jeichelberg87

Also nearby is the Cardinal Greenway and the Nickle Plate...I like them. Straight and level, nice pavement. Busy though.

American Euchre

I live on the west coast and weather is mild year round.

These trails attract a HUGE homeless population as the paths pass through wooded areas where many homeless camp out. Many are drug addicted and/or have mental health issues. They treat the surrounding areas like their living room. They wander onto the paths without looking where they are going, at all hours of the day or night.

This is in addition to the pedestrians with dogs on 20 foot leashes, children running zig zag around and onto the paths and large families of latinos who walk six abreast across lanes in both directions.

Your best bet is to ride during off peak hours. However the homeless don't look as they're crossing the path on their way back to their homeless encampment after taking a 1 or a 2 in the bushes on the opposite side.

Keep your eyes open out there.

CB HI

You do remember the head on collision in BFs, in texas if I remember correctly.

I came across a dead body on the bike path, but that appeared to be a heart attack.

Washington DC had a couple of cyclist deaths on MUPs from attacks.

CB HI

I can, the Pearl Harbor Bike Path has two 90 degree turns within 10 yards. It use to be a sugar cane railroad and was used in WWII to haul munitions by rail to Pearl Harbor.


Note: the angles of the green line are not accurate, both turn are 90 degrees.
https://www.google.ru/maps/@21.37736...!5m1!1e3?hl=en

dynodonn 

I wouldn't call 15 to 20 mph a "big hurry", but having to travel a mile or better out of my way and be reduced to a walking pace numerous times while traveling on a MUP, is not being very efficient with my physical energy, as well as my time.

keyven

The world is so diverse I can't imagine why there's even arguments that INSIST one way MUST be better than the other. Ugh.

Surely a MUP in a small town cannot be compared to that in a medium sized city. The attitudes are different, the speeds are different, the numbers are different.

It's like everyone lives on the same street and knows exactly what it's like to cycle where everyone else is.

jgadamski

A friend of mines wife was injured while walking on a MUP. Totally the cyclists fault. However, the level of injury compared to a car striking a pedestrian at the same speed is significant... a broken hip ( which is no small injury) compared to probable death had a car hit her. The point I would like to take away is we, as cyclists, need to recognize that these are not 'bike trails' but Multi Use Paths...for all active users. Including dog walkers with extendo leashes and children on scooters. Some folks use them for recreation, some for transportation.. but none of our uses is more noble, nor none of our mode choices. I think we should understand this, but apparently not all of us do.

Rollfast

At my walking pace the turtle would honk and there would be a backed up line of snarling angry snails.

CB HI

Many of those MUPs were built as bike paths.

One of the problems is an 8 foot design width is called on bike paths.

MUP design widths call for 12 feet.

Are you starting to see the problem here.

On the flip side, maybe the same walkers should not complain about cyclist on sidewalks. Fair is fair.

AngeloDolce

Google "Schuylkill River Trail Assaults" and you'll get many results, for robbery, sexual assault and shootings. Parts of the trail may be nice, but you'll never convince everyone the trail is safe at all times or places.

The Schuylkill trail and other trails also have some well known spots with poor visibility, and even trails (including the Chester Valley Trails) supported with transportation funding to serve commuters are built and maintained by Parks and Recreation (i.e. no snow removal, and no lighting means legally closed at dusk).

Conversely, I used to use a path in Kansas that was very nice, good scenery, occasional birds and foxes, few intersections and I never saw anyone else using it.

There may be times when certain MUPs are more pleasant and may be safer than certain roads, but there are also times and places where roads may be safer than nearby paths. With no uniform or enforced standards for MUPs, blanket statements don't work very well.

genec

Amen brother... +1000 points to you for hitting on the real truth.

Anyone that has ridden in a few states in different corners of the country should understand that... throw in a few different countries and yeah, indeed the world is different.

Paul Barnard

Where can I see that on google maps?

mr_bill

Here, I think.

-mr. bill

Paul Barnard

We are blessed to have a network of MUPs in our area along Lake Pontchartrain and along the Mississippi River. Our roads are generally ill suited for bicycling. I can't get on the paths and spin without slowing down for the occasional walker. Big deal. I slow enough to give me time to react in case they do anything unpredictable, and if they don't have buds in their ears, I take occasion to say hello. I do NOT hold the pedestrians in contempt as motorists often hold me in contempt when I ride on the road. Every time I hear of a bicycling fatality or serious crash, I do my best to dig out the details. None of the media reports I have read involved a cyclist using an MUP.

