Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-23-17, 07:15 PM   #26
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 15,160
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
the logic of saying that the cyclist was in the way and not noting that the motorist stopped in the middle of the road twice because there was no other traffic is showing a rather ridiculous bias. The motorist needs a serious attitude readjustment
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-17, 07:22 PM   #27
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'
Posts: 1,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Too bad the cyclist sunk to the same poor language and "signaling" skills as that motorist... it implies road rage on both their parts.

You have to just smile and wave boys, smile and wave.
I agree that the cyclist's 'choice of language', was not great. It pales in comparison to the driver's actions.

I remember that kind of situation happening to me on several occasions. Where someone tried to use their car in a confrontational manner.
Chris0516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-17, 07:27 PM   #28
howsteepisit
Senior Member
 
howsteepisit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Eugene, OR
Bikes: Mecian
Posts: 4,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 425 Post(s)
As far as I am concerned the driver attempted to strike the rider with his vehicle; he should be charged with assault and battery. While I do not believe in swearing and flipping, there is a large difference between speech and gestures and assault. It appears to me that road rage has become a legitimizing claim for bizarre and dangerous anti-social behavior.
howsteepisit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-17, 08:08 PM   #29
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Plus... rider not yielding to car.....riding right in the middle of the road.....and I don't car if there on Sharrows painted in the street.
Yielding is a function of right of way. One yields to another user when that user has the right of way. In this case, the cyclist has the right of way and thus should not yield. These are the rules of the road and they work best when they are followed. When I hit a four way stop, I don't want other users to yield to me when they in fact have the right of way. It just causes confusion. When you have the right of way, there is no reason to yield and every reason not to. If everyone just follows the rules of the road, there won't be any issues. It's really a pretty simple concept.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-17, 08:12 PM   #30
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
It's really a pretty simple concept.
Simple for some, incomprehensible for others.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-17, 08:56 PM   #31
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,349
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
True enough. I watched that video three more times. If the rider gave the red car the finger, as stated above, it probably happened at 0:08 in the video.
No, it came much later, at 1:04. I think you can see the one-finger salute in the corner of the screen as the cyclist looks back after the driver had gotten out of his car and accosted him. In one post you accused the cyclist of escalating the situation, but by the time he uses profanity and shoots the finger he has already been pushed toward the curb by the driver swerving into his path which was certainly done in a threatening manner (i.e. assault). Uttering some impolite words and gestures in response to multiple assaults with a deadly weapon is hardly an escalation.

I can see some logic to both your 'get out of there fast' approach and the less appeasing approach taken by the cyclist in this encounter. Certainly it's safer to get out of the situation quickly, but giving in to an aggressor by getting out of their way is frequently not the most natural reaction with the adrenaline rush from feeling threatened.

Similar to the advice to just hand over the money and jewelry to a mugger so you're less likely to get hurt. Yes, that's probably safest for the individual involved, but I'm actually glad not everyone reacts that way. Overall I think it's good that muggers can't be sure they won't encounter someone who fights back or raises enough of an alarm to attract the attention of others.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 12:19 PM   #32
Milton Keynes
Senior Member
 
Milton Keynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Bikes:
Posts: 805
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
The video camera stopped the motorist as soon as he saw it on the cyclist. At time :53 sec the motorist sees camera, stops dead in his tracks, shuts his mouth and goes straight back to his car not saying another word.
This time, this driver. However, get someone with severe rage issues or who doesn't realize the cyclist has a camera on his helmet, and who knows what would have happened?
Milton Keynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 12:43 PM   #33
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'
Posts: 1,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I suspect here is more to this video than is published. The rider sees red car on left and looks to left several times like they have just had a previous encounter on another street.
I don't know about how you ride, but when I go past a car at intersection, I don't keep looking back at it.
Plus... rider not yielding to car.....riding right in the middle of the road.....and I don't car if there on Sharrows painted in the street.
The only vehicle(s) he has to yield to, are Police/Fire/EMS, just like motorists'. Because it is the law. 'Taking the lane' is his his legal right.
Chris0516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 03:23 PM   #34
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
OMG...! Ya'll so touchie....

When somebody almost runs a stop but stops at the last minute... I don't keep looking back at them..... I ride on. Something else happened.

Show me the law that says because a Sharrow is painted on the road, it means you ride right where the Sharrow is painted, instead of yielding to other vehicles..sharing the road. It works both ways. Is that painted Sharrow your savior?
trailangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 03:50 PM   #35
atbman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Leeds UK
Bikes:
Posts: 2,014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
OMG...! Ya'll so touchie....

When somebody almost runs a stop but stops at the last minute... I don't keep looking back at them..... I ride on. Something else happened.

