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Old 01-20-17, 12:32 AM   #1
CB HI
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City puts head in the sand

Cyclist blasts cars for driving up downtown bike lane - Toronto - CBC News

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The city does not plan to intervene.

"It appears that these are isolated incidents of driver error," she wrote. "The cycle track is well designed and marked with painted symbols, with separation provided by a concrete curb."
I hope the city gets their butts hauled into court by the first cyclist injured because of the design error the city made.

Note - another thread had the original video. I felt this article deserved it's own thread.
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Old 01-20-17, 12:57 AM   #2
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Looks like a poorly designed segue on that turn. Drivers probably find it difficult to quickly identify it as a bicycle-only lane. Once committed to that goof, it probably makes an odd sort of sense to a panicky, angry driver to continue ahead and try to find a way out, rather than backing up into a busy intersection with a tricky turn.

The simplest solution would be breakaway bollards in safety yellow or orange to allow cyclists to pass while making it more obvious to drivers on that turn. But I'm not a big fan of bollards, particularly the rigid metal or concrete posts. Some rigid bollards along our MUP are painted green or grayish rather than more visible yellow or orange -- they're dangerous to cyclists and difficult to see at night, especially with fogged glasses in bad weather.

On the plus side, rigid bollards convey an unmistakable "You goofed" message to errant drivers. A few weeks ago a vehicle bashed into the rigid bollards at the entrance to part of the MUP. The tire tracks didn't indicate a car had skidded off the curve -- more like they'd tried to drive through the bollard onto the MUP and was stopped by the very rigid metal pole.
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Old 01-20-17, 01:35 AM   #3
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My guess is that they need to look at signs marking entry ways. So, perhaps signs planted in a mini-island at major intersections (right side of the road traffic?)

Then, to the right into the bike lane, clearly show bicycles, and NO CARS. To the left, CARS

Also similar markings at the road shoulder
And, No-CAR symbols painted on the pavement.

Steel damaging bollards sound good, but I'd probably go with break-away (camera + alarms, and maybe cell 911)?
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Old 01-20-17, 01:39 AM   #4
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Course ya put in bollards, then you get the cyclists complaining that they can't see 'em at night and they keep hitting 'em.
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Old 01-20-17, 01:46 AM   #5
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Course ya put in bollards, then you get the cyclists complaining that they can't see 'em at night and they keep hitting 'em.
I hate bollards when towing a trailer. But, one could install a solar post + flashing lights, which should be visible to all road/trail users.
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Old 01-20-17, 01:57 AM   #6
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Reflective paint and street lights work well.
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Old 01-20-17, 06:45 AM   #7
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2007 - Before

2009 - Just Paint

2011 - Just More Paint

2014 - Closed

Summer/Fall 2015 - two flex bollards still standing, one other flex bollard already knocked down

Summer 2016 - bollards did not survive the winter

I'm sure, just like the 3rd Street Separated Bike Lane in Cambridge (our fair city) MA, it "meets" all engineering standards.

Finally, because some folks feel like a bollard, and some folks don't....


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Old 01-20-17, 07:25 AM   #8
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The Bollard in the picture above looks passable; but many car barriers are very hard to get through on a recumbent. There are some that are entirely impassable for my wife on her trike. As was already mentioned, Bollards also can discourage bike facility use by people pulling trailers.

The occasional lost car driver may be better than unusable bike facilities.

As far as the facilities in the article, it is easy to see why it is being mistaken for another auto traffic lane. Better marking and a separator between the traffic lanes and the bike lane might help. Further, if a person accidentally drifts into that bike lane, it would be very hard to get back out other than to completely enter the bike lane.
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Old 01-20-17, 09:17 AM   #9
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I've seen every type of bollard or post mentioned in the video above in use here in California-- and frankly, the dude complains too much. In order to keep cars off of the trails-- and the burnout marks you find in isolated areas proves that even the posts are not always effective-- you could find yourself where many of the California trails have ended up: the entrances of the trail are completely blocked by locked swing gates, and you get to dismount and snake-walk your bike through these horrible wooden contraptions designed to prevent the passage of anything going faster than about 1mph. I can't even google search for it, I have no idea what to even call it.

As to the Toronto situation, yeah, they need to put up posts. Otherwise, cars are going to continue to enter the bike lane, whether or accident or on purpose. I mean, do you know how many cars I've had to go around that are parked literally next to a sign that reads NO PARKING OR STOPPING IN BIKE LANE?

And lastly-- who runs into a pole? Do they hit every pothole, too? Those are seldom marked. Maybe it's because I'm so acclimated to them here, but when I approach an intersection or junction, I just assume there's going to be bollards. I'm just happy when it isn't a gate.
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Old 01-20-17, 10:17 AM   #10
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The problem looks to me like the CAR lanes divider is absent. Paint yellow dotted lines here and there will be NO confusion. Maybe also put a car symbol and arrow at the entrance.
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Old 01-20-17, 01:13 PM   #11
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If the driver is attentive, this can be avoided. Many-a-times when driving, I have almost made the same mistake with separated transit lanes and bike lanes. But have never gone so far as to actually enter them because you have to pay attention.

