, I have had doors open just as I pass. On all occasions I let out a shout, and the drivers quickly retracted back into the car, like a tortoise into its shell. That might be the last defense if you can react quickly enough.

canklecat

Biggest risk I encountered yesterday was a guy pulling a U-turn and then driving his car directly toward me, running against traffic, down the bike lane. Totally oblivious. Not trying to hit me - he never even looked up at me. Just a clueless doofus making up his own traffic routes for his convenience.

Chris0516

I watched the video. The behavior of the businessman getting out of the taxi in Victoria. Was something I would have expected in New York City. But, I guess people in Victoria, are just as pious, self-absorbed.

But the one thing above all else, that annoyed me. Was that the audio was taken out. First, During the altercation. Then during some radio interview with a bicycle advocacy group.

Camilo

No, what you should be doing is riding safely all the time, not only when you use your mirror to see if someone is behind you. You should never ride in the door zone no matter what the traffic behind you is. Therefore, the mirror doesn't (or shouldn't) improve your safety.

Don't ride in the door zone, don't swerve suddenly. Ride predictably and safely at all times.

Camilo

Now please don't get me wrong. I"m not condoning the dooring in that video. But I was anticipating the problem several cars before the door was opened. It just seemed like an accident waiting to happen - the bicyclist passing stopped cars with such a small distance between the cars and the curb. I'm thinking I wouldn't have done it and I'm not surprised the cyclist was doored and think she could and should have avoided it.

CB HI

Dana Laird (July 2, 2002, Cambridge, MA)

I remember all the talk about buses and trucks getting side guards to protect people.

Seems there has not been much (any) progress in that area.

mr_bill

(I remember all the complaints about FRAP. Seems that there has not been *ANY* progress in *YOU* repealing FRAP in *YOUR* area.)

Note that the MBTA Bus design in 2002 (and 2016 for that matter) have low sides - lower than the 15" specified for truck side guards. (Side guards *reduce* but do not *eliminate* crushing risk.)

FWIW, I ride past 501 Massachusetts Avenue in Cambridge *ALL* *THE* *TIME*. It took far too long, but in 2011, Massachusetts Avenue was finally reconstructed, there is now a buffer (could be wider here) between parking and the bike lane. The BIGGEST problem remains illegal parking. It is *WAY* too common for vehicles to be parked a few FEET from the curb. They are *RARELY* ticketed. (Joey, this is one problem that you don't seem to have in NOLA.) And it does *NOT* matter how wide the buffer is, somebody will figure out how to park partially in the bike lane.

I ride in so-called Door Zone Bike Lanes. I don't ride in the door zone. Which means I'm on the left edge of the bike lane, or, when someone has "pahked the cah" Boston-style, I'm not in the bike lane at all. Well before I've reached the "pahked cah."


Sadly, Amanda Phillips was doored and killed on June 23 of this year in Inman Square. This was the day *after* an initial meeting to outline the redesign of Inman Square to make it safer for people in cars, people on foot, and people on bicycles. The investigation is ongoing, but police have said she "entered the roadway from the sidewalk and struck the open door of a parked Jeep." (When in doubt, blame the victim.)

Left unsaid by the police - how far the driver parked their Jeep from the curb - evidently a yard stick is insufficient, it will take several weeks and a full reconstruction report before they can say anything about that:



-mr. bill

northernlights

Door prize, is that like a Darwin award?

Riding on the sidewalk or in between the parked and moving cars? Which is more dangerous?
The latter is playing Russian Roulette with car doors, you never know which one is going to open on you.

JoeyBike

Which is why we should not strive to bike too close to parked cars. Sure I have done it more than a few times and only keep my speed up past parked cars I can see into clearly. If I find myself spending quality time in the door zone it is usually because the travel lanes are in total gridlock. Happy to be getting anywhere through the gridlock, I slow way down so that if I get doored, it won't be a big deal.

All of ^^that being said, we should strive to spend zero time exposed to dooring hazards. Any stopped vehicle with doors is a hazard from either side, which is why I prefer splitting lanes of traffic that are moving and do not like splitting lanes when all the cars come to a complete stop, and NEVER along side of parked cars. Passengers are more likely to bail out of the vehicle from any door, even the driver's door when cars are dead stopped in a lane (in a city center where double-parking to let passengers out is common).
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indyfabz

Several years ago, in toney Moorestown, NJ, a beloved, local doctor was doored. The collision knocked him off his bike and into oncoming traffic, where was run over and killed by a motorist who could not stop in time.


Maybe 6 or 7 years ago I was commuting to my NJ office when I was almost doored by a woman getting out of an SUV to go to Starbucks. I could see she was about to open her door so I went wide. As I passed, I noticed it was a lawyer who does work for my employer and with whom I had worked closely on a big case. When I got to the office, I emailed her and let her know it was me she almost creamed. Small world, isn't it.

northernlights

But when you move away from the door zone you expose yourself to the oncoming cars, trucks, buses, SUVs, a catch-22 situation. Pick your poison, either way is a you know what sandwich. The larger the vehicle the greater the exposure and lesser room for error.

JoeyBike

Not to beat a dead horse even more but my mirror helps me know what is coming up behind me so I can plan ahead. Most of my door-zone exposure comes from passing slow or stopped cars. Gotta watch out for the parked car AND the cars in the right lane dumping passengers. In this case I ride slow and keep hands ready to brake.

Yeah...sometimes it is a Catch-22. I really try to never be trapped like that.
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Moe Zhoost

Dooring, my biggest fear. I try to avoid the door zone, but when I can't, you better believe I am monitoring the parked cars for people. I doubt that any motorist has a clue of how dangerous this is, and probably feels that a cyclist riding out of the door zone is just being arrogant.

Leisesturm

You may be right, the latter may be dangerous, but the former is illegal. I would rather manage risk than risk being managed. YMMV.

northernlights

You can use your mirrors or hear traffic coming from behind, but you can't hear cars suddenly pulling out from their parking space without warning which could be more dangerous than a door. And you don't have a horn.



Depends on where you live. In most of the places I have lived I see people riding on sidewalks all the time, and have done it plenty of times myself. As long as you're riding slowly and with reasonable judgment I don't think anyone cares, especially if you live near a beach or waterfront area. That's from my own experience though can't speak for anyone else. The police have never bothered me about it when they see me. That's probably because I'm usually riding with my wife or teenage kids, who I certainly don't want riding on the street in most cases. An adult male riding by himself in a downtown urban area might be more likely to get stopped.