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Old 12-21-16, 09:01 PM   #26
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If Tesla is solidly behind it you know it's all hype...
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Old 12-21-16, 10:07 PM   #27
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If Tesla is solidly behind it you know it's all hype...
There are lots of 'next-gen' 'futuristic' vehicles, but I don't think I'd consider Tesla vaporware.
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Old 12-22-16, 12:22 AM   #28
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How so, when things get tough, the helmsman always take manual control on Star Trek.
The human, exactly. Like those trains in England, no one would ride on them until they sat a human in the front with a hand on the kill switch. But a car on a freeway needs more than a kill switch, it needs someone totally there to take control if the computer fails or the car gets overloaded by say an accident event. I just can't see them being accepted by the driving public.
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Old 12-22-16, 12:28 AM   #29
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Kerfluffle over, for now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/technology/san-francisco-california-uber-driverless-car-.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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Old 12-22-16, 12:41 AM   #30
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I thought Uber used other peoples cars? I guess they have scrounged a little investment capital
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Old 12-22-16, 01:13 AM   #31
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I'd agree that it's in the future, but I don't think full implementation will come any time soon.
Define soon. I think a lot of you are going to be surprised. Very surprised, at how quickly the New World Order is going to arrive. The only thing holding back "full implementation" is regulatory bodies, and they are going to cave under the weight of Billions of dollars worth of persuasion.

There is no way a human can react fast enough to save an automated car in trouble. Google knows that and that is why their cars will not have conventional controls in them. They are worse than useless. The automated cars operating in PA and CA do NOT NEED the human drivers that are placed in them to satisfy regulators. They reassured only the ignorant.

I am not saying an automated vehicle isn't capable of getting into an accident. Of course they can. I am saying that if an accident develops it is unlikely that a human operator would make much difference to the outcome. I don't think crude even begins to describe how far state of the art automated driving systems are from what they might become in another 10 or 20 years, but it is clear that Google et al don't intend to wait that long to start recouping their investments in the technology.

I suspect that, as crude, as they might be, current automated platforms are at least twice as good as the average human driver! Yes, they are better than human drivers, right now. Warts and all. And they will only get better.
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Old 12-22-16, 01:28 AM   #32
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+1

The only reason the self driving Urber car hasn't gotten into more accidents is because there's been a driver behind the wheel ALL the time! Urber is trying desperately trying to get them on the road with a driver because the next step would be to eliminate the human entirely one day.

I wonder who would be responsible once the first cyclist is killed? Who goes to prison if the vehicle plows through a mass of people?
The only reason the self driving Uber car hasn't gotten into more accidents is because they are that good. Student operator cars have dual controls but there aren't many situations where the instructor has to take over because they don't let you get into situations that require that they save things in the first place! An American "road test" is a JOKE. Mostly humans bumble through driving operations because they are pretty intuitive. A lot of engineering goes into making us safe on highways. If you could see the average curve on a freeway you realize that ENORMOUS amounts of America are given over to making curves so gentle that an 85th percentile driver can feel safe at 80mph. Like an entire MILE just to make one lousy 90 degree corner.

Who is responsible now if a driver kills you? Certainly not the driver! Seriously, you ask this in A&S where every week another thread is started about x driver facing no criminal charges even after killing a cyclist and known to be texting at the time of the accident! Who goes to prison now if a driver loses control of their vehicle and plows into a mass of people? Cite one instance where a driver has been sentenced to prison for an
accident.
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Old 12-22-16, 01:51 AM   #33
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There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in America alone that can be eliminated. These jobs are, typically, jobs that pay enough to support families . . . that puts a target on them.
Humans are and always will be cheaper than machines. At least up until the point when machines start making themselves. Still, most of us can only think in terms of hourly wages. A human truck driver needs sleep every 72 hours. The automated truck does not. The automated truck is not cheaper than a human with a CDL but it can outperform zir. The obsession is actually with productivity, and not with gross labor cost.
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Old 12-22-16, 04:13 AM   #34
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The human, exactly. Like those trains in England, no one would ride on them until they sat a human in the front with a hand on the kill switch. But a car on a freeway needs more than a kill switch, it needs someone totally there to take control if the computer fails or the car gets overloaded by say an accident event. I just can't see them being accepted by the driving public.
So why the crap talk about Star Trek?
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Old 12-22-16, 04:41 AM   #35
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So why the crap talk about Star Trek?
It's not "crap", it's just over your head. Most people believe technology will save them from the diminishing returns of technology because all their lives they have watched starships warp across the galaxy in a hundred shapes and sizes, as well as all the Spielberg SF. People have come to believe that, "they", will always find a solution, and we will forever climb the staircase of greater wonders. It's just basic psychology, people believe because they see it on TV, over and over.

