Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Earphones: yea or nay? (There's no electoral college here.)
I wear earphones while riding, at least sometimes 37 33.94%
I've tried them, won't do it again 13 11.93%
Haven't tried them, might 10 9.17%
Have never tried them, never will 49 44.95%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-19-16, 11:03 AM   #51
ItsJustMe
Seņior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
Posts: 13,488
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 269 Post(s)
I see someone is referring to the 13 year old article on The Onion:

"I have an iPod - IN MY MIND!"

I Have An iPod?'In My Mind' - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 11:38 AM   #52
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Except for one thing... that internal jukebox shuts down very quickly when triggered by outside events... And tends to only work when things are quite and peaceful... unlike recorded music sources.
Sure, that's what smug High on Life/Songs in My Head types would say - I'm not distracted, I'm just dialed into life.

Instant shutdown
and only used in quiet and peaceful scenarios? Yeah sure! Get real!
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 11:45 AM   #53
bikecrate
Senior Member
 
bikecrate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: LF, APMAT
Bikes:
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 152 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What do you do when you pass cyclists whom you think are not aware of your "announcements" due to the presence of earbuds, failure to acknowledge your announcement, or however else you expect other cyclists to respond to your "announcements"?

Why not do the same without the announcements?
This is a pointless discussion. I can feel annoyed with anyone or anything I care too. This includes cyclist/pedestrians/skaters who wear headphones and, because some of them also behave unpredictably, I have a hard time communicating my intentions since they can't hear.
bikecrate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 12:03 PM   #54
1989Pre
Standard Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Brunswick, Maine
Bikes: 1963 F. H. Grubb Super Routier, 1989 Raleigh Technium road bike (all components upgraded), 2001 Raleigh M80 (all components upgraded)
Posts: 1,914
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Except for one thing... that internal jukebox shuts down very quickly when triggered by outside events... And tends to only work when things are quite and peaceful... unlike recorded music sources.

I think one of the major differences is that when listening to "external" music (or narrative), other, ambient sounds are blocked to varying degrees. When tunes are remembered and rehearsed, these sounds are not blocked. Do you understand this distinction, I-Li?

Last edited by 1989Pre; 12-19-16 at 12:08 PM.
1989Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 12:08 PM   #55
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
This is a pointless discussion. I can feel annoyed with anyone or anything I care too. This includes cyclist/pedestrians/skaters who wear headphones and, because some of them also behave unpredictably, I have a hard time communicating my intentions since they can't hear.
I might get annoyed when cycling or walking if someone directed what I view as pointless, unwelcome and unnecessary "communications" at me. I wouldn't care if passing or not; if someone wants to pass just do it and without the drama.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 12:13 PM   #56
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
I think one of the major differences is that when listening to "external" music (or narrative), other, ambient sounds are blocked to varying degrees. When tunes are remembered and rehearsed, these sounds are not blocked. Do you understand this distinction, I-Li?
Sure, if you and genec say so, it must be so. Ambient sounds (i.e. traffic noise) with all its cryptic safety messages comes through loud and clear, despite all those rehearsed tunes floating about in your heads and off your lips.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:00 PM   #57
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 25,185
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1741 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Sure, that's what smug High on Life/Songs in My Head types would say - I'm not distracted, I'm just dialed into life.

Instant shutdown
and only used in quiet and peaceful scenarios? Yeah sure! Get real!
OK it's an ongoing dialog with God and it comes in Text format, and I have to read it out loud or lightening strikes me...
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:00 PM   #58
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 12,663
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2360 Post(s)
This thread has not disappointed.
indyfabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:30 PM   #59
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Bikes: Garage full of bikes
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Why are other cyclists obligated to hear your "announcements" about your passing maneuvers? Why not just pass with an appropriate clearance? Do you also make "announcements" about all your passing maneuvers while driving an automobile?
Driving and riding are different environments. I can't speak for where you ride, but here's the way it is in places where I ride. I ride on MUP's with pedestrians. I have seen pedestrians, their kids and dogs do some remarkably oblivious crap. When I first started riding these MUPs several years back I thought like you did. Two things changed my mind. The paths here run atop the levees. Most pedestrians walk with the flow of bikes. One day I was coming up on a pedestrian who was wearing headphones. Thinking like you do, I set up to pass with the maximum available clearance. Without looking over his shoulder, he did a 180 and swung all the way over to the side of the path I was set up on. I was able to brake and swerve to avoid slamming into him. Had I arrived perhaps a second or two earlier there would have been an accident. I saw something similar happen with another rider, but that time there was a nasty collision. After that I started announcing my approach. Some used the information to reel their kids and dogs in. Some used it to move from triple file to single file. I even go so far as to exchange verbal pleasantries with some of them. Some are budded up an remain oblivious. While in your world hearing is not and cannot possibly be used as a safety tool, in other peoples world it can.
Paul Barnard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:37 PM   #60
Ajkollme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hartford, CT
Bikes: SuperSix, Nature Boy, Mattioli R1, Burley Tandem
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
One day I was coming up on a pedestrian who was wearing headphones. Thinking like you do, I set up to pass with the maximum available clearance. Without looking over his shoulder, he did a 180 and swung all the way over to the side of the path I was set up on. I was able to brake and swerve to avoid slamming into him. Had I arrived perhaps a second or two earlier there would have been an accident. I saw something similar happen with another rider, but that time there was a nasty collision.


