Camilo

I still dont see the "engineering" failure of these cross walks. There's two sidwalks leading to two ramps that lead to two crosswalks. The ramps are very clearly marked. Neither pedestrians nor cyclists should be entering the street between the two ramps, and therefore the curb is not an unreasonable feature.

Please, what is the problem?

canklecat

The accident is the evidence of the design flaw. Public engineering ideally should minimize the necessity of humans needing to adapt to rigid interfaces.

I've seen my mom and other folks who need power wheelchairs run afoul of these partial ramp/curb abominations. Folks with failing eyesight may not see these transitions before they've gone lumpity-bump sideways across them, or smacked one wheel into the partial curb while trying to get across a street crosswalk as quickly as possible to avoid being struck by impatient drivers.

It's just bad design.

scott967

My casual observation is that kids early on learn to hop the curb on their bmx/freestyle/skateboards. In fact they seem to prefer hopping the curb to seeking out an ADA ramp.I don't have personal experience, as where I grew up there were no sidewalks, just ditches and you learned to avoid them.

scott s.
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Arizona Nights

It's hard to tell from the photo but it looks like the cross road comes in at an obtuse angle. The far curb looks acute. If that's the case then I would assume the the designers of the cut curb were strictly following regulations that dictate a specific size and shape regardless of the actual environment.

Arizona Nights

Wow. Just wow.

canklecat

Photograph it from other angles at other times of day. I'm betting it will better illustrate how difficult it can be to see that partial curb from some perspectives. Be sure to photograph it from a kneeling position too -- this will approximate how a child or person in a wheelchair will see things. The white-on-white curb and surroundings will be very difficult to see at a glance without shadows from a low angle sun.

That's one of the main problems I see with similar curb designs in my area, and it's worse for folks with poor eyesight, particularly folks in wheelchairs who may not see the same visual cues we see as adults from a standing position. Shadows from seams, textures, etc., that provide hints of contrast aren't as apparent from a lower height.

Stadjer

Don't know about this piece of street design, but whether it's good or bad, kids learn by falling. Even if the street design is perfect, there might be something else on the road that could cause a cyclist to fall if he isn't paying attention. They should fall every now and then when their bones are still flexible and their wounds heal quickly.

kickstart

Appears to be a standard ADA compliant configuration of contour, texture, and color to aid the visually impaired.

canklecat

Here's an example of a more sensible design. This is along the Trinity Trails system in Fort Worth, at Winscott Road and Lakeside Drive near Benbrook Lake.

Two crosswalks, perpendicular, crossing Winscott and Lakeside. There's the familiar brick colored traction pad (which I avoid when it's wet). Note there is no superfluous ramped curb between the two paths. It would serve no purpose. That's why the example in the OP's photo is a design flaw. Someone either got lazy and careless, or make a dumb decision to include an unnecessary short snippet of a curb between the ramped walkways.

Here's a screencap from my own video of that corner, taken Friday afternoon during a rain. I chose to ride between the brick colored traction pads because I don't trust the darned things in the rain. Fortunately there's a continuously ramped area between the pads, no superfluous curb.

dedhed

The likely extent of "engineering" was checking high side of walk proposed grade and curb flow line proposed grade for slope and tweaking one or the other if too steep, then drawing a line in each direction for center line of ramp and adding wording such as T-I ramp. The inspector or stakeout crew would add marks on the forms for "0" (curb) face and "Full" face according to standard distances for that type of ramp. The cement finishers would finish the curb head height according to those marks.

It's common practice to have full face between two ramps in different directions to delineate and direct peds in the right direction rather than allowing them to cross where there isn't a marked crosswalk.

In addition for you TX guys there is also the issue of snowplows following the curb line and not riding up an tearing up the walk and indicator plates.

I see no problems with this design for it's location although a bit of paint might have helped the OP's incident for a year or two until it's faded and gone. Bottom line - Watch where you are going.

Camilo

This is the point of the questions and confusion I was writing about - it just looked normal and logical to me. Every cross walk I went past the other day on a short walk was very similar to this one. I don't understand why a cyclist or pedestrians would wnt to leave the sidewalk (so-called MUP/MUT) between two clearly marked crosswalks. Again, I believe, unfortunately, that the young rider just didn't know that the cross walk ramps were there - and what the purpose of the colored indicator pads.

CliffordK

I do think there are several places around here that the people building the roads have laid out designs without considering bicycles as part of the equation... even for building major bike paths.

I've flipped my bike trailer on a curb cut with a MUP taking off from a round-a-bout with some tight maneuvering into the entry way.

We have several places where a 6 or 8 foot wide MUP funnels into a 3' wide curb cut across a street.

And a place where a major bike path ends with a T into a road with poor design to make that corner.

And, one where the curb could at least be better tapered so that entering a road-side bike path doesn't seem like a pinch-point.

I think in many cases these curbs are designed to help direct car traffic, or to force cars over a bump when they cut a corner too tight, or perhaps attempt to drive into the bike path or pedestrian area.

Anyway, send your notes to the city, maybe they'll notice.

Chris0516

That and/or, raised higher. So it is less obscure.

Rollfast

The curb can be painted yellow, but it doesn't say much about it being abrupt. It might be painted red, but that's not obvious to a child nor might diagonal warning stripes.


You could ask to have a pole or something mounted so as to make you stop, many of those aren't all that durable or permanent.


But as another poster did say, the point of this design is to discourage jaywalking/crossing in unsafe areas and sticking to the crosswalks and traffic devices to prevent accidents and the injuries and death that can follow.


Being sloppy crossing at intersections is a big problem, nobody expects you there and they may not be prepared to deal with you.


One device I have seen at intersections where crosswalks are not allowed or have been closed it a large metal pipe in a triangular shape mounted in the cement, usually with a sign saying crosswalk closed. There are two of these at the freeway interchange with interstate 84 here in Ontario, OR.


THAT would probably work. You should encourage your child to also use the crosswalk controls as well and wach the traffic carefully.


The reason for such outlets is indeed because a sloped, extended corner would interfere with traffic that is probably tight and congested. sometimes the curb can be fully extended, other times things like having to fit four lanes and a turn refuge into a formerly two lane street make it very hard...and the city was started in the 1880s and most of it in place by 1960 to 1980.


Now there ARE bike lanes at that interchange and down to the state border crossing bridge, but I wouldn't use them with the kind of traffic we get here and sheer amount of vehicles...it's like a larger metro area traffic load that flows in and out of a two or three mile stretch. Totally insane, and Walmart, minimalls, Home Depot, Motels, restaurants of all kinds, drive-thru coffee, state government offices and even a couple residences next to the river as well as a gas station of two is crammed in there. You have to survive traffic to get to the DIALYSIS CENTER AS WELL...REALLY.

jefnvk

I was walking around a pedestrian area Saturday, and made a note to pay attention to the crosswalks. I saw quite a few like this, I saw quite a few with the middle cut down. At the end of the day, sidewalks aren't designed (in most cases) to handle bike traffic, the curbs are easy enough to deal with on foot.

The only moral to the story is keep your eyes peeled, and remember you are operating a vehicle, and it is your responsibility to operate it in a manner that you can stop safely in the clear, visible space in front of you.