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Old 12-20-16, 01:58 PM   #1
njkayaker
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Uber admits its self-driving cars have trouble with bike lanes

I'm somewhat surprised no one has posted this already.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/20/...th-bike-lanes/

(Remember, don't rely on the headline!)
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Old 12-20-16, 06:19 PM   #2
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Talk about not ready for prime time: Issues with pedestrians and cyclists, THE vulnerable road users. If they're putting these things on the road like this, the company should lose its charter. And this is coming from a huge supporter of autonomous cars.

At this point, if someone is harmed by one of Uber's cars, it should be considered premeditated and the corporate executives should be prosecuted for their reckless disregard of human life.
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Old 12-20-16, 07:40 PM   #3
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

While self driving cars and trucks may make sense in the highly refined world of out interstate highway system, city streets, an non-limited access highways have a staggering amount of variables.

Of course, in an effort to reassure a skeptical public, they tell us that human drivers will be at the wheel and can take over control if the automatic system fails in any way. However, as the FAA has noted, even highly trained pilots rapidly become over reliant on technology (their phrase), and either don't recognize when to step in, or what to do in a complex cascade of failures.

Let's be real, how can we expect an untrained person, who's half asleep because he trusts the automatic system, to magically recognize a lapse, and instantly assess the problem and take appropriate corrective action?

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
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Old 12-20-16, 08:11 PM   #4
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I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. However, that's just not what's going down. Sure, roadway environments are complex. In fact, they are demonstrably too complex for human drivers to safely operate on. While our current iterations of autonomous vehicles aren't ready to safely take over, it seems clear to me, but perhaps not to everyone, that in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels. (My state has seen a 50% increase in roadway deaths since 2013 with little sign of abating, so I'm a little biased here.)
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Old 12-20-16, 08:20 PM   #5
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....in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels.
I'd agree that it's in the future, but I don't think full implementation will come any time soon.
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Old 12-20-16, 08:31 PM   #6
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If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. .....
Actually, we don't really disagree. Of course things change over time, and I may change my mind later, when we reach a point that self driving matures.

But as I said, I''m a fan of the technology, and expect that it can bring lots to the table and can lead to improved safety long before it assumes the captains chair.

Smart collision avoidance technologies already exist and are becoming standard in cars. Some on the cusp include sensors that will prevent dooring by scanning the line behind the car and preventing a driver from opening if there's something (a cyclist) coming up that alley. Likewise, passive blind spot monitoring for large trucks is already working, and could be moved into the field just about as fast as mechanics can install the units.

So, I believe that we shouldn't wait for self driving, but focus on co-pilot crash avoidance systems, which can be put on the market immediately, without needing to wait for future refinements.
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Old 12-20-16, 08:35 PM   #7
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

....

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
Read me first.

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Old 12-21-16, 02:09 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I'm somewhat surprised no one has posted this already.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/20/...th-bike-lanes/

(Remember, don't rely on the headline!)
I didn't start a thread on it. But, In another thread. I had pretty much said how(regardless of a bike lane, or not), I don't trust those cars. I would rather have an 18-wheeler behind me. Instead of an Uber car. 18-wheelers have human drivers.
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Old 12-21-16, 05:54 AM   #9
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I'd agree that it's in the future, but I don't think full implementation will come any time soon.
+1

The only reason the self driving Urber car hasn't gotten into more accidents is because there's been a driver behind the wheel ALL the time! Urber is trying desperately trying to get them on the road with a driver because the next step would be to eliminate the human entirely one day.

I wonder who would be responsible once the first cyclist is killed? Who goes to prison if the vehicle plows through a mass of people?
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Old 12-21-16, 05:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

While self driving cars and trucks may make sense in the highly refined world of out interstate highway system, city streets, an non-limited access highways have a staggering amount of variables.

Of course, in an effort to reassure a skeptical public, they tell us that human drivers will be at the wheel and can take over control if the automatic system fails in any way. However, as the FAA has noted, even highly trained pilots rapidly become over reliant on technology (their phrase), and either don't recognize when to step in, or what to do in a complex cascade of failures.

Let's be real, how can we expect an untrained person, who's half asleep because he trusts the automatic system, to magically recognize a lapse, and instantly assess the problem and take appropriate corrective action?

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
I don't think it will be long before fully autonomous cars are safer on average than human driven cars. It's not a very high bar.
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Old 12-21-16, 06:23 AM   #11
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Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
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Old 12-21-16, 07:18 AM   #12
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Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
Video of an UBER DRIVER running a red light in front of SFMOMA isn't surprising.

-mr. bill
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Old 12-21-16, 08:08 AM   #13
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Read me first.

