asmac

Leap frog happens with streetcars too. In addition, because they are in the middle of the road, all traffic including bikes must stop when streetcar doors are open,. Then everyone rushes to pass before parked cars block the way and get in front of the streetcar. It can be an unsafe situation. Streetcars are a big PITA.

Dahon.Steve

The streetcar cannot leap frog over you. Once you pass the vehicle, it must ride behind you.

If you search the web, most of the accidents with the street car have nothing to do with the vehicle running into the cyclist. The accidents are due mostly due to cyclist having their front wheel trapped in between the track. They can be fatal!

I-Like-To-Bike

I wasn't aware that the people living in the adjacent public housing projects or the renters who will live in the proposed high rise/high rent apartments that this transit line will serve (allegedly better than a bus route) own their own home or will have any opportunity to buy homes anywhere near this proposed route.

asmac

The second paragraph I agree with but the first part tells me you don't spend a lot of time riding with streetcars. That's not really the way it works.

vol

Actually, streetcars may have the track hazard, but it can help reduce other accidents such as right hooks.

indyfabz

+1. The Camden-Trenton light rail system that skeptics said would prove to be a waste has been a big success and has spurred economic development. In fact, some of the communities south of Camden that passed on the line when it was first proposed now want it extended. Thing is, no agency wants to step up and take official sponsorship of the project, so the feds won't provide any funding.

I-Like-To-Bike

Did any part of the Camden-Trenton light rail system require building a new rail system on a street route (let alone a subway as suggested by one poster) through an area already extremely dense in already existing surface and underground infrastructure as found in NYC. Or was it essentially just a matter of building a light rail line on already existing railroad roadbeds and right of ways?

Quite a difference in actual constructions costs from the proposed new Brooklyn-Queens street car line, doncha think? No wonder few agencies want to take official sponsorship and pay for a massive Boondoogle Project that is unlikely to have an economic or social benefit justifying its enormous costs.

CliffordK

Economic development is not always a bad thing, although one could argue on who should foot the bill.

For a rail line, perhaps it doesn't make a huge difference whether one bills the people at the origin or the destination.

One issue is that very few public transport systems are actually self-supporting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

I'm not sure why Asian transport systems can make money, while the USA relies on 50% or more tax subsidies. Different accounting? Somehow different with their routes? At least the NYC subways carry a lot of people, and still lose money.

indyfabz

Additional tracks and other facilities were built, existing infrastructure was re-configured and much signal and related work was performed because of the federal regs that require physical or temporal separation between freight and passenger operations and because NJT took over dispatching operations. Don't know what the final cost was, but it was not cheap in any way shape or form. I do know that the purchase price of the line was $67.5 million since I have the sale agreement in front of me. And, of course, new passenger equipment also has to be purchased.


But none of that was really the point of my comment.


Shame that you just like to be contrary, just **** the people who thought the service would be a flop. Try not to earn yourself another "time out" from BF.

Roughstuff

Thanks. I was wondering if the "bus-y-ness" of busses would outweigh the threat of the rails. Apparently so!

CliffordK

I thought I'd look at the Seattle - Tacoma light rail.
https://www.soundtransit.org/sites/de...rt%20FINAL.pdf

I'm not sure how much of the rail is dedicated vs shared. At least some spurs for station access (it can't even share the Amtrak
station). Nonetheless, the passengers are packed in like sardines. And the farebox recovery rate is still only about 30%.

Of course, it is probably quite a bit cheaper than driving.

I-Like-To-Bike

What was the point then: a booming real estate market in Camden, Trenton or somewhere in between as a result of Camden-Trenton rail line, or that light rail built on an already established right of way separated from road traffic is comparable to the proposed brand new street car line proposed for building in the middle of the streets of Brooklyn and Queens?

Too bad the street car high rollers (with taxpayers' money) in NYC cannot find an available RR right of way in NYC to lay down some street car tracks that might benefit their Real Estate Development interests. At least inexperienced cyclists probably wouldn't have as much conflict with tracks on a private right of way as they seem to have with tracks in the middle of the street.

Dahon.Steve

I was one of those skeptics who thought the New Jersey Transit Riverline (Camden-Trent train) light rail system was going to be a bus. It turns out the Riverline was one of the most successful implementations of lightrail in the country.

I took the Riverline the first day it opened and wondered why would they spend billions building a line that goes through the middle of nowhere. I then took the line three months ago and it amazes me how much development was constructed all along the line. Billions of dollars in development going up with luxury condos and business.

rydabent

Makes you wonder how much those studies cost the taxpayers. This something all cyclist should know from childhood.

CB HI

It should be noted that Kay and Mehgan, plus the other three researchers did not physically test which tires will fall into the flanges. They also did not record interview responses from shop employees. They only asked for measurements of flanges and tires from others and made no observations of their own.

Neither Kay or Meghan appear to cycle in Toronto, which by mr. bill's standards disqualifies them from commenting on Toronto bicycling.

JoeyBike

I learned the hard way at about 15. Just a few scrapes and a bent wheel thankfully.

mr_bill

If you learned the hard way, why did you get tracked again?

-mr. bill

CB HI

Maybe he was 15 years old back in the early 1970s. Thereby only getting tracked once.

mr_bill

Really? Wow.

The "first and last place"???

-mr. bill

JoeyBike

Both quotes are about the same event. I was 15 when i got tracked at Lee Circle.

CB HI

Too hard for you to figure out; OK!

Daniel4

My opinion for Toronto is to ban motor vehicle traffic from streets with street cars. That would be King, Queen, Spadina, Bathurst. Cars hate following street cars anyways so get rid of the cars. The result would allow more road space for cycists who can avoid the tracks.

Do I think this will be accepted? Of course not.

mr_bill

I remember the first time I got married like it was yesterday....

-mr. bill

CB HI

Chris0516

Tracks for trains/streetcars is not a major problem in the county I live in. In the town I live in, there are a set of NB n' SB tracks. But there is the option of the grade-level crossing, and the humpback bridge.

When I lived in Duluth, Minnesota ten years ago. There were a set of tracks(NB/SB) that ran almost parallel to one road, when they crossed the road. So, It was easy for bike tires to slip into the track.