Not all MUPs are created equally. One in this area is a zoo. The loop at Audubon Park. I use it as a connector and oblivious users are the norm. But it's a park, so that's to be expected. People go to parks to unplug. The one at City Park is the same. I use it for a connector as well.

I have a route that I ride early on weekend mornings while most people are still passed out. It involves MUPs that are outstanding. They are fast in most places. It involves MUPs that are slow and congested even at the early hour. Those stretches are short and limited. It involves bike lanes that are good and bike lanes that are so-so. It involves roads that are good and fast and it involves stop and go city traffic.

I am unquestionably at a lower risk of death or serious injury on the MUPs on that route. The uncontrollable variables are pedestrians, skaters and other cyclists. Worst case scenario is appx. 200 pounds traveling at 20 MPH. On the roads, the uncontrollable variables are 3000 pound cars, often with distracted drivers, traveling at up to 45 MPH. We call it the Texas Loop. Here it is.

NOLA Loop in Metairie Terrace, LA, United States | MapMyRide

Bmach

Not all MUPS are built on old rail beds. Some that are have still have areas with tight turns. Chech out the FVRT thru Simsbury Ct. it goes thru the parking lot of the town offices, a tunnel and then the DPW yard then back to the rail bed. Another one is Huntington State Park SC they built it around the trees, lots of turns.

Miele Man

That's the one. The lower section where the boardwalk exits from under the roadway above it and goes back onto the stone dust surface has blind sharp corner. What makes it bad is that many bicyclists build up speed on that boardwalk under the road, exit to the stone dust section and that's right where if you're heading towards the left in the image you have the sharp right hand turn and where people get hit or nearly hit.

The thing is that many MUPs and/or rail-trails do have sections with very bad or even non-existent sight lines. At those areas bicyclists should slow down but far too many bicyclists don't.

Cheers

CB HI

Google maps will show bicycle paths and bike lanes if you request directions and click on the bicycle guy.

italktocats

well i do feel that putting 'random' objects in the middle of the road can def pose a danger to roadusers

its only this year the people over here decided that 3000 people a year hitting a pole placed in the middle of a road is too much (3000 er visits after hitting one)

some road have those cateyes, plastic reflective knobs, which caused many accidents on 2wheelers(also placed in corners) to the point the locals removed them with electric saws and hammers

njkayaker

There are numerous examples of badly-designed bicycle paths.

All those complaints can be dismissed because "cyclists are unobservant".

In fact (and you know this), potholes are fixed for good reason: driving is less safe if you have to look for potholes too.

The other issue is that some of the hazards on MUP's are deliberate: they are intended to force people to ride slower. Which is why MUPs are not really for transportation.

Some of the hazards result by having the path fit in the place available.

njkayaker

It's obvious why that "weird" jog exists.

Part of the problem might be that cyclists riding too fast might be used to not expecting other cyclists ,that is, they are used to it being clear).

Is there an effective way of getting people to slow down that is effective?

Rollfast

Bad road. I think our DOT did this on purpose at the NEWS railroad underpass intersection to discourage zipping around corners.

American Euchre

pedestrians and cyclists need to be segregated. You can't ride your bike on the sidewalk and pedestrians shouldn't be allowed on a bike path.

Ideally, these trails should have dual lanes for those on wheels: cyclists in one lane and all pedestrians in a separate lane. What is the rationale against this? Is it budgetary considerations? The pedestrian section doesn't even have to be paved necessarily.

njkayaker

The alternative, in the case pictured, was to build a tunnel, which would have been too expensive. Instead, they used the overpass.

njkayaker

The choice is, usually, between having a shared paths or no path at all.

With these sorts of arrangements, pedestrians and cyclists don't really stay in their respective lanes.

wphamilton

I've got a similar one here, sharp blind corner before entering the tunnel (under Webb Bridge road, for any locals). There were no ulterior reasons though - it was just the cheapest layout when they rebuilt the overpass and extended the Greenway.

I've been forced off several times at the entrance by cyclists going too fast through the tunnel, riding beside each other, or single cyclists who can't hold the turn. It seems to happen more when it's cold or otherwise unpleasant and there aren't many people out, which is kind of insidious because you'd tend not to expect it.

It's gotten to the point that I ring my bell continuously on the approach, and slow way down in those conditions. Judging just by my own incidents it's a bit more risk than I see on my alternate route on the streets, which is why I have some sympathy for the "risky MUP" point of view.