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Old 02-13-17, 10:00 AM   #176
Feldman
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I will suggest that if these robo-cars are unleashed into the world with programming that targets vulnerable road users, then the disabling of them by any means necessary is absolutely legitimate self defense.
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Old 02-13-17, 10:15 AM   #177
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I will suggest that if these robo-cars are unleashed into the world with programming that targets vulnerable road users, then the disabling of them by any means necessary is absolutely legitimate self defense.
Where did anyone say that any programming targeted any road users?
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Old 03-26-17, 12:11 AM   #178
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uber suspends self-driving vehicle program after accident

https://www.wsj.com/articles/uber-su...ent-1490468860
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Old 03-26-17, 01:11 AM   #179
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You've linked an article that is behind a pay wall. What's up with that?
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Old 03-26-17, 02:27 AM   #180
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The story is that one of Uber's autonomous Volvos got in a wreck in Tempe, Arizona involving two other vehicles and ended up on it's side. Uber has terminated the self-driving program.

Tempe Police: Self-driving Uber vehicle involved in rollover - ABC15 Arizona

As you can read there are no injuries reported but I guess Uber has enough troubles right now and they suspended the program.


And it was because another driver failed to yield.


Can't control everything.
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Old 03-26-17, 02:39 AM   #181
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Has there yet been a situation involving a true robot driven car where a collision with another vehicle was NOT the fault of the other driver?

I know that there are relatively few true robot cars out there; but it seems at this point that human drivers are usually the ones at fault in those collisions that have occurred.
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Old 03-26-17, 08:17 AM   #182
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so its kinda like regular cars, ha ha ha
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Old 03-26-17, 08:21 AM   #183
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I didn't start a thread on it. But, In another thread. I had pretty much said how(regardless of a bike lane, or not), I don't trust those cars. I would rather have an 18-wheeler behind me. Instead of an Uber car. 18-wheelers have human drivers.
for the same reason, i rather NOT have the human behind me, humans tend to **** up everywhere at any time for no reason
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Old 03-26-17, 10:53 AM   #184
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for the same reason, i rather NOT have the human behind me, humans tend to **** up everywhere at any time for no reason
But not all of them at the same time. Robots may seem like would be 'better behaved'. To robots, 'the road is their oyster'. Bike lanes and/or cyclists' don't exist, electronically.
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Old 03-26-17, 11:42 AM   #185
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it's important to remember the few semi autonomous vehicles that are on the road at this time are simply experimental vehicles, and the technology is still far from ready.
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Old 03-26-17, 12:56 PM   #186
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We can all agree that drivers and be thoughtless, distracted and sometimes, plain stupid. It takes another human to deal with these failings. Robots are just not up to the task.
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Old 03-26-17, 01:00 PM   #187
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it's important to remember the few semi autonomous vehicles that are on the road at this time are simply experimental vehicles, and the technology is still far from ready.

Unless nobody drives or all the cars are on slots like a GM Futurama display there is little hope for a low accident rate. It's a populist thing, being in control.
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Old 03-26-17, 03:15 PM   #188
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We can all agree that drivers and be thoughtless, distracted and sometimes, plain stupid. It takes another human to deal with these failings. Robots are just not up to the task.
Well heck, if all it takes is another human... just why do we have 35000 human deaths a year... and rising?
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Old 03-26-17, 05:10 PM   #189
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people like control yes, but there is something they like more: being lazy people like to shift, but many are fine with an automatic, things need time and progress. but if we need more order on the roads for current robots to work, doesnt putting more robots on the road make it more orderly?
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Old 03-26-17, 11:26 PM   #190
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You've linked an article that is behind a pay wall. What's up with that?
First time I used the link, the wall had a close button on it - did not require login or pay.
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Old 03-27-17, 05:42 AM   #191
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When it comes to Uber self driving cars, if they hit and cause major injury, a huge law suit against the company would rid the streets of that nonsense. No matter how wonderful the sensors and software is, it can NEVER cover all the situations encountered in traffic.
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Old 03-27-17, 08:27 AM   #192
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When it comes to Uber self driving cars, if they hit and cause major injury, a huge law suit against the company would rid the streets of that nonsense. No matter how wonderful the sensors and software is, it can NEVER cover all the situations encountered in traffic.

I believe a more realistic question might be can the auto driving algorithms do a better job then human drivers. No doubt the self drivers will never be perfect, but at some time they may be more effective than human drivers. Maybe some day there will be self moderating forum software that will rid the internet of nonsense like the above statement?
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Old 03-27-17, 09:29 AM   #193
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On the national news today 3/27, another Uber car crashed, and they are withdrawing all self driving cars. Good move.
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Old 03-27-17, 10:22 PM   #194
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On the national news today 3/27, another Uber car crashed, and they are withdrawing all self driving cars. Good move.
But back on the road today:
Uber's self-driving cars back on the road after Friday crash in Tempe
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Old 03-28-17, 09:23 AM   #195
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Talk about not ready for prime time: Issues with pedestrians and cyclists, THE vulnerable road users. If they're putting these things on the road like this, the company should lose its charter. And this is coming from a huge supporter of autonomous cars.

