Help an engineering student get important data for road safety!
09-19-16, 06:17 PM
#51
Cycle Year Round
Survey is flawed because it does not account that many of us ride more than one type of bike, ride just as much in the morning as the afternoon, and, speaking for myself, my comfort level really depends on where I am riding. Also, times of sunrise, sunset vary so pinning perception of visibility to a time is meaningless.
Also, forum guidelines require surveys to be posted here: Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Bike Forums
Also, forum guidelines require surveys to be posted here: Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Bike Forums
She is a High School student and does not fit into the 'Manufacturer, Retailer' pigeon hole that forum was intended. A&S is a far more appropriate forum for her poll and research.
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09-19-16, 06:58 PM
#52
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I cannot believe how many nuts have posted their control crap on this thread.
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
09-19-16, 07:07 PM
#53
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I cannot believe how many nuts have posted their control crap on this thread.
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
NEVER ask a group of clients to describe the project parameters.
__________________
FB
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 09-19-16 at 07:13 PM.
09-19-16, 07:27 PM
#54
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I was going to pontificate, but that would seem so redundant I'll just say good luck with your project.
09-19-16, 08:02 PM
#56
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Good luck with your project.
I'm glad someone is taking an interest in cyclists' safety.
For what it's worth, my subjective sense of safety when bike commuting is 98% about the road infrastructure and 2% about what I wear or what kind of lights I have on my bike.
Best - multi use path or other non-motorized venue (I'm fortunate to have a house on a greenway, and a job 12 miles down the same greenway). Not just the safety, but also the green space and peace are good for my mental health.
Better mk I - cycling path that is parallel to but physically separated from automotive traffic (curbs, planters, etc - the Indianapolis Cultural Trail is a good example of this).
Better mk II - rural roads without much traffic and a cultural expectation that animals, tractors, and other non-BMW traffic may be encountered (also see green space above)
Good - slow roads where bikes and cars are together, but the speed limit is low enough that there is not much speed differential between bikes and cars
Marginal - "bike lanes" where I'm protected from a dump truck by 3 inches of reflective paint on the road
Worst - busy roads with curves and > 35mph speed limit, with no shoulders and hills or curves such that the driver can't see the cyclist until they get close. I try to avoid riding on these whenever possible.
I'm glad someone is taking an interest in cyclists' safety.
For what it's worth, my subjective sense of safety when bike commuting is 98% about the road infrastructure and 2% about what I wear or what kind of lights I have on my bike.
Best - multi use path or other non-motorized venue (I'm fortunate to have a house on a greenway, and a job 12 miles down the same greenway). Not just the safety, but also the green space and peace are good for my mental health.
Better mk I - cycling path that is parallel to but physically separated from automotive traffic (curbs, planters, etc - the Indianapolis Cultural Trail is a good example of this).
Better mk II - rural roads without much traffic and a cultural expectation that animals, tractors, and other non-BMW traffic may be encountered (also see green space above)
Good - slow roads where bikes and cars are together, but the speed limit is low enough that there is not much speed differential between bikes and cars
Marginal - "bike lanes" where I'm protected from a dump truck by 3 inches of reflective paint on the road
Worst - busy roads with curves and > 35mph speed limit, with no shoulders and hills or curves such that the driver can't see the cyclist until they get close. I try to avoid riding on these whenever possible.
09-19-16, 08:19 PM
#57
Farmer tan
I cannot believe how many nuts have posted their control crap on this thread.
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
I can't believe the opinionated know-it-alls that give a high school student such a hard time.
09-19-16, 08:55 PM
#58
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Good luck with your project.
I'm glad someone is taking an interest in cyclists' safety.
For what it's worth, my subjective sense of safety when bike commuting is 98% about the road infrastructure and 2% about what I wear or what kind of lights I have on my bike.
Best - multi use path or other non-motorized venue (I'm fortunate to have a house on a greenway, and a job 12 miles down the same greenway). Not just the safety, but also the green space and peace are good for my mental health.