The issue here is not that the pedestrians couldn't hear, but that they didn't turn their head 90 degrees to check for anyone passing them before they changed direction. This same course of events could have happened without headphones. They are completely incidental to your story.
Ajkollme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:45 PM   #61
Ajkollme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hartford, CT
Bikes: SuperSix, Nature Boy, Mattioli R1, Burley Tandem
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
The flaw in the "I would never wear headphones because they are unsafe" crowd's logic is that you assume you will be able to hear an approaching vehicle and react in a manner that will avoid an accident, whereas if you did not hear the vehicle you would be hit. Maybe you all ride in rural areas, but where I ride there is a steady stream of cars moving in both directions, and cars that are traveling too closely sound exactly the same as cars giving a wide berth. Therefore, the only different sound made by an imminent accident is screeching tires.


If you think you will be able to save yourself when you hear screeching tires behind you, you overestimate your abilities.
Ajkollme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:49 PM   #62
kevindsingleton 
Don't make me sing!
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Western PA
Bikes: 2013 Specialized Crosstrail Elite, 1986 Centurion Elite RS, Diamondback hardtail MTB, '70s Fuji Special Road Racer, 2012 Raleigh Revenio 2.0, 1992 Trek 1000
Posts: 730
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Driving and riding are different environments. I can't speak for where you ride, but here's the way it is in places where I ride. I ride on MUP's with pedestrians. I have seen pedestrians, their kids and dogs do some remarkably oblivious crap. When I first started riding these MUPs several years back I thought like you did. Two things changed my mind. The paths here run atop the levees. Most pedestrians walk with the flow of bikes. One day I was coming up on a pedestrian who was wearing headphones. Thinking like you do, I set up to pass with the maximum available clearance. Without looking over his shoulder, he did a 180 and swung all the way over to the side of the path I was set up on. I was able to brake and swerve to avoid slamming into him. Had I arrived perhaps a second or two earlier there would have been an accident. I saw something similar happen with another rider, but that time there was a nasty collision. After that I started announcing my approach. Some used the information to reel their kids and dogs in. Some used it to move from triple file to single file. I even go so far as to exchange verbal pleasantries with some of them. Some are budded up an remain oblivious. While in your world hearing is not and cannot possibly be used as a safety tool, in other peoples world it can.
What would you say that could have prevented such a random, haphazard maneuver, though? "Don't swerve wildly to the other side of the path in the opposite direction?" The walker was probably through with the course change by the time you could get it out. Maybe we should use lasers on the handlebars so we can attract their attention from behind, visually? Then, we can wear our headphones, they can wear their headphones, we don't have to say anything to them, and they still realize that someone is approaching from behind, perhaps with a pist*l? That should get their attention!

I wear ear buds, and listen to music, or audio books, whenever I feel like doing so, whether on the road, on the MUP, or on single track. I pay attention, and use mirrors and lights and reflective stuff, to minimize risk, but, at the end of the day, we've all gotta die of something, right?
kevindsingleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:51 PM   #63
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Bikes: Garage full of bikes
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajkollme View Post
The issue here is not that the pedestrians couldn't hear, but that they didn't turn their head 90 degrees to check for anyone passing them before they changed direction. This same course of events could have happened without headphones. They are completely incidental to your story.
The headphones are not incidental to the lesson. The lesson being that a pedestrians ability to hear me announcing my approach can enhance safety.
Paul Barnard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:53 PM   #64
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Bikes: Garage full of bikes
Posts: 2,305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindsingleton View Post
What would you say that could have prevented such a random, haphazard maneuver, though? "Don't swerve wildly to the other side of the path in the opposite direction?" The walker was probably through with the course change by the time you could get it out. Maybe we should use lasers on the handlebars so we can attract their attention from behind, visually? Then, we can wear our headphones, they can wear their headphones, we don't have to say anything to them, and they still realize that someone is approaching from behind, perhaps with a pist*l? That should get their attention!

I wear ear buds, and listen to music, or audio books, whenever I feel like doing so, whether on the road, on the MUP, or on single track. I pay attention, and use mirrors and lights and reflective stuff, to minimize risk, but, at the end of the day, we've all gotta die of something, right?
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to convey. I gave examples of how my ability to communicate with pedestrians enhanced safety.
Paul Barnard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 01:54 PM   #65
Ajkollme
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Hartford, CT
Bikes: SuperSix, Nature Boy, Mattioli R1, Burley Tandem
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
The headphones are not incidental to the lesson. The lesson being that a pedestrians ability to hear me announcing my approach can enhance safety.


But in the examples you provided, no warning was given.


