mr_bill

De Horror!

-mr. bill

CrankyOne

Yep. Winter has an impact but it's not the show stopper many think it is. Otherwise places like Minneapolis, Chicago, Oulu Finland, Stockholm, and much of The Netherlands and Denmark wouldn't have the ridership that they do.

CrankyOne

Good find!

canklecat

Interesting that Austin, TX, is listed but Fort Worth is not. I've met cyclists from Austin, including one I rode with for about 30 miles around town last weekend, and they usually say Fort Worth is more cycling friendly than Austin.

I also read many more anecdotes about Austin police being unaccommodating toward the realities cyclists face, such as occasionally needing to ride through red lights that don't change for cyclists no matter how long you wait. Sounds like a ticket trap, just generating revenue without regard to safety. I don't mean sailing through heedlessly, but stopping and looking for a safe opening in traffic before proceeding. There are a few lights in Fort Worth that will never change for cyclists, and there's no button for pedestrians. My personal policy is to wait for two complete light changes. If the lights allow drivers coming toward me to proceed or turn left, but never change for me, I go as soon as the road is clear. I've done this with police parked and watching and they never stopped me. But, again, I don't blow through stop signs or red lights.

Stadjer

I rode that one a couple of months ago, I remember frowning upon it, but I wasn't horrified. This one made me wonder whether the city council aimed to reduce the number of inhabitants significantly. It's the next main crossing at the same road.


Ok, that I like, so her safety concerns where about the condition the bikes were in.

Cycleable range could be longer, especially in moderate dry climates. Half an hour on a bike isn't that bad. And I would add ease and safety, that's not just a matter of the authorities, has to do a lot with the behaviour of all road users, including cyclists.

mr_bill

I don't know how anyone would let a child ride through such an unfriendly intersection. But still a good warning of just how awful wonderful can be.



-mr. bill

Stadjer

When I was that age, cycling was a lot more dangerous than any of those crossings. Children aren't babies, they're not totally incompetent, they know traffic can be dangerous, they don't want to die and fear helps them pay attention. In large parts of the world children have to cope with greater dangers and more complicated dangers, and they do. It's really not that hard to stop at those shark teeth, every child on a bike knows them, and looking left and right isn't beyond them either. And if you were scared to cross you just didn't and waited for an adult to help you.

Thanks for the picture of one of my favorite painters.

chopsteeks

Copenhagen is one of my favorite cities....the city deserves to be called 'The Happiest Place in the World' !!!

GamblerGORD53

Apparently they highly rate kiddie MUPs, FEELing safe, painted silliness on roads and car exclusion gizmos like green NRT boxes.
Chengdu has probably thousands of miles of mostly fenced/ bushed off side lanes pretty well everywhere. You can go into the car side if necessary and nobody will complain. A lot of the thru car lanes are on double decking. Often stopping at long lights is the biggest hindrance, that and people dodging. I doubt half of those cities are better.

Gresp15C

Indeed, I see more cyclists on the coldest days (around -8 F this year) than on days when it rains.

mr_bill

The misery sweet spot is just above freezing, windy and raining.

-mr. bill

CrankyOne

Interestingly that is the most dangerous junctions in Groningen and one of the most dangerous in The Netherlands. I was there with David Hembrow some years ago and then went back last year. We sat at the café watching interactions between drivers and bikes/peds and it's a bit of a mess (though our analysis became increasingly cloudy with each pint).

Agree with @Stadjer that kids can handle it. Or... they can handle 95% of the infrastructure in The Netherlands and much of it in Denmark, Finland, Sweden, etc. We in the U.S. have a habit of infantilizing our children (and young adults) and this isn't good for them. We over protect them and that doesn't leave them well prepared for the real world. In Tanzania it's quite normal for a 9-year-old Masai to take a small heard of cows out to feed by themselves. They'll walk several miles with them to find food and water. 8-year-old street kids in India manage to figure out how to survive on their own. Our kids are not inherently less capable nor dumber, just ignorant and over-protected.

Check: https://www.freerangekids.com

mr_bill

If that is the most dangerous junction in Groningen we could use more such dangerous junctions around here.

The child is the canary showing that there is little danger in that coal mine.


BTW, if you want to read Lewis Mumford's actual quote, read his four part essay in The New Yorker:

• MARCH 19, 1955 ISSUE: The Sky Line, The Roaring Traffic's Boom -- I, pp. 115-121
• APRIL 2, 1955 ISSUE: The Sky Line, The Roaring Traffic's Boom -- II, pp. 97-103
  
  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Lewis Mumford

  People, it seems, find it hard to believe that the cure for congestion is not more facilities for congestion.
• APRIL 16, 1955 ISSUE: The Sky Line, The Roaring Traffic's Boom -- III, pp. 78-88
  
  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Lewis Mumford

  Like the tailor's remedy for obesity -- letting out the seems of the trousers and loosening the belt -- this does nothing to curb the greedy appetites that have caused the fat to accumulate.
• JUNE 11, 1955 ISSUE: The Sky Line, The Roaring Traffic's Boom -- IV, pp. 86-97

-mr. bill

CrankyOne

Yes. U.S. road design is, from a safety standpoint, the worst of all developed countries (and why we have the highest rates of crashes, injuries, and fatalities of all developed countries). And in the case of The Netherlands, their worst really is often better than most of our best. Ten years ago I wouldn't have had to qualify that but we are starting to get a few bits that are better than their worst. :-)

Mumford is one of the more quotable folks I can think of. At least in the infrastructure and planning world (with apologies to Jane Jacobs and Howard Kunstler).

Stadjer

That child is an experienced cyclist, has probably been cycling for 5 years and well over 5000 kms and is not happy having to cycle with his mother this time. You can wait till kids get older, but without experiences they're not going to get much wiser. Growing up is an activity, not a wait.

Maybe it's the safe infrastructure that makes this crossing dangerous, we expect predictable, transparent crossings and this one has a surprise, a bus lane and we have to guess which direction the bus could be coming from.

There are concerns about parents and teachers overprotecting children here too. I think cycling slowed that trend, as it teaches parents of young children to accept risks. It's not like the parents don't think about the dangers of cycling, but it's one the first decisions on risk they'll have to make and it's one those things they tend to do as their parents did with them and as other parents with children in the same age do.

mr_bill

OK, you've lost me now.

Are people really getting hurt at this intersection? (Then why hasn't it been fixed.)

Can five year old children safely manage this intersection?

While "look left" and "look right" on the pavement are signs of fail (because nobody expects a contra-flow bus lane on the left) - it doesn't seem like the bus could approach and cross the intersection unnoticed.

-mr. bill

Stadjer

Yes, but not really bad. By now most people now the intersection, it's the first time surprise that makes it unsafe.

With guidence of an adult or an older kid yes. 5 years is not really an age to cycle alone in this kind of traffic. In the own child friendly neighbourhood that's a different matter but the city center and the bordering neighbourhoods like this, children cycling without guidance are generally 9 or older.

The buses drive fast there, and people just don't expect a crossing after a crossing. Texts on the pavement don't work, signs on the pavement that are intuitive work, but texts don't. The first time I rode there I had no idea which direction the bus would be coming from. Maybe it's even safer for young children than for me, because I'm not used to paying attention, while for young children cycling crossings are bit scary anyway.