Better mk I - cycling path that is parallel to but physically separated from automotive traffic (curbs, planters, etc - the Indianapolis Cultural Trail is a good example of this).
Better mk II - rural roads without much traffic and a cultural expectation that animals, tractors, and other non-BMW traffic may be encountered (also see green space above)
Good - slow roads where bikes and cars are together, but the speed limit is low enough that there is not much speed differential between bikes and cars
Marginal - "bike lanes" where I'm protected from a dump truck by 3 inches of reflective paint on the road
Worst - busy roads with curves and > 35mph speed limit, with no shoulders and hills or curves such that the driver can't see the cyclist until they get close. I try to avoid riding on these whenever possible.
I'm glad someone is taking an interest in cyclists' safety.
For what it's worth, my subjective sense of safety when bike commuting is 98% about the road infrastructure and 2% about what I wear or what kind of lights I have on my bike.
Best - multi use path or other non-motorized venue (I'm fortunate to have a house on a greenway, and a job 12 miles down the same greenway). Not just the safety, but also the green space and peace are good for my mental health.
Better mk I - cycling path that is parallel to but physically separated from automotive traffic (curbs, planters, etc - the Indianapolis Cultural Trail is a good example of this).
Better mk II - rural roads without much traffic and a cultural expectation that animals, tractors, and other non-BMW traffic may be encountered (also see green space above)
Good - slow roads where bikes and cars are together, but the speed limit is low enough that there is not much speed differential between bikes and cars
Marginal - "bike lanes" where I'm protected from a dump truck by 3 inches of reflective paint on the road
Worst - busy roads with curves and > 35mph speed limit, with no shoulders and hills or curves such that the driver can't see the cyclist until they get close. I try to avoid riding on these whenever possible.
I had 3 inches of paint between me and 80 mph speeders after dark. I'm still here > LOL
09-19-16, 08:59 PM
#59
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As pointed out before you posted, you do not know the end purpose of the poll, so you are not qualified to declare it flawed. An all inclusive poll may not work for her research.
She is a High School student and does not fit into the 'Manufacturer, Retailer' pigeon hole that forum was intended. A&S is a far more appropriate forum for her poll and research.
She is a High School student and does not fit into the 'Manufacturer, Retailer' pigeon hole that forum was intended. A&S is a far more appropriate forum for her poll and research.
I cannot believe how many nuts have posted their control crap on this thread.
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
This is a student with a high school project asking us to answer her simple questions as presented, not to question her, or call her out. It is the first step in deciding whether she has a project, following the guidelines of her high school curriculum.
My daughter is a high school student. I would beat the crap out of any of you people who spoke to her in this manner.
(unless she did it herself - she's well on her way to being a Team USA wrestler)
Is there a psychologist in the house?
I'm finding the exact kind of data I needed in this poll. Despite other things the numbers are what really count, and I'm getting them.
09-19-16, 09:19 PM
#60
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MOD NOTE: Everyone is free to not contribute to threads if they have nothing to contribute ..... know what I mean ??
Good luck with your project.
.
.
Good luck with your project.
.
.
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Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Last edited by Homebrew01; 09-20-16 at 04:40 AM.
09-19-16, 09:24 PM
#61
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I think you need 10 posts for PM.
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09-19-16, 09:29 PM
#62
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But many here allow contact via email through the forum, and there's no restriction on that. If they have an email link, (click on their name) you're free to use it.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
09-19-16, 10:38 PM
#63
Cycle Year Round
^^
I think it is 50 post for PM.
Emily included her e-mail at the end of the poll - she is braver than I in that respect.
I think it is 50 post for PM.
Emily included her e-mail at the end of the poll - she is braver than I in that respect.
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Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
09-19-16, 10:51 PM
#64
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Emily, feet free to put up a junk post and try your luck.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
09-19-16, 11:28 PM
#65
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I do prefer riding in the afternoon. But, I can't specify a single time... in part because I'm often out on the road for much more than an hour a day, with a few stops in my trips. Heading to town and heading back home? Nor can I have a ride that goes only in one direction (other than loops). And, frequently have some riding in the dark.
