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Old 11-26-16, 09:00 PM   #26
canklecat
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Having seen some pulsing lights recently, in shops, in nighttime group rides and solo use by other approaching cyclists, I'm leaning more toward them for my own use at night. It's just enough to get attention without being annoying. I'd still use the brighter strobing lights for daytime rides, especially in urban and rural areas.
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Old 11-26-16, 09:10 PM   #27
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OK, so having worn out your welcome elsewhere, you've come here for a fresh audience to wear out.

First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.

But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.

All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
You had me satisfiedat the first sentence. I was just curious to the mindset of others.i mooned investigating
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Old 11-26-16, 09:12 PM   #28
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You had me satisfied at the first sentence. I was just curious as to the mind-set of other cyclists. You answered it well. I done investigating.
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Old 11-26-16, 10:38 PM   #29
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I am only questioning you regarding this to simply suggest that lighting needs for cyclists in different areas, hours, and modes may vary dramatically. One size does not fit all.
There IS only one way/size according to the OP and the Bulldog. Use lights 24/7 like them or else!
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Old 11-27-16, 09:15 AM   #30
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OK, so having worn out your welcome elsewhere, you've come here for a fresh audience to wear out.

First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.

But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.

All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
Well put... use what you need where and when you ride. There really shouldn't be any argument about what a cyclist chooses to use in their environment.

For instance I have a commuter with loads of lighting fore and aft, upright seating and a mirror... for daily rush hour road "sharing." I wear a helmet.

I have a cruiser with no lights or mirrors upon which I never wear a helmet, it tends to stick to quiet residential streets, boardwalks and sidewalks.

I have an offroad bike that has no lights or mirrors, which I never ride without a helmet (I always fall offroad... )
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Old 11-28-16, 11:52 AM   #31
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On my commuting bike I use daytime head and tail lights (dyno system). On my other bikes I sometimes run a rear light, but generally not unless there are unusual weather or traffic issues. I wear high vis clothing and feel that a rear light does not add that much more to visibility. I'm ok with blinking rear lights, but absolutely hate blinking head lights.
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Old 11-28-16, 02:41 PM   #32
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Because while there may be some merit to a really nice flashing taillight, if a motorist can't see the 6 square feet of my back wearing a bright orange or green jersey/coat, I seriously doubt a couple flashing LEDs on a $5 taillight tucked up under my seat is going to make any difference in daylight.
What is the downside? 4 oz of extra weight? Think about a driver on a bright sunny day, the road 1/2 covered under tree shade, you're in the shade, they have dark sunglasses on? Or your are under a bridge or underpass? No downside for me.
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Old 11-28-16, 02:45 PM   #33
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There are only a few types of accidents between a car an a bike, and the only one that is not almost completely avoidable by an experienced cyclist is getting hit from behind by a vehicle travelling in the same direction.
So you have 2 rear blinky lights in that case? I use 3.
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Old 11-28-16, 02:51 PM   #34
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So you have 2 rear blinky lights in that case? I use 3.
I already said that I don't use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. You obviously don't mind annoying people.
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Old 11-28-16, 02:52 PM   #35
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Have you ever ridden behind someone with a blinking red tail light? It's annoying. Have you ever ridden past someone on a bike path with a blinking headlight? That's annoying too. I never use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. I won't ride with people who insist on using lights during the daytime and frequently pass other riders for the sole reason of getting in front of their annoying tail light. I don't use lights at all during the daytime because they are totally unnecessary.
Unnecessary to you. Come ride a mile in my shoes in the Boston, MA city and burbs, the land of the distracted, rude and downright dangerous drivers, everywhere. Most, say (80%) of the riders I see on my commute use them. Bravo. Cars/motorcycles use them in the daytime. Why? Planes , boats, trucks , trains too? Blinky lights on all emergency vehicles as well as construction vehicles. Coincidence? Maybe there might be some science besides annoying? YRMV. PS, up to 10 lights now on my night time commutes
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Old 11-28-16, 03:02 PM   #36
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Have you ever ridden behind someone with a blinking red tail light? It's annoying. Have you ever ridden past someone on a bike path with a blinking headlight? That's annoying too. I never use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. I won't ride with people who insist on using lights during the daytime and frequently pass other riders for the sole reason of getting in front of their annoying tail light. I don't use lights at all during the daytime because they are totally unnecessary.

+1. Not only that, I have seen so many people with blinking lights that are barely visible. They must think they are adding a level of safety, but they aren't.


