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Old 01-01-17, 03:13 PM   #51
CB HI
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Speaking of optical illusion, you might want to think of parallax and moving cameras.

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I see you took the cats out for new photos. Speaking of optical illusion, you may want to check out the lane strip to the left of the car in your two photos.





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Old 01-01-17, 03:20 PM   #52
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Simple question for CB HI, did the wheel rotate backwards?
(Hint, the answer is either "yes," or "no.")

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Old 01-01-17, 03:21 PM   #53
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So I guess you proved that the cyclist moved back 1 inch at the moment the motorist moved forward 1 foot, thus proving your wrong about the cyclist hitting the car.
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Old 01-01-17, 03:24 PM   #54
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Simple question for mr. bill, who was really at fault for the collision?

(Hint: 1 inch of movement vs 1 foot of movement)
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Old 01-01-17, 03:28 PM   #55
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Simple question for CB HI, did the wheel rotate backwards?
(Hint, the answer is either "yes," or "no.")

-mr. bill
Simple question for mr bill... did the car move forward at the same time... and by how much? And why oh why does the motorist have to be that close to ANY vehicle while stopped?

Further, if the light was "blinding" the motorist at all, why didn't said motorist just back off, so as to not be bothered by the light?

Yeah, overall, this whole affair is rather tedious... the cyclist with three cameras... just to catch such minutia... but again... WHY DOES THE MOTORIST HAVE TO BE CLOSE if said light bothered them?
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Old 01-01-17, 03:34 PM   #56
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Yeah, overall, this whole affair is rather tedious... the cyclist with three cameras... just to catch such minutia... but again... WHY DOES THE MOTORIST HAVE TO BE CLOSE if said light bothered them?
So when a similar motorist tacos the cyclist wheel and then, like mr. bill, claims it is the cyclist fault, the motorist insurance is still forced to buy a new wheel.

Cyclist have recovered more insurance than the small cost of a camera or two, compared to a new bicycle or medical bills.

The cost of cameras is a small price to end unfaithful claims from motorist and their insurance agents.
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Old 01-01-17, 03:36 PM   #57
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Oncoming driver??? We are discussing the distance between a vehicle and the following vehicle... where at least, at a minimum, the 2 second rule should be used...
I was discussing how poorly aimed or overly bright lights made it difficult for other road users to judge things.

Poorly used lights can be even worse than no lights at all.
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Old 01-01-17, 03:36 PM   #58
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Did the table move?




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Old 01-01-17, 03:43 PM   #59
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Did the table move?

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I see the questions were too hard for mr. bill.
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Old 01-01-17, 04:36 PM   #60
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I was discussing how poorly aimed or overly bright lights made it difficult for other road users to judge things.

Poorly used lights can be even worse than no lights at all.
Like motorists were never taught how to properly deal with bright lights in their eyes?
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Old 01-01-17, 04:47 PM   #61
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I was discussing how poorly aimed or overly bright lights made it difficult for other road users to judge things.

Poorly used lights can be even worse than no lights at all.
Sure, oncoming... but in the case of following, as in this situation, the solution is incredibly simple... back off... which is NOT what the motorist chose to do.
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Old 01-01-17, 04:50 PM   #62
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So when a similar motorist tacos the cyclist wheel and then, like mr. bill, claims it is the cyclist fault, the motorist insurance is still forced to buy a new wheel.

Cyclist have recovered more insurance than the small cost of a camera or two, compared to a new bicycle or medical bills.

The cost of cameras is a small price to end unfaithful claims from motorist and their insurance agents.
Oh I get the point, just too bad that some feel the need to go to such extremes to deal with the motoring public.
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Old 01-01-17, 04:54 PM   #63
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Sure, oncoming... but in the case of following, as in this situation, the solution is incredibly simple... back off... which is NOT what the motorist chose to do.
The "problem" here is that the cyclist was moving faster than traffic in the other lanes. The motorist considered moving over, but decided that the higher speed was worth being "blinded".