The trouble is it aint gonna happen, like there are no more manned US space vehicles, and no manned mars landings, and no mass uptake of electric cars, either driverless or not. The Tesla and the nissan leaf are great innovations but the average person can't afford one, and those that can are slowly realizing they would be better off with a conventional engine vehicle anyway because of the charging issues and the huge cost of battery replacement.

Yes I know
Batteries will get cheaper,
Charging stations will spring up like mushrooms after the rain,
fusion engines are only a decade or so away. I've heard it all before "yawn"
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Old 12-22-16, 04:47 AM   #36
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It's not "crap", it's just over your head. Most people believe technology will save them from the diminishing returns of technology because all their lives they have watched starships warp across the galaxy in a hundred shapes and sizes, as well as all the Spielberg SF. People have come to believe that, "they", will always find a solution, and we will forever climb the staircase of greater wonders. It's just basic psychology, people believe because they see it on TV, over and over.

The trouble is it aint gonna happen, like there are no more manned US space vehicles, and no manned mars landings, and no mass uptake of electric cars, either driverless or not. The Tesla and the nissan leaf are great innovations but the average person can't afford one, and those that can are slowly realizing they would be better off with a conventional engine vehicle anyway because of the charging issues and the huge cost of battery replacement.

Yes I know
Batteries will get cheaper,
Charging stations will spring up like mushrooms after the rain,
fusion engines are only a decade or so away. I've heard it all before "yawn"
Seems it is over your head, since our knowledge and technology has continually advanced. Your just hung up that it has not advanced as fast as predicted. So it really is your personal problems you need to deal with rather than blame it all on a TV shows/Movies.
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Old 12-22-16, 05:03 AM   #37
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The fascination, as it were, is driven by the desire to eliminate jobs. Self driving personal owned vehicles are of secondary importance; but are essential to getting people to accept self driving commercial vehicles.

There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in America alone that can be eliminated. These jobs are, typically, jobs that pay enough to support families . . . that puts a target on them.

+1


Companies that contract workers for short terms and then lay them off are doing a similar thing and making it more difficult for a person to support themselves let alone a family.
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Old 12-22-16, 07:35 AM   #38
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So many believing Uber's fake response to an actual video catching them.

Much like Hillary telling people they should not read the e-mails because they were hacked vice saying the e-mails are false.
Catching them do what... run a light... with a driver in the vehicle... Show me reliable evidence that the human was not driving at the time.
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Old 12-22-16, 07:45 AM   #39
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Show me reliable evidence that the human was not driving at the time.
You don't get what post-fact facts are. Internut says it happened. That's all the evidence needed.

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Old 12-22-16, 07:49 AM   #40
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You don't get what post-fact facts are. Internut says it happened. That's all the evidence needed.

-mr. bill
The sky is falling.

There, now that's on the interwebz.
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Old 12-22-16, 02:14 PM   #41
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Catching them do what... run a light... with a driver in the vehicle... Show me reliable evidence that the human was not driving at the time.
Show me real evidence that he was.