And did you know that blinking red bike tail lights are illegal in Germany? Wonder if they are illegal in other countries.
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Old 11-28-16, 03:03 PM   #37
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Unnecessary to you. Come ride a mile in my shoes in the Boston, MA city and burbs, the land of the distracted, rude and downright dangerous drivers, everywhere. Most, say (80%) of the riders I see on my commute use them. Bravo. Cars/motorcycles use them in the daytime. Why? Planes , boats, trucks , trains too? Blinky lights on all emergency vehicles as well as construction vehicles. Coincidence? Maybe there might be some science besides annoying? YRMV. PS, up to 10 lights now on my night time commutes
Yes. blinking lights and lights in the daytime are unnecessary to me. That would be true even if I lived in Boston. You go ahead and put all the blinking lights you want on your bike if it makes you feel safer. I don't believe that it actually does.
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Old 11-29-16, 08:27 AM   #38
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Yes. blinking lights and lights in the daytime are unnecessary to me. That would be true even if I lived in Boston. You go ahead and put all the blinking lights you want on your bike if it makes you feel safer. I don't believe that it actually does.
So run steady lights. Do you disable the daytime running lights on your car? My goal is to be be the most annoying, brightest, flashing, strobing, glowing, reflective thing on the road. I want to eliminate from the idiot car drivers' lexicon " I didn't see them" and to hold them accountable for road deaths. Plus I'm thinking of getting a battery operated disco ball for my rear rack from the local party center. Sweet! I'll post pics when done, cheers.
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Old 11-29-16, 08:53 AM   #39
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What is the downside?
I've gotta deal with removing them if I don't want them stolen. In any case, it is not so much the drawback, it is that I simply don't see a benefit. Twilight, dusk, dark, sure, daylight, no.

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Blinky lights on all emergency vehicles as well as construction vehicles. Coincidence?
Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
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Old 11-29-16, 09:53 AM   #40
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I've gotta deal with removing them if I don't want them stolen. In any case, it is not so much the drawback, it is that I simply don't see a benefit. Twilight, dusk, dark, sure, daylight, no.



Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
Quick release takes 10 seconds for two lights. I run good lights. The 2 watt cygolite rear is good for 300 ft. The front 3 lights vary from 350, 500 and 750 lumens. good for 3-400 feet. For me, in mixed conditions, the bikes I see first when I'm driving my car have blinky lights. Do you disable the daytime running lights on your car? Do the motorcycle flicker headlights catch your eye during the daytime? If the benefit is not getting run over by that 1 out of 50 cars not paying attention, seems, for me, a great benefit. YRMV.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:07 AM   #41
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So run steady lights. Do you disable the daytime running lights on your car? My goal is to be be the most annoying, brightest, flashing, strobing, glowing, reflective thing on the road. I want to eliminate from the idiot car drivers' lexicon " I didn't see them" and to hold them accountable for road deaths. Plus I'm thinking of getting a battery operated disco ball for my rear rack from the local party center. Sweet! I'll post pics when done, cheers.
100% agree on this one . I bought Dinotte lighting front(XPL-3) , 1200 lumens , New Quad Red taillight , 800 lumens so the motorist can never use the excuse " I did not see him . You know people will use any excuse to get them off the hook .
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Old 11-29-16, 11:26 AM   #42
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What is the stigma of using lights on your bike?. Is it that uncool to put a light on?
Have never really experienced any overt stigma. Have noticed a few, here and there, who have no lighting. Wouldn't ever go on the bike, myself, without lighting and very visible/reflective clothing ... day or night.

In the few instances I've said something, it's almost always something like: "What sort of lights do you have, on the ride?" If they do, they do; if they don't, they don't.

IMO, every little bit helps improve awareness I'm there. Given the ramifications of failure to notice, I don't see the downside.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:29 AM   #43
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I already said that I don't use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. You obviously don't mind annoying people.
You keep saying that. We get it already. But you are wrong. YOU think blinking lights are annoying. Not everyone else does. That includes a majority of drivers. A blinky says "bike" to them. Nothing more, nothing less. Most appreciate the heads up. YMMV.

If you are doing it right, your blinky will NOT be in a cagers face, blinding and mesmerizing... annoying, him or her as it goes through its elaborate flash pattern. You find blinkies annoying, because when you are tailgaiting someone that runs a Dinotte (made in Europe, go figure) or equivalent retina blaster, you are treated to the full glory at close quarters. No cager should ever be tailing a bicycle as close as one bicycle might trail another! Worse than annoying, dangerous, when one of those super blinkies wipes out your forward vision.

But, seriously, how often does that happen? I live in about the most cyclist dense part of the country there is, and quite a bit of the time I am the only bike rolling for quite a ways. It's not a big deal! There are more cagers running 4,000 lumen HID low beams that are tolerated amazingly well. Are you chagrined enough to consider a different line of argument? I've got more if you aren't.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:54 AM   #44
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I... frequently pass other riders for the sole reason of getting in front of their annoying tail light.
I frequently pass other riders just to get in front of them with my "annoying" tail light.

-mr. bill

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Old 11-29-16, 12:17 PM   #45
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You keep saying that. We get it already. But you are wrong...
How can I possibly be wrong about what I think is annoying? That doesn't even make sense.

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...Are you chagrined enough to consider a different line of argument? I've got more if you aren't.
Is your argument that blinking lights aren't annoying or that you don't mind annoying other people? If it's the second one I agree with you.
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Old 11-29-16, 12:38 PM   #46
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I already said that I don't use blinking lights because I think they are annoying.