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Then read this
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Old 12-21-16, 08:12 AM   #14
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Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
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Old 12-21-16, 08:21 AM   #15
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars.
The fascination, as it were, is driven by the desire to eliminate jobs. Self driving personal owned vehicles are of secondary importance; but are essential to getting people to accept self driving commercial vehicles.

There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in America alone that can be eliminated. These jobs are, typically, jobs that pay enough to support families . . . that puts a target on them.
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Old 12-21-16, 10:14 AM   #16
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.
I'd like to automate two opposite situations; cruising straight down the interstate and sitting in stop and go traffic. I enjoy driving a lot, but just holding a straight line on cruise control or shuffling up a car length every thirty seconds isn't really what I call driving.
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Old 12-21-16, 10:32 AM   #17
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I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.
I actually enjoy driving cars, too. That said, I can't wait for self-driving cars. I commute a bit over an hour each way, I could do much better things with that time if my car drove for me.

Not to mentions, the sheer number of wreck that cause mass congestion would be lightened, traffic flow works more efficiently when all the cars communicate with each other and do things like all taking off from a green light at the same time, roadways can smartly allocate routes because they know where everyone is going, etc.
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Old 12-21-16, 12:20 PM   #18
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If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. However, that's just not what's going down. Sure, roadway environments are complex. In fact, they are demonstrably too complex for human drivers to safely operate on. While our current iterations of autonomous vehicles aren't ready to safely take over, it seems clear to me, but perhaps not to everyone, that in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels. (My state has seen a 50% increase in roadway deaths since 2013 with little sign of abating, so I'm a little biased here.)
EVERYONE is looking at their phone and not paying attention. Since 2013? Coincidence with the rise of phone use in cars? I think not.

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Old 12-21-16, 01:59 PM   #19
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Each day, 100 vehicle occupants and 10 pedestrian/bicyclists die on average.

I don't fool myself to believe self-driving car will reduce the number by much.

Machine is good at doing repetitive things.
It is not good at solving new problems that is not in its programming.

Driving is one of those things that cannot be just handed over to the machines.

Instead of spending so much money on research...I rather society spend it on better public transportation and better bicycle and pedestrian paths. Our trains and bus system are pathetic compared to the rest of the world. Most of our bike paths are as dangerous as sharing lanes with cars.

And there're many, many people who are against autonomous vehicle.
Most Americans like to drive. We are a culture of DIY'er. We want to be in control of the steering. We are not a culture that easily give up our rights.

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Old 12-21-16, 02:59 PM   #20
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A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets? Never take off. It's just another gimmick to attract investment capital so some IT boffins can dive Maserati's. Some people have watched too many episodes of star trek I'm afraid.
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Old 12-21-16, 04:38 PM   #21
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A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets?
Nah; just give me the option on open rural interstate. For most of the distance, it could even be mostly mechanical; think of a guide rail like the "driving" rides at amusement parks, with some other form of guidance for the gaps needed to allow entry/exit. OBD monitors for mechanical issues and refuses to engage the self-drive (for use of the rail equipped priority lane) if a serious problem exists that might prevent continued safe operation for the next segment. (Thus preventing the problem of a stopped car on the rail.) Where exits are 1-4 miles apart, there's just not much "driving" to be done.

In traffic jams, lane holding and keeping a set distance from the car ahead isn't exactly rocket surgery. Remote transmitters could even set up an orderly automated migration to the clear lanes when some are blocked ahead. When the jam starts to clear, you could have an audible alert, letting the driver know to take over again, or else the car pulls over and stops rather than continuing to self-drive in the dense-but-accelerating traffic right past a jam.
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Old 12-21-16, 05:06 PM   #22
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One thing that the USA needs is a 100% accurate MAP.

Build a new street, and update the master map.

Add bike lanes, update the master map.

Restrict travel (size, weight, etc), update the map.

There have been videos posted of ambiguous bike lanes with cars driving in them with a person behind the wheel. If it is all mapped out, then it should actually be easier for a computer to tell where lanes are than for a human.

Unfortunately, all the maps seem to have serious shortcomings. Rather than the government that is building and painting the streets updating the maps, it seems more up to people driving them to discover new roads.
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Old 12-21-16, 07:08 PM   #23
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See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
Please point me to reliable information that disputes what seems to have happened.
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Old 12-21-16, 07:11 PM   #24
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Video of an UBER DRIVER running a red light in front of SFMOMA isn't surprising.

-mr. bill
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
So many believing Uber's fake response to an actual video catching them.

Much like Hillary telling people they should not read the e-mails because they were hacked vice saying the e-mails are false.
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Old 12-21-16, 07:18 PM   #25
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A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets? Never take off. It's just another gimmick to attract investment capital so some IT boffins can dive Maserati's. Some people have watched too many episodes of star trek I'm afraid.
How so, when things get tough, the helmsman always take manual control on Star Trek.
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