Inpd

Can someone please point me to these multiple studies?

MUPs are not without their problems, but I typically hear of cyclists dying on the roads and my near misses have always been with cars/trucks which aren't on MUPs. Now of course those idiot dog-owners who let their dogs off the leash pose a problem, but a dog isn't going to steam roll me ...

CliffordK

Keep in mind there are both roadside bike paths and MUPS. Very different beasts.

A lot of the safety debate revolves around roadside paths. I still think that in most cases they are safer than riding in traffic. But, there are specific concerns about roadside paths and intersections.

Accident #3 on this chain appears to be a bike path/truck right-turn interaction.
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...ed-deaths.html

That one is a tough situation. Since much of the traffic at that point turns, and bikes may go straight, the street probably should have slowed traffic and sharrows for that last block.

Either that, or independent bike/vehicle traffic signal cycles with a "No Turn On Red"

I think there also has to be more emphasis on side visible turn signals. I can't say if that is the case here, but they would help in many cases.
It depends on the MUP
We also have a wonderful network of riverfront MUPS with miles of trails without road intersections. Of course, there is access, but that is no different from other road crossings, hopefully with most of the locals being aware of the main path entrances.

MUP/MUP intersections appear as if they should be treacherous, but people seem to be able to work it out. Undoubtedly a few scratches and bruises, but I haven't seen them.

Only one local MUP that I ride on has significant numbers of road crossings. Two are traffic light controlled (although the bike lights could be updated a bit). Then there is a section where the MUP runs parallel with a main road, and has several side-road branches with stop/yield control. I usually bail before that section.

I have seen a few MUP accidents posted in the Advocacy&Safety forum, usually due to poor intersection design, and either inexperienced riders, or complacent riders. Yes, cars SHOULD stop, but never count on it.

Here is one. Bike path crossing a 4-lane road, uncontrolled.
https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...-fatality.html

There was another one a while ago that got deleted where a cyclist was lucky that he side-swiped a pickup when he cut across an intersection with a "do-not-walk" crossing light nearby, and a turn lane that had the green light and right-of-way. In that one, the bike path should have been either routed closer to the intersection (shared crosswalk), or routed under the nearby river crossing bridge.

BE CAREFUL

When I was in Jr High, or HS, we had a "bike race" on the local MUP. At that time, I realized it was an absolutely stupid thing to do. Since then I participated in one DRT cargo bike race that used the MUP as part of the ride, and it wasn't nearly as bad. Apparently riders of cargo bikes aren't as crazy as the 14 yr olds... at least the ones I saw.

That used to be one of my favorite sections of MUP. Up and around and weaving through trees. Unfortunately there was a straighter bypass section, and the curvy section got closed to bikes.

As mentioned above, a MUP isn't a Formula-1 race course.

CliffordK

Oh,
Keep in mind that anecdotes are good for studying situations, but aren't the same as a statistical analysis.

FrenchFit 

Look at it like this, your chances of some injury accident is much greater when driving a car but more likely to be fatal if the accident occurs on an airplane. MUPS are to cars as the road is to planes.

We've had many more 'incidents' on MUPS than anywhere else. On nice weekend days, my wife and I choose the road whenever possible.

ItsJustMe

I only recently started riding in an area where there is a MUP. I do use it because in that particular area, the road is truly horrible. But it's not my favorite to ride because of all the intersections. I have to stop (or at least brake) twice as much in the 3 miles I'm on that than I do in the other 22 miles of my commute. Luckily it's not that heavily used, but when I do encounter more than one person together, invariably they are spread out and taking up the entire path.

Dave Cutter

Roads and/or MUPs.... don't cause accidents. As a rule.... accidents are caused by the decisions and actions of people. In this case... the people are often the cyclists themselves. I am sure there are stats bent both ways. But realistically neither are likely very dangerous. The difference between one safe place and another safe place... might be difficult to measure.

I mow my yard on a riding mower. One part is right along the road. Almost always a truck or bus goes by while I am mowing this area.... and it doesn't "feel" comfortable. But I know it's safe. Feelings are good things and I do stay aware of my intuitions... but they're just feelings.

Rollfast

I don't care how prominent the acronym is, it's still so apparently meaning less to my braincells that I have to look it up over and over.


I do know OOLAH is Owner Of A Lonely Heart at least.

CB HI

Poor mr. bill triggered again.

What are bike-care intersections?