This is sometimes a problem ion NYC avenues where you want to get an aggressive driver off your tail. Unfortunately, if yours is the best game in town, he'll stay there indefinitely unless he sees a better opening.
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Old 01-01-17, 05:11 PM   #64
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Oh I get the point, just too bad that some feel the need to go to such extremes to deal with the motoring public.
Of course it would be best if motorist drove safely and did not harass. Still, cycling in the USA is way safer than living in Chicago with 762 homicides in 2016, even without video.

The camera can be a bit fun when you show the camera to a rude driver and they realize they have been caught, especially a CDL driver that knows such video could cost them their job.
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Old 01-01-17, 08:26 PM   #65
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But I've also had bumper taps when driving. You'd think someone could see a pickup in front of them.
Oddly, mounting a hay fork makes it much easier for them to keep a safe distance at any speed. Too bad they're way too heavy for bicycles.

Strange, since it really doesn't seem to do that much for visibility:
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Old 01-02-17, 01:19 AM   #66
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Like motorists were never taught how to properly deal with bright lights in their eyes?
I don't think they are. Certainly not in the driving books in AUS, HKG or UK.

Besides, drivers are of all ages and abilities (i.e. wearing glasses etc) which will also affect things.

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Sure, oncoming... but in the case of following, as in this situation, the solution is incredibly simple... back off... which is NOT what the motorist chose to do.
What if he THOUGHT he had the extra room, but misjudged it due to the brightness of the lights?

You can tell me again and again what he SHOULD have done, but that is meaningless by itself unless you examine things a bit.

The motorist didn't deliberately set out to hit the rider. They were distracted by something else (looked down at phone?), misjudged the distance, or they are just plain a crappy driver.
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Old 01-02-17, 11:15 AM   #67
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The wheel rotated backwards before the crash, not accident. Proof that "not a mean feat" can be accomplished by prats on bicycles, or maybe it is an optical illusion, or 1/d*d, or maybe oil and water are not slippery!

Before the crash, not accident:


Moment of crash, not accident:


Speaking of optical illusion, you might want to think of parallax and moving cameras.

-mr. bill
Regardless, that driver was way too close to him.
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Old 01-02-17, 11:55 AM   #68
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Bill, you continually get into these kinds of arguments here and I just don't understand it. You pick a tiny inconsequential hill to die on, while the battle is actually in the next valley.

Yes, it looks like you're right, the wheel moved backwards by an inch or two. Who cares? The same thing often happens when I stop at a light and put a foot down, which might be exactly what happened here. It's not like the rider physically rode backward into the car! Clearly the car was waaaay to close and the collision was the driver's fault. Why argue so hard about something inconsequential? Who cares?
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Old 01-02-17, 03:00 PM   #69
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Bill, you continually get into these kinds of arguments here and I just don't understand it. You pick a tiny inconsequential hill to die on, while the battle is actually in the next valley.

Yes, it looks like you're right, the wheel moved backwards by an inch or two. Who cares? The same thing often happens when I stop at a light and put a foot down, which might be exactly what happened here. It's not like the rider physically rode backward into the car! Clearly the car was waaaay to close and the collision was the driver's fault. Why argue so hard about something inconsequential? Who cares?
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Old 01-02-17, 04:13 PM   #70
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I get the impression that the driver didn't deny he intentionally hit the cyclist because he's annoyed by the taillight, "All I can see is your light! Look at that sign behind you? ...I can't f-ing see!" By "I made a mistake" he may be referring to deliberately hitting the cyclist. He could have honked at the cyclist if he wanted to complain about the light.

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Old 01-02-17, 08:33 PM   #71
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How many lumens does the rear light have? Also, is it lined up so it does not shine directly at a drivers position? What if the light produces >1100 lumens without an effective spread? That could make for a very intense light if not directed correctly. Perhaps we could be asking these questions as well.
Fair point.

The reason why I got the Cygolite Hotshot is precisely because it's so danged bright within a very narrow aperture and situation -- when you're directly behind it. Even the 50 lumen Hotshot 50 is painfully intense within a very narrow angle of view directly behind it.