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You keep saying that. We get it already. But you are wrong. YOU think blinking lights are annoying.
Seems like a little reading comprehension would go a loooong way in this argument.....
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Old 11-29-16, 01:11 PM   #47
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I learned a long time ago when riding motorcycles that keeping your lights on in the daytime changes the way car drivers behave around you--because they see you better.
I dunno... there are plenty of times, riding motorcycles with always-on headlights, where cars have not "seen" me...

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On my commuting bike I use daytime head and tail lights (dyno system). On my other bikes I sometimes run a rear light, but generally not unless there are unusual weather or traffic issues. I wear high vis clothing and feel that a rear light does not add that much more to visibility. I'm ok with blinking rear lights, but absolutely hate blinking head lights.
Pretty much this is where I'm at, right down to the dynamo hub lighting system. And there are days when I don't wear hi-viz clothing. I have one bike, my commuter, that has built-in lighting and I leave the lights on all the time. Why not? Drag is minimal... Tail light is German, so non-blinking, steady-on.

On my other bikes, where mounted lights are needed, I usually don't bother with a daytime running light. Not running a blinking tail light in the daytime does not seem to have made any difference, over years of riding.

In common with the motorcycle comment above, I do wonder if the light-scape -- day or night time -- reaches some peak saturation where lighting doesn't add much to visibility, when mixed in with all the other lights around.

Regarding motorcycle lights, for example, my belief is that a single headlight is not "seen" because it does not offer the same quantity of information dual headlights on a car give viewers -- both initial distance and speed can be determined via stereo vision and mental interpretation. A single point of light offers much less information, to the point that it may be discounted, or not "seen," during the decision-making mental process of another road user.
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Old 11-29-16, 02:20 PM   #48
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How can I possibly be wrong about what I think is annoying? That doesn't even make sense.


Is your argument that blinking lights aren't annoying or that you don't mind annoying other people? If it's the second one I agree with you.
Why do you not stop at, "blinking lights are annoying to me", and go out of your way to project an incorrect assertion that "people who use blinkers must not care about annoying other people". I don't know about Germany, in America, blinking taillights (and headlights) are too ubiquitous to be annoying anymore. They are simply an is. If you read automotive discussion forums you will discover that what upsets cagers is not the blinkies, its the cyclists who do NOT use blinkies! That the lights can also be steady and not blink is well below the radar of the average driver, unless they also own a bicycle. Like you, probably. Stop projecting. It could save your life one day. Maybe not, but... I have to observe... the DOT keeps a lot of motorists alive, who would otherwise be long dead because they have ingrained, incorrect notions of things like headlight usage, seat-belt usage, tire wear/size/manufacture... people are stupid... the masses of people are stupid, and lack even the most basic concepts of physics or physiology. Even if you think headlights are unnecessary, or should be limited to 500 lumens, the DOT steps in and mandates standards that are then enforced by State jurisdictions. Cyclists are exempt from a lot of oversight. They are on their own to act out whatever infantile or incorrect assumptions they acquire. The injury and fatality metrics speak for themselves.
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Old 11-29-16, 02:41 PM   #49
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Though I use a bright color jersey on daylight rides, I still don't think it is enough and I can do more.

A jersey to a driver traveling at 50 mph can easily be mistaken for a sign or stable object. 15 mph is sometimes not fast enough to traffic to capture a driver's attention.

Throw in a good rear red strobe light and there is no mistaking that!

When possible I use two rear blinkies. Keep them charged and on strobe, can't be missed even in daylight.

I have seen some shotty red blinkies though and can understand why some riders think they might not help. Don't depend on crappy $5 lights. Spend $25 bucks and stay alive.
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Old 11-29-16, 03:16 PM   #50
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A jersey to a driver traveling at 50 mph can easily be mistaken for a sign or stable object. 15 mph is sometimes not fast enough to traffic to capture a driver's attention.
To a car @50mph, a cyclist traveling at 15mph is a stable object! Seriously. Not that I understand why it matters, there is no way for a cyclist to interact safely with >30 mph motor traffic except from the relative safety of a bike lane, striped off shoulder, or FRAP posture. In all three of those scenarios it is not the worst thing if a driver does not accurately judge relative speed, because neither of you are on collision paths. I will admit that I go out at night without a blinky many times for one reason or another, but come back alive, mainly because I am aware in those situations that no one can see me, (well they can, but..) so I make myself as safe as I can by scrupulously avoiding exposure situations. Drivers avoid bike lanes even if they don't see any bikes in them. It is a defacto fog line as far as they are concerned. This works day or night to keep an unlit cyclist safer than one that is IN the vehicle lane albeit with a flasher going. One is assumed, the other is completely unexpected. Be predictable, and you don't have to wear hi-viz AND use quality blinkers, either should be just fine. $5 might be a little extreme, but $9.99 should get someone a decent taillight, $14.99 will get you the (be seen) Ascent Commuter Headlight/Taillight combo pack. All you need. The taillight is especially nifty because it clips into the seatpost clamp with a sideways motion. Vertical hits from ruts or debris don't knock it loose.
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