What subforum has cyclists that are fare better than you?

rydabent

In the last 8 years since I have retired, I have ridden approx 20,000 miles, mostly on the MUPs in the city. Never have I ever felt I was in danger or at risk.

rydabent

I dont think I would be wrong as to suggest the main group of people that complain about MUPs are the fully kitted racer boy types that think they should be allowed to ride full speed at all times. Their attitude is everyone else should just get the hell out of their way!!!! While in many places I could go faster, I pretty much limit my speed to 15 mph on the local MUPs.

genec

Of course the real irony is that those that tend to complain about MUPs the most are the folks that fail to watch for others and strive to ride at high speeds at all times...

The exact same complaints that cyclists have about motorists... go figure.

bikemig 

+ 1. Plus you're not dealing with car drivers who are busy texting or taking selfies.

AlmostTrick

Some MUPS offer riders/joggers an increased risk of being jacked/robbed or *****, especially if traffic is light, or after dark. It happens. In these cases paths may very well be less safe than the streets.

jorglueke

I chatted with a group of three cyclists on the gateway trail during a break. They mentioned an incident where they were turning left off the trail to the Gasthaus. Another cyclist going fast said "left" when it was already to late. He almost went over his handlebars while the turning cyclist rolled into the grass just missing a post. In the end it was a memorial experience but without any permanent physical consequences, accidents involving cars may be more rare but also more impactful.

dynodonn 

I avoid my local MUPs, since they are inefficient and time consuming to travel on, with pedestrian and cycling traffic being more in an "at ease" mode, making many MUP users even more inattentive of their surroundings, and far more lax of traffic protocol, plus with motor vehicle infrastructure having been long since given more direct and efficient routes.


Many of our local MUPs are also placed over what I call a "bum's trail", with many businesses next to the trail still having extreme fencing still in place to ward off any access from trail traffic, making business commute access impossible, and a large number of these businesses have still yet to embrace any thought of opening an access point due to past experiences.

njkayaker

There's a good chance of it being full of zombie walkers with dogs on retractable leashes making it impossible to actually ride faster than walking.

This is exactly why I asked what people meant by "dangerous".

jon c. 

An MUP near campus here is colloquially known as the '**** trail.'

genec

Oh... like when a cyclist takes the lane and a motorist can't go faster than "biking?"

Yeah, as far as the dangerous aspect, I believe "dangerous" is a really flaky term here... seems like statistically folks are equating skinned knees from falls on the MUP to being killed by an errant motorist out on the street... I donno... I'll take the skinned knee any day.

And again, not just to you, but to everyone reading this... there are vast differences in quality and usefulness of MUPs... some being nothing more than a gravel park walkway really meant for walking, all the way up to well designed bike paths suitable for high speed commuting. So I can see why some folks pan MUPs... they are NOT all the same... but then neither are roads. But to decry MUPs as "dangerous" is pretty silly... like equating a bathtub to a stormy north Atlantic sea... hardly the same thing.

Equinox

Utter bull, as usual. I've seen many MUPs and no matter how they are constructed, they share many of the same characteristics that have already been mentioned. They are boring. they don't go where I want to go. They are usually too short for my type of riding. They are generally very flat (old RR rights of way). When my club includes an MUP on a ride, I bypass it. They are especially ill suited for group rides. In my club, the injuries on the MUP are just as severe as on the road (mostly broken bones). Skinned knees...gimme a break.

howsteepisit

What you have said Equinox, is that MUP do not fit your style of riding, and my be dangerous for your style of riding. Me, while I am not totally enamored with MUPs, I do use them on occasion, and I adjust my riding to be safe on the MUP. In other words, the world does not revolve around you or your riding style.

bulldog1935

I've seen the ambulance and back-board come to MUP crashes.

genec

Quite odd... the MUP I used most often wasn't flat, had a hard climb in fact, was wide enough for a small group (we did lunch rides on it) and went through some nice open country near a freeway. Further, it was designed as a transportation corridor to allow workers to get from one area of the county to another.

Another MUP that I used from time to time went along a strand that connected one chunk of land to another, it too paralleled a freeway... it was flat, but you could count on a headwind in one direction, and the view was quite nice.

Bottom line... your mileage may vary... depending on where you are in the country and how adamant your local cycling group is about the quality of the MUPs.

Really, as far as group rides go... I tend to avoid those anyway (with the exception of small groups... 4-6 folks) as group think tends to lead to things like running lights, and swearing at motorists... Again YMMV.

But either way... "dangerous," uh, no.

genec

I've seen ambulance and backboard come to neighbors' homes... guess I'd better avoid home... you know, the danger and all.

Equinox

You are absolutely correct.

bulldog1935

Less than intelligent extrapolation runs rampant on this forum.

No one anywhere said to avoid greenways and MUP. They have their own kind of danger, so you ride expecting the worst in every transaction.
Ignore list increased by one.