Bike lights
#26
Me duelen las nalgas
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Having seen some pulsing lights recently, in shops, in nighttime group rides and solo use by other approaching cyclists, I'm leaning more toward them for my own use at night. It's just enough to get attention without being annoying. I'd still use the brighter strobing lights for daytime rides, especially in urban and rural areas.
#27
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OK, so having worn out your welcome elsewhere, you've come here for a fresh audience to wear out.
First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.
But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.
All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.
But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.
All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
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You had me satisfied at the first sentence. I was just curious as to the mind-set of other cyclists. You answered it well. I done investigating.
#29
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There IS only one way/size according to the OP and the Bulldog. Use lights 24/7 like them or else!
#30
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OK, so having worn out your welcome elsewhere, you've come here for a fresh audience to wear out.
First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.
But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.
All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
First of all, nobody owes you an answer for their personal decisions. However if pressed, they might simply say they don't see the case for using a light in daytime.
But, I'm sure that that won't satisfy you, just as helmet zealots can't understand why someone would go bare. Then there's mirrors, fenders, video recorders, and so on.
All sorts of things offer incremental improvement in safety, and each has fans and zealots, but that doesn't mean everyone has to be a fan.
For instance I have a commuter with loads of lighting fore and aft, upright seating and a mirror... for daily rush hour road "sharing." I wear a helmet.
I have a cruiser with no lights or mirrors upon which I never wear a helmet, it tends to stick to quiet residential streets, boardwalks and sidewalks.
I have an offroad bike that has no lights or mirrors, which I never ride without a helmet (I always fall offroad... )
#31
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On my commuting bike I use daytime head and tail lights (dyno system). On my other bikes I sometimes run a rear light, but generally not unless there are unusual weather or traffic issues. I wear high vis clothing and feel that a rear light does not add that much more to visibility. I'm ok with blinking rear lights, but absolutely hate blinking head lights.
#32
Senior Member
Because while there may be some merit to a really nice flashing taillight, if a motorist can't see the 6 square feet of my back wearing a bright orange or green jersey/coat, I seriously doubt a couple flashing LEDs on a $5 taillight tucked up under my seat is going to make any difference in daylight.
#33
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So you have 2 rear blinky lights in that case? I use 3.
#34
Jedi Master
#35
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Have you ever ridden behind someone with a blinking red tail light? It's annoying. Have you ever ridden past someone on a bike path with a blinking headlight? That's annoying too. I never use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. I won't ride with people who insist on using lights during the daytime and frequently pass other riders for the sole reason of getting in front of their annoying tail light. I don't use lights at all during the daytime because they are totally unnecessary.
#36
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Have you ever ridden behind someone with a blinking red tail light? It's annoying. Have you ever ridden past someone on a bike path with a blinking headlight? That's annoying too. I never use blinking lights because I think they are annoying. I won't ride with people who insist on using lights during the daytime and frequently pass other riders for the sole reason of getting in front of their annoying tail light. I don't use lights at all during the daytime because they are totally unnecessary.
+1. Not only that, I have seen so many people with blinking lights that are barely visible. They must think they are adding a level of safety, but they aren't.
And did you know that blinking red bike tail lights are illegal in Germany? Wonder if they are illegal in other countries.
#37
Jedi Master
Unnecessary to you. Come ride a mile in my shoes in the Boston, MA city and burbs, the land of the distracted, rude and downright dangerous drivers, everywhere. Most, say (80%) of the riders I see on my commute use them. Bravo. Cars/motorcycles use them in the daytime. Why? Planes , boats, trucks , trains too? Blinky lights on all emergency vehicles as well as construction vehicles. Coincidence? Maybe there might be some science besides annoying? YRMV. PS, up to 10 lights now on my night time commutes
#38
Senior Member
So run steady lights. Do you disable the daytime running lights on your car? My goal is to be be the most annoying, brightest, flashing, strobing, glowing, reflective thing on the road. I want to eliminate from the idiot car drivers' lexicon " I didn't see them" and to hold them accountable for road deaths. Plus I'm thinking of getting a battery operated disco ball for my rear rack from the local party center. Sweet! I'll post pics when done, cheers.
#39
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I've gotta deal with removing them if I don't want them stolen. In any case, it is not so much the drawback, it is that I simply don't see a benefit. Twilight, dusk, dark, sure, daylight, no.
Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
#40
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I've gotta deal with removing them if I don't want them stolen. In any case, it is not so much the drawback, it is that I simply don't see a benefit. Twilight, dusk, dark, sure, daylight, no.
Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
Nope, false equivalency, if you think a $5 LED has remotely close to the visibility of the light bar on the top of a police car, especially in bright daytime.