As mentioned and noted, there are several solutions but a lot of them, when drivers are determined they will find a way to enter. I've seen bollards separating car lanes from bike lanes. And I've seen cars parked in the bike lanes when they find bollards that are spaced far enough apart. Then to address that planters are placed between bollards.

Bollards at the beginning of the bike lanes make sense. Too deep inside and you would still get cars stuck in the bike lane.

What I haven't seen are curbs creating a narrow width (smaller than the width of a smart car) so that it's impossible for cars to try to squeeze in. Can't predict what motorcycles would do though.

Maybe just a simple sign saying "Hey stupid, this lane is for bicycles."

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Old 01-20-17, 02:31 PM   #12
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If the driver is attentive, this can be avoided. Many-a-times when driving, I have almost made the same mistake with separated transit lanes and bike lanes. But have never gone so far as to actually enter them because you have to pay attention.

As mentioned and noted, there are several solutions but a lot of them, when drivers are determined they will find a way to enter. I've seen bollards separating car lanes from bike lanes. And I've seen cars parked in the bike lanes when they find bollards that are spaced far enough apart. Then to address that planters are placed between bollards.

Bollards at the beginning of the bike lanes make sense. Too deep inside and you would still get cars stuck in the bike lane.

What I haven't seen are curbs creating a narrow width (smaller than the width of a smart car) so that it's impossible for cars to try to squeeze in. Can't predict what motorcycles would do though.

Maybe just a simple sign saying "Hey stupid, this lane is for bicycles."
No, apparently that just doesn't work either... Stupid is as stupid does...

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Old 01-20-17, 07:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Cyclist blasts cars for driving up downtown bike lane - Toronto - CBC News

I hope the city gets their butts hauled into court by the first cyclist injured because of the design error the city made.

Note - another thread had the original video. I felt this article deserved it's own thread.
Call me stupid. But in situations like that. Why not a concrete barrier that divides the bike lane from the driving lane?
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Old 01-20-17, 07:48 PM   #14
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The car width lanes recently installed here are painted green and rather than bollards they have planters narrowing the entrance at intersections enough that you'd have to work at it to accidentally get a car in there. Of course, I've yet to see a bicycle in these lanes either.
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Old 01-21-17, 03:52 PM   #15
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Bollards? Bollards!



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Old 01-21-17, 04:57 PM   #16
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Perhaps Toronto needs to get a cycle-cop out patrolling a couple of the more busy intersections
'
Try to figure out exactly why people are driving in the designated bike lane.

Ambiguous, or hard to see street markings?
Knew about the bike path, but it makes an excellent shortcut.

Then one's actions depend a bit on the answers from the drivers.
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Old 01-21-17, 05:04 PM   #17
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My Fair City spent IIRC $3.35 million USD on a separated bike path on a main downtown street. No one likes using it.

-Cars park in the path
-Cars drive down it
-There's no drainage, so the path becomes an ice rink or a lake with any moisture.
-The light timing is perfectly wrong to grant cyclists too little time to cross traffic, while slowing down cars and annoying them lots.

All I can say is, welcome to the club. Human drivers are becoming too stupid to be allowed to drive.
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Old 01-21-17, 10:49 PM   #18
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The retractable bollard design shown in that video is flawed. Any driver unfamiliar with that area or design could easily make the same mistake, although they shouldn't be tailgating and gunning the engine -- it did appear those vehicles were trying to beat the bollards, like two vehicles slipping through a sliding gate in a gated community. To be safe it would need to be designed like a canal lock, with retractable bollards or gates on either side of a staging area.
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Old 01-22-17, 03:13 AM   #19
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The retractable bollard design shown in that video is flawed.
They are perfect. They let the bus through and teach the scofflaw a lesson they will not forget.
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Old 01-22-17, 04:49 AM   #20
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the road down the way from me has an island in the middle, and people are always going the wrong way. Doesn't surprise me that they can't figure out that bicycle track
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Old 01-22-17, 09:14 AM   #21
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Bollards? Bollards!



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Those aren't bollards-those are loggerheads.
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Old 01-22-17, 09:27 AM   #22
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Those aren't bollards-those are loggerheads.
Whatever you call them, it wouldn't stop people from parking in that path here. They hop the median.


You can't fix dumb.
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Old 01-22-17, 10:16 AM   #23
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No, apparently that just doesn't work either... Stupid is as stupid does...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Cw0QJU8ro
If I were a visitor or saw those for the first time, I'd be thinking how come the bus got through and I couldn't? What is it that I need to do to get in?

But I guess those cars in the video are locals and should know better.
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Old 01-22-17, 10:49 AM   #24
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They are perfect. They let the bus through and teach the scofflaw a lesson they will not forget.
You can't help but to think they had it coming.

Unfortunately in the US I think fear of lawsuits for resultant damage or injury would dissuade municipalities from using such a system.
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Old 01-22-17, 11:06 AM   #25
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You can't help but to think they had it coming.

Unfortunately in the US I think fear of lawsuits for resultant damage or injury would dissuade municipalities from using such a system.
Just post a sign that says "Not responsible for damages" like I see in so many private parking lots.
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