Uber put the vehicle on the street for testing. If they are on the street for testing, why would the human be driving it?
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Old 12-22-16, 02:24 PM   #42
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Only here can there be a two-day argument with no facts, only conclusions based on people's biases.
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Old 12-22-16, 02:27 PM   #43
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"I would rather have an 18-wheeler behind me. Instead of an Uber car. 18-wheelers have human drivers." They do for now but one of the recent reports was about self-driving semi trucks with trailer. There is no question that trucking companies would like this since there is no mandated rest period for a computer while there is for a human driver. They don't get sick and don't take vacations.

"Humans are and always will be cheaper than machines."
If that were true, we would still have the same number of American auto workers as we had two decades ago. The number of units produced is way up but employment is not. Here's a slightly out of date report on the industry. US Auto Industry Is Back But Jobs Are Not. The change is due to robots doing many of the jobs once done by humans. Ditto for employment in coal mining where strip mining has replaced underground mining and the steel industry where automation is the only way to make a plant economically viable. No matter what the politicians say, a lot of these jobs are never coming back. They were some of the best paying jobs in America that didn't require a college education.
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Old 12-22-16, 06:24 PM   #44
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And the self-driving trucks would be delivering BEER.


Think about that.


As for bike lanes, when it snows its hard enough finding a clear SIDEWALK. Then the snowplows and tractors leave huge piles here and there and the bike lanes are not usually cleared well or at all because a) too close to parked cars and b) not much bike traffic.


Frankly, I don't fully trust not having control of the car sometimes...I couldn't fall asleep in a car (and I passed out driving a road near my own place nearly 25 years ago and drove into an empty canal by a field) so...


I also wouldn't have a semi behind me, if the driver in my case was playing a game with me and kept accelerating as I was passing and then went to change lanes and see about goosing me into the highway median. If I hadn't had a bit of extra horsepower I'd be rolling in the grass too.


Things happen.
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Old 12-22-16, 06:26 PM   #45
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I thought Uber used other peoples cars? I guess they have scrounged a little investment capital

They're in the hole pretty good anyway.
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Old 12-22-16, 07:11 PM   #47
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And the self-driving trucks would be delivering BEER.....
Which brings up an important question.

Does the open container law apply to self-driving cars?

Seriously, there are serious legal issues that need to be worked out regarding responsibility for accidents with self driving cars.

It's hard to blame the driver, who in good faith is relying on the car, so, are the makers supposed to take on this potential liability?

I don't expect answers here, but I hope that people are giving this some thought and we can have some legal clarity before, rather than trying to sort it out after.
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Old 12-22-16, 11:04 PM   #48
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...Seriously, there are serious legal issues that need to be worked out regarding responsibility for accidents with self driving cars.

It's hard to blame the driver, who in good faith is relying on the car, so, are the makers supposed to take on this potential liability?

I don't expect answers here, but I hope that people are giving this some thought and we can have some legal clarity before, rather than trying to sort it out after.
Volvo says it will own the liability when its self-driving cars hit the road (or other things on the road).

Volvo will accept all liability when its cars are in autonomous mode | Fortune.com
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Old 12-23-16, 12:06 AM   #49
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Most of those are drunk/drugged drivers or someone knowingly putting a vehicle with safety defects like bad brakes or bald tires on the road. Only one of them involved anything else, and that was a failure to set the parking brake on a bus. (Jail time for that one actually surprises me, but I agree with it.) Drunk drivers are about the only roadway killers that do prison time, which is why we have so many hit-and-run deaths while the drunks go sober up.

Generally speaking, a sober motorist who stays on the scene after killing someone will only receive a citation, often even when the killer doesn't even have a valid license to drive. Just this past week, we had a local repeat drunk driver kill his passenger and be sentenced to probation, so even being drunk isn't a guarantee of jail time.
No prison for veteran with PTSD found guilty in DUII death of friend | Local | Eugene, Oregon
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Old 12-23-16, 12:31 AM   #50
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They're in the hole pretty good anyway.
Most of the hotshot companies end up in holes, look at all the solar thermal plants, even with massive government help they are rolling over. Funny thing is people never seem to learn, as soon as the next wiz-bang IPO comes along they are all in for the ride. A person would be better off buying stock in stock.
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