Even in daylight, when set to the most frantic strobing modes the Hotshot 50 is visible to drivers -- but not as much as the more powerful Hotshots. So I use those modes in daylight. Toward dusk I get off the bike and reset the Cygolite to the less frantic pulsing mode.

The Cygolite Hotshots above the 50 lumen output are pointless for anything other than daylight use, where they really excel. The problem with the Hotshots is you can't reduce the lumen output except on steady. In the various flashing modes you can only adjust the timing, but not the peak output. That's a flaw I hope Cygolite will address.

That characteristic tends to nudge tailgaters to avoid tailgating. It even works -- too well -- in bicycling groups. That's why I set mine to the lowest steady intensity for group rides, where it's approximately equal to my old combo reflector/taillight and saddle mounted lights.

Alas, some folks on our group rides set their Cygolite Hotshots to full intensity strobe, which is painful for fellow cyclists. These are some of the nicest, most considerate people I know. They're just not aware of how bright those lights are. And because they're friends I've hesitated to talk with them about it. But I should do so.

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Sometimes I find that certain flash patterns and REALLY bright (and poorly aimed) lights make it difficult to correctly judge the distance between you and the bike in front.

Was this more the issue?
While I agree that some bike taillights can be intensely bright within a narrow aperture or angle of view, the logical action for most drivers would be to give more distance. Only an aggressive driver with some irresponsible anger problems would think it's a reasonable action to crowd the source of the bright light and provoke a confrontation.

In the US most emergency vehicles now use flashing lights that are much brighter than any bicycle can reasonable carry without also lugging a 12 volt lead battery. Would we consider it reasonable to crowd those emergency vehicles and provoke the cops, paramedics or firemen, or risk a collision?

Nope. Only a jackass would do that. Which is precisely what this driver was. A jackass. He slowed and stopped well away from the cyclist several times before the collision. That's unmistakable passive-aggressive B.S. from a guy who probably has a lifelong problem with anger and provoking confrontations.

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Lesson learned:

If you are a prat on a bicycle trackstanding in front of a bloke in a Mercedes, you can back into their bumper, throw your toys out of your pram and get the bloke to appologize to you.

If you keep yelling at the bloke you can get him to say something stupid.

Amazing.

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What ever happened to shrugging this kind of horse dung off and moving on?
But-but-but, that would eliminate the entire reason for the Argument & Sarcasm forum's existence.
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Old 01-02-17, 09:56 PM   #72
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I don't think they are. Certainly not in the driving books in AUS, HKG or UK.

Besides, drivers are of all ages and abilities (i.e. wearing glasses etc) which will also affect things.



What if he THOUGHT he had the extra room, but misjudged it due to the brightness of the lights?

You can tell me again and again what he SHOULD have done, but that is meaningless by itself unless you examine things a bit.

The motorist didn't deliberately set out to hit the rider. They were distracted by something else (looked down at phone?), misjudged the distance, or they are just plain a crappy driver.
see there, we are in full agreement...
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Old 01-02-17, 11:48 PM   #73
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Oddly, mounting a hay fork makes it much easier for them to keep a safe distance at any speed. Too bad they're way too heavy for bicycles.

Strange, since it really doesn't seem to do that much for visibility:
Even a simple rake will get motorists to give you more space when passing. For some reason, the thought of hitting a living, breathing human dictates a certain amount of effort to avoid it, but if that human has a sharp metal object in his hand, that space goes up by four-fold. Clearly, sharp metal objects are very valuable.
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Old 01-03-17, 10:58 AM   #74
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Hard to believe it's Europe, and not New York.
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Old 01-03-17, 01:57 PM   #75
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Even a simple rake will get motorists to give you more space when passing. For some reason, the thought of hitting a living, breathing human dictates a certain amount of effort to avoid it, but if that human has a sharp metal object in his hand, that space goes up by four-fold. Clearly, sharp metal objects are very valuable.
This is why behavioral economists claim to really reduce auto collisions all that needs to be done is mount a metal spike on every car's steering wheel center. Helps to have some skin in the game to encourage compliance.
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