At this point, if someone is harmed by one of Uber's cars, it should be considered premeditated and the corporate executives should be prosecuted for their reckless disregard of human life.
You realize that the Uber cars that are in develop have two people in them responsible for operating them, including a driver in the driver's seat to take any necessary corrective action.

Autonomous cars are still a work in progress.
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Old 03-28-17, 09:26 AM   #196
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

While self driving cars and trucks may make sense in the highly refined world of out interstate highway system, city streets, an non-limited access highways have a staggering amount of variables.

Of course, in an effort to reassure a skeptical public, they tell us that human drivers will be at the wheel and can take over control if the automatic system fails in any way. However, as the FAA has noted, even highly trained pilots rapidly become over reliant on technology (their phrase), and either don't recognize when to step in, or what to do in a complex cascade of failures.

Let's be real, how can we expect an untrained person, who's half asleep because he trusts the automatic system, to magically recognize a lapse, and instantly assess the problem and take appropriate corrective action?

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
40,000 Highway fatalities a year.

Autonomous cars have the potential in the not too distant future to be dramatically safer than that.

You raise a valid point that relying on a driver standing by to correct mistakes is likely unworkable.

So the self driving systems have to get to the point that they are more reliable than humans, and do not rely on human intervention.

Which shouldn't be too difficult, given how bad drivers are.
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Old 03-28-17, 09:28 AM   #197
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Actually, we don't really disagree. Of course things change over time, and I may change my mind later, when we reach a point that self driving matures.

But as I said, I''m a fan of the technology, and expect that it can bring lots to the table and can lead to improved safety long before it assumes the captains chair.

Smart collision avoidance technologies already exist and are becoming standard in cars. Some on the cusp include sensors that will prevent dooring by scanning the line behind the car and preventing a driver from opening if there's something (a cyclist) coming up that alley. Likewise, passive blind spot monitoring for large trucks is already working, and could be moved into the field just about as fast as mechanics can install the units.

So, I believe that we shouldn't wait for self driving, but focus on co-pilot crash avoidance systems, which can be put on the market immediately, without needing to wait for future refinements.
You've hit the nail on the head. It is ridiculous to let the computer drive the auto, train or airplane and expect the human to attentively sit there paying absolute attention while not actually doing anything and expecting him to jump in when the computer fails to react appropriately.

Either the people that make the software need to take responsibility or the human driver is responsible. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 03-28-17, 09:31 AM   #198
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On the national news today 3/27, another Uber car crashed, and they are withdrawing all self driving cars. Good move.
Apparently Uber didn't steal enough tech from Google.

The Google cars are being programmed to deal with cyclists and peds and do it pretty well. (except when being screwed with by cyclists doing track stands.)


Google self-driving cars get confused by 'hipster bicycles' - Business Insider
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Old 03-28-17, 09:33 AM   #199
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When it comes to Uber self driving cars, if they hit and cause major injury, a huge law suit against the company would rid the streets of that nonsense. No matter how wonderful the sensors and software is, it can NEVER cover all the situations encountered in traffic.
They don't have to be perfect, just better.

Currently, Car crashes in the US kill about 40,000 people a year. (it had dropped in the low 30's but is rising again)
cause $1 trillion dollars in economic losses, and two and half million injuries.

Those numbers are highly likely to continue to increase with more texting and distracted driving.

Now assume for the sake of argument that say 5-10 years from now, changing to autonomous cars can reduce those numbers by 90%, you'd still have 4,000 people a year dying, but wouldn't that be dramatically better than 40,000?

As a matter of public acceptance, they will likely need to be even more reliable than that. But if a few hundred people a year die from autonomous car accidents, it would be a dramatic improvement, and a worthwhile trade off.
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Old 03-28-17, 09:38 AM   #200
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Apparently Uber didn't steal enough tech from Google.

The Google cars are being programmed to deal with cyclists and peds and do it pretty well. (except when being screwed with by cyclists doing track stands.)


Google self-driving cars get confused by 'hipster bicycles' - Business Insider
This why we need AI for the car to learn to identify hipsters.

People are very good at analyzing a new situation and adapting accordingly.

Computers not so much. They work by applying a rule to a set of data, so when they come on a new situation not covered by a rule, they have a problem.

This is why, however, as AI advances, and the cars become better at "learning", and more data is obtained from driving billions of miles, autonomous cars will get better and better.
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