#41
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So run steady lights. Do you disable the daytime running lights on your car? My goal is to be be the most annoying, brightest, flashing, strobing, glowing, reflective thing on the road. I want to eliminate from the idiot car drivers' lexicon " I didn't see them" and to hold them accountable for road deaths. Plus I'm thinking of getting a battery operated disco ball for my rear rack from the local party center. Sweet! I'll post pics when done, cheers.
#42
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In the few instances I've said something, it's almost always something like: "What sort of lights do you have, on the ride?" If they do, they do; if they don't, they don't.
IMO, every little bit helps improve awareness I'm there. Given the ramifications of failure to notice, I don't see the downside.
#43
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If you are doing it right, your blinky will NOT be in a cagers face, blinding and mesmerizing... annoying, him or her as it goes through its elaborate flash pattern. You find blinkies annoying, because when you are tailgaiting someone that runs a Dinotte (made in Europe, go figure) or equivalent retina blaster, you are treated to the full glory at close quarters. No cager should ever be tailing a bicycle as close as one bicycle might trail another! Worse than annoying, dangerous, when one of those super blinkies wipes out your forward vision.
But, seriously, how often does that happen? I live in about the most cyclist dense part of the country there is, and quite a bit of the time I am the only bike rolling for quite a ways. It's not a big deal! There are more cagers running 4,000 lumen HID low beams that are tolerated amazingly well. Are you chagrined enough to consider a different line of argument? I've got more if you aren't.
#45
Jedi Master
How can I possibly be wrong about what I think is annoying? That doesn't even make sense.
Is your argument that blinking lights aren't annoying or that you don't mind annoying other people? If it's the second one I agree with you.
Is your argument that blinking lights aren't annoying or that you don't mind annoying other people? If it's the second one I agree with you.
#46
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Seems like a little reading comprehension would go a loooong way in this argument.....
#47
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On my commuting bike I use daytime head and tail lights (dyno system). On my other bikes I sometimes run a rear light, but generally not unless there are unusual weather or traffic issues. I wear high vis clothing and feel that a rear light does not add that much more to visibility. I'm ok with blinking rear lights, but absolutely hate blinking head lights.
On my other bikes, where mounted lights are needed, I usually don't bother with a daytime running light. Not running a blinking tail light in the daytime does not seem to have made any difference, over years of riding.
In common with the motorcycle comment above, I do wonder if the light-scape -- day or night time -- reaches some peak saturation where lighting doesn't add much to visibility, when mixed in with all the other lights around.
Regarding motorcycle lights, for example, my belief is that a single headlight is not "seen" because it does not offer the same quantity of information dual headlights on a car give viewers -- both initial distance and speed can be determined via stereo vision and mental interpretation. A single point of light offers much less information, to the point that it may be discounted, or not "seen," during the decision-making mental process of another road user.
#48
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Why do you not stop at, "blinking lights are annoying to me", and go out of your way to project an incorrect assertion that "people who use blinkers must not care about annoying other people". I don't know about Germany, in America, blinking taillights (and headlights) are too ubiquitous to be annoying anymore. They are simply an is. If you read automotive discussion forums you will discover that what upsets cagers is not the blinkies, its the cyclists who do NOT use blinkies! That the lights can also be steady and not blink is well below the radar of the average driver, unless they also own a bicycle. Like you, probably. Stop projecting. It could save your life one day. Maybe not, but... I have to observe... the DOT keeps a lot of motorists alive, who would otherwise be long dead because they have ingrained, incorrect notions of things like headlight usage, seat-belt usage, tire wear/size/manufacture... people are stupid... the masses of people are stupid, and lack even the most basic concepts of physics or physiology. Even if you think headlights are unnecessary, or should be limited to 500 lumens, the DOT steps in and mandates standards that are then enforced by State jurisdictions. Cyclists are exempt from a lot of oversight. They are on their own to act out whatever infantile or incorrect assumptions they acquire. The injury and fatality metrics speak for themselves.
#49
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Though I use a bright color jersey on daylight rides, I still don't think it is enough and I can do more.
A jersey to a driver traveling at 50 mph can easily be mistaken for a sign or stable object. 15 mph is sometimes not fast enough to traffic to capture a driver's attention.
Throw in a good rear red strobe light and there is no mistaking that!
When possible I use two rear blinkies. Keep them charged and on strobe, can't be missed even in daylight.
I have seen some shotty red blinkies though and can understand why some riders think they might not help. Don't depend on crappy $5 lights. Spend $25 bucks and stay alive.
A jersey to a driver traveling at 50 mph can easily be mistaken for a sign or stable object. 15 mph is sometimes not fast enough to traffic to capture a driver's attention.
Throw in a good rear red strobe light and there is no mistaking that!
When possible I use two rear blinkies. Keep them charged and on strobe, can't be missed even in daylight.
I have seen some shotty red blinkies though and can understand why some riders think they might not help. Don't depend on crappy $5 lights. Spend $25 bucks and stay alive.
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