Additionally, hearing is not a sense that is required for safety. All that is required is that somebody visually check their surroundings before changing directions.
Ajkollme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 02:14 PM   #66
kevindsingleton 
Don't make me sing!
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Western PA
Bikes: 2013 Specialized Crosstrail Elite, 1986 Centurion Elite RS, Diamondback hardtail MTB, '70s Fuji Special Road Racer, 2012 Raleigh Revenio 2.0, 1992 Trek 1000
Posts: 730
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to convey. I gave examples of how my ability to communicate with pedestrians enhanced safety.
I was responding to the example you gave in which your ability to communicate with pedestrians did not enhance safety:

"One day I was coming up on a pedestrian who was wearing headphones. Thinking like you do, I set up to pass with the maximum available clearance. Without looking over his shoulder, he did a 180 and swung all the way over to the side of the path I was set up on."
kevindsingleton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 02:22 PM   #67
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 25,185
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1741 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajkollme View Post
The flaw in the "I would never wear headphones because they are unsafe" crowd's logic is that you assume you will be able to hear an approaching vehicle and react in a manner that will avoid an accident, whereas if you did not hear the vehicle you would be hit. Maybe you all ride in rural areas, but where I ride there is a steady stream of cars moving in both directions, and cars that are traveling too closely sound exactly the same as cars giving a wide berth. Therefore, the only different sound made by an imminent accident is screeching tires.


If you think you will be able to save yourself when you hear screeching tires behind you, you overestimate your abilities.
There is a certain point there that makes sense... wearing headphones might make one react less to the honks, the verbal chatter and other "snap" noises that can startle a rider.

I do agree that hearing the screech is probably too late, but I often found that I could somewhat hear the "heartbeat" of regular traffic and notice when that changed for some odd reason. A sight challenged cyclist and I discussed that a few times. He limited himself to quieter streets, due to his poor eyesight, but he noted that he could hear and "feel" traffic and that he depended on that like others depended on seeing everything.
genec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 02:38 PM   #68
ZmanKC
Senior Member
 
ZmanKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Overland Park, KS
Bikes: 1999 Giant TCR 2T 2009 Giant Cypress DX 2015 Giant Anyroad 1
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Earbud(s), not earphones.
ZmanKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 02:55 PM   #69
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 12,663
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2360 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZmanKC View Post
Earbud(s), not earphones.

Same thing per the OP's definition in the OP.
indyfabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 03:03 PM   #70
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
You understand incorrectly.

There are plenty of truly horrible wired headphones. There are also plenty of really good bluetooth headphones.

For the application we are talking about (listening to content while riding a bicycle) - the last three feet shouldn't be the issue anymore.

-mr. bill
Which all leaves room for the best of the wired headphones to be better than the best of the bluetooth headphones.

You really go out of your way to find the littlest thing to argue with some of us about and you seem to pick the same targets over and over again for your slights.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 03:16 PM   #71
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
This is a pointless discussion. I can feel annoyed with anyone or anything I care too. This includes cyclist/pedestrians/skaters who wear headphones and, because some of them also behave unpredictably, I have a hard time communicating my intentions since they can't hear.
OH MY you are annoyed at me. I really do not care if you are annoyed. I already saw you coming, know how far back you are, know how fast you are riding and can see if you are going to pass me close or not.

Too often the people without the headphones are the ones that go all erratic when someones intentions are announced and heard.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 03:19 PM   #72
Mr. 66
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Bikes:
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
I don't just not a good idea distracting in my opinion. Its also against the law.
Mr. 66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 03:58 PM   #73
jeichelberg87
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: LaPorte, IN
Bikes: 2013 Raleigh Revenio 2015 Giant AnyRoad (stolen)2016 Giant Escape 1
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 279 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Why are other cyclists obligated to hear your "announcements" about your passing maneuvers? Why not just pass with an appropriate clearance? Do you also make "announcements" about all your passing maneuvers while driving an automobile?
Yes. It is called a "turn signal."

Since the idea is to communicate one's intent to others around them in an efficient manner, turn signals have been found to be efficient in communicating the intent to others...
jeichelberg87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 04:00 PM   #74
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
I don't just not a good idea distracting in my opinion. Its also against the law.
Are you PWI?

Posting while intoxicated.

PS1 - If English is your second language, then be more careful with what comes out of the translator.
PS2 - But searching your prior post, I see you are in Seattle, so PWI is more likely.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

Last edited by CB HI; 12-19-16 at 04:12 PM.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-16, 04:05 PM   #75
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,783
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 698 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeichelberg87 View Post
Yes. It is called a "turn signal."

Since the idea is to communicate one's intent to others around them in an efficient manner, turn signals have been found to be efficient in communicating the intent to others...
Efficient in communicating the intent to traffic behind to change lanes or left/right turns. Not very effective for signalling passing and actually confusing leaving your turn signal on while passing.

Why not use hand signals for your passing if you claim such signal are so efficient for passing?
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:39 PM.