I suppose I need to critically think a bit more about my visibility on the road, but it is very hard to quantify.
I had a chance to deal with cars and unsafe passing yesterday. I don't think it had anything to do with visibility, but rather unthinking or uncaring drivers. Yeah, they get impatient following bikes putting up the hills at 5 MPH, but they don't seem to realize the bikes coming down the hills in the opposite direction are travelling 30+ MPH, and require as much of the lane as an oncoming car. Or, they don't realize that they don't have to pass the bikes travelling at 30+ MPH on narrow winding roads that should have a speed limit of about 30 MPH for all road users.
But, I also consider personal vigilance and defensive riding as an important part of safety. I'm not perfect, but I do try to pay attention to what is around me. I ride on paths with no vehicle traffic to streets with light traffic to streets with high traffic. Most of the busy roads have good shoulders or bike paths. But, not all. However, even "busy" can be quite subjective. And, I put a lot of miles on the bike and don't get hit by cars.
09-20-16, 04:29 AM
#66
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Honestly some comments on here were making me a little sick to my stomach reading them, which I honestly should've expected. This is the internet after all. So thank you both for your kind words, they made me feel a lot better.
I'm finding the exact kind of data I needed in this poll. Despite other things the numbers are what really count, and I'm getting them.
I'm finding the exact kind of data I needed in this poll. Despite other things the numbers are what really count, and I'm getting them.
Chalk up the drone to the narcissism of the internet.
I'm glad you're getting the data you need - this forum has a very large membership, and the psychos are only a small part of the cross-section, who happen to not be able to control the distance from their "mind" to their fingertips.
Whenever they seem to be ruling, this thread always makes me feel better, finding just how many who have made my Ignore list also end up getting suspended or banned: https://www.bikeforums.net/news-annou...l#post19064149
09-20-16, 05:25 AM
#67
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Like Maelochs, I dislike polls with mandatory questions that have no answer.
I do prefer riding in the afternoon. But, I can't specify a single time... in part because I'm often out on the road for much more than an hour a day, with a few stops in my trips. Heading to town and heading back home? Nor can I have a ride that goes only in one direction (other than loops). And, frequently have some riding in the dark.
I suppose I need to critically think a bit more about my visibility on the road, but it is very hard to quantify.
I had a chance to deal with cars and unsafe passing yesterday. I don't think it had anything to do with visibility, but rather unthinking or uncaring drivers. Yeah, they get impatient following bikes putting up the hills at 5 MPH, but they don't seem to realize the bikes coming down the hills in the opposite direction are travelling 30+ MPH, and require as much of the lane as an oncoming car. Or, they don't realize that they don't have to pass the bikes travelling at 30+ MPH on narrow winding roads that should have a speed limit of about 30 MPH for all road users.
But, I also consider personal vigilance and defensive riding as an important part of safety. I'm not perfect, but I do try to pay attention to what is around me. I ride on paths with no vehicle traffic to streets with light traffic to streets with high traffic. Most of the busy roads have good shoulders or bike paths. But, not all. However, even "busy" can be quite subjective. And, I put a lot of miles on the bike and don't get hit by cars.
I do prefer riding in the afternoon. But, I can't specify a single time... in part because I'm often out on the road for much more than an hour a day, with a few stops in my trips. Heading to town and heading back home? Nor can I have a ride that goes only in one direction (other than loops). And, frequently have some riding in the dark.
I suppose I need to critically think a bit more about my visibility on the road, but it is very hard to quantify.
I had a chance to deal with cars and unsafe passing yesterday. I don't think it had anything to do with visibility, but rather unthinking or uncaring drivers. Yeah, they get impatient following bikes putting up the hills at 5 MPH, but they don't seem to realize the bikes coming down the hills in the opposite direction are travelling 30+ MPH, and require as much of the lane as an oncoming car. Or, they don't realize that they don't have to pass the bikes travelling at 30+ MPH on narrow winding roads that should have a speed limit of about 30 MPH for all road users.
But, I also consider personal vigilance and defensive riding as an important part of safety. I'm not perfect, but I do try to pay attention to what is around me. I ride on paths with no vehicle traffic to streets with light traffic to streets with high traffic. Most of the busy roads have good shoulders or bike paths. But, not all. However, even "busy" can be quite subjective. And, I put a lot of miles on the bike and don't get hit by cars.
09-20-16, 09:09 AM
#68
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In regards to not being qualified to declare a poll flawed if we don't know the purpose of the poll:
Actually, if I take the poll and none of the answers is anything close to what I would answer, and there is no "none of the above" or "other" or "not applicable" then perhaps there is a problem with the poll.
It's possible that we should just not answer the poll since it doesn't apply to us, but that's not clear, and it may be that the person who wrote the poll might be unaware that there is a significant number of people just not taking the poll because of assumptions made when creating it.
Actually, if I take the poll and none of the answers is anything close to what I would answer, and there is no "none of the above" or "other" or "not applicable" then perhaps there is a problem with the poll.
It's possible that we should just not answer the poll since it doesn't apply to us, but that's not clear, and it may be that the person who wrote the poll might be unaware that there is a significant number of people just not taking the poll because of assumptions made when creating it.
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09-20-16, 09:23 AM
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In regards to not being qualified to declare a poll flawed if we don't know the purpose of the poll:
Actually, if I take the poll and none of the answers is anything close to what I would answer, and there is no "none of the above" or "other" or "not applicable" then perhaps there is a problem with the poll.
It's possible that we should just not answer the poll since it doesn't apply to us, but that's not clear, and it may be that the person who wrote the poll might be unaware that there is a significant number of people just not taking the poll because of assumptions made when creating it.
Actually, if I take the poll and none of the answers is anything close to what I would answer, and there is no "none of the above" or "other" or "not applicable" then perhaps there is a problem with the poll.
It's possible that we should just not answer the poll since it doesn't apply to us, but that's not clear, and it may be that the person who wrote the poll might be unaware that there is a significant number of people just not taking the poll because of assumptions made when creating it.
This is only my first poll. My next one I am in the process of making and it will be much more specific. But I cant even post it until I get around 60-70 answers on my poll, and right now I only have 35.
If you don't like the poll? Don't take it. If you don't understand it, please read read through the thread or email me.
09-20-16, 09:35 AM
#70
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For future reference, it's confirmed that the threshold for PM's is 10 posts. I just received a (test) PM from Emily.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
09-20-16, 10:54 AM
#71
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If you get 200 responses, you might think "that's great" - but what if you also knew that 2000 people tried to respond but none of your answers fit their situation?
Suddenly you are not looking at a statistically representative portion of the cycling population - you realize that you are looking at a self-selected 10% of the people and you can use this information to write future polls.
Without that information, you might not even realize that there are a lot of people you're missing.
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Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
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09-20-16, 01:03 PM
#72
Cycle Year Round
09-20-16, 01:40 PM
#73
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Emily, I hope that you get enough responses to post more polls .. I will answer any (well, most) bike-related polls just to be helpful, and in this case more so because it combines education, reality, and cycling ... I like education programs that directly relate the the real world and obviously I like cycling, so ... I will check back occasionally and see if the wording has changed and answer whatever I can honestly. Is it okay if I leave some blank?
09-20-16, 01:59 PM
#74
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One thing I missed in the poll was a way to address seasonal changes in weather and daylight hours, which where I live are considerable. A 6 o'clock ride in June will offer quite different visibility conditions than a 6 o'clock ride in January.
But apart from that, go ahead and ask away.
But apart from that, go ahead and ask away.
09-20-16, 02:01 PM
#75
Senior Member
Proving once more that it takes only the smallest specks of wood to ignite an argument in A&S. Cheers to Emily who at such a tender young age provides proof of the "moroness" of the internet in general and A&S in particular. Best luck and good engineering Emily!