Show me the law that says because a Sharrow is painted on the road, it means you ride right where the Sharrow is painted, instead of yielding to other vehicles..sharing the road. It works both ways. Is that painted Sharrow your savior?
May I respectfully refer you to Wisconsin traffic regulations re cyclists:
Quote:
Narrow lanes
  • Ride in the center of the lane.
  • Keep at least three feet between yourself and passing or parked traffic.
Wide lanes
  • Keep at least three feet between yourself and the curb or from parked vehicles. Motorists should be passing you with at least 3 feet of clearance.
Don't get the door prize!
  • Ride in a straight line three feet out from parked cars. You'll avoid car doors that open in front of you and you'll be more visible to other drivers.
  • Don't pull into the space between parked cars. Ride just to the right of the actual traffic line, not alongside the curb.
  • Ride straight, three feet from parked cars - don't get "doored"
Perhaps you could let us know how he was disobeying the law in his state? Or why your opinion should take precedence over said law?
atbman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 06:19 PM   #36
Skankingbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Skankingbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: AllCity Nature Boy, On-one Pompino (FOR SALE!!) , Fuji Roubaix road bike, Orbea Alma 29er MTB, Voodoo Hoodoo converted 69er ss mtb,
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
OMG...! Ya'll so touchie....

Show me the law that says because a Sharrow is painted on the road, it means you ride right where the Sharrow is painted, instead of yielding to other vehicles..sharing the road. It works both ways. Is that painted Sharrow your savior?

Happy to oblige. See bold text below in particular

City of Madison street regulations:

Bicycle boulevards are low speed, low (motor vehicle) traffic volume, local streets that are designated for use primarily by bicyclists. Motor vehicles are welcome on bicycle boulevards. Special blue street signs and shared lane (sharrow) pavement markings signify that motor vehicles must be attentive to the large numbers of cyclists and lower their speeds.

https://www.cityofmadison.com/bikema...boulevards.cfm

Sharrows are pavement markings installed in travel lanes,
reminding motorists that they should expect to see and
share the road with bicyclists by slowing down and passing
only when safe, giving at least three feet of clearance when
passing.

Sharrows can be used on a variety of street types. They may
be used on busier streets where we would prefer to have
bicycle lanes but do not have the space for these, or they
can be used on lower volume streets where we are
encouraging bicycle traffic (bicycle boulevards).

In areas with on‐street parking, sharrows help bicyclists
position themselves within the lane so as to avoid being hit
by a suddenly opened car door. Although it is the motorist’s
responsibility to check for bicyclists or other traffic before
opening their door, riding too close to parked cars is still a
common mistake that can lead to serious injury.
Sharrows are also used to help bicyclists position themselves
in a lane near an intersection to avoid turning movement
crashes such as the “right hook”.

What do sharrows mean for bicyclists and drivers?
Bicyclists:
Use the sharrow to guide where you ride within the lane—
generally through the center of the sharrow.

Remember not to ride too close to parked cars—watch for
opening doors.
Be aware of your surroundings and follow the rules of the
road.
Drivers:
Expect to see bicyclists on the street.
Remember to give bicyclists space when passing. At least
three feet of clearance is required.
Be aware of your surroundings and follow the rules of the
road.
For more information: email traffic@cityofmadison.com
or visit our website at www. cityofmadison.com

https://www.cityofmadison.com/traffi...arrowFlyer.pdf
Skankingbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 06:35 PM   #37
Skankingbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Skankingbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: AllCity Nature Boy, On-one Pompino (FOR SALE!!) , Fuji Roubaix road bike, Orbea Alma 29er MTB, Voodoo Hoodoo converted 69er ss mtb,
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Skankingbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 07:47 PM   #38
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
OMG...! Ya'll so touchie....



Show me the law that says because a Sharrow is painted on the road, it means you ride right where the Sharrow is painted, instead of yielding to other vehicles..
The sharrow indicates your right of way. The rules of the road are pretty clear and unambiguous. Other users yield to users with the right of way. That's how it works. You don't "yield" when you have the right of way. Rules work best when they are followed. If you choose to improvise, you just create confusion. Following the established rules of the road keeps the road safe for all users. Just seems odd to me to suggest otherwise.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 08:12 PM   #39
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Oh my. Out here in LA LA LAND ... land of the cars..... even if you have the Sharrows slower vehicles need to move to the right and let others pass.
Are you sure ya'll aren't uptight because the Packers choked....
trailangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 08:41 PM   #40
Skankingbiker
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Skankingbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Bikes: AllCity Nature Boy, On-one Pompino (FOR SALE!!) , Fuji Roubaix road bike, Orbea Alma 29er MTB, Voodoo Hoodoo converted 69er ss mtb,
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Oh my. Out here in LA LA LAND ... land of the cars..... even if you have the Sharrows slower vehicles need to move to the right and let others pass.
Are you sure ya'll aren't uptight because the Packers choked....
If by "choked" you mean couldn't perform when 1/2 their team was injured....nope. They gave us a great run and it would have been more heartbreaking to see them lose in the S.B. They have us a great 2nd half of the season and postseason.
Skankingbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 08:53 PM   #41
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Oh my. Out here in LA LA LAND ... land of the cars..... even if you have the Sharrows slower vehicles need to move to the right and let others pass.
Are you sure ya'll aren't uptight because the Packers choked....
Packers and fans seem to be more loyal than CA teams.

And the driver completely blew through the stop sign, he did NOT make a last minute stop behind the stop sign as your prior post falsely implies.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-17, 09:22 PM   #42
rossiny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: wisconsin
Bikes: Rossin,Raleigh,Casati
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
He can still obtain a lawyer and sue for attempted assault. Don't know the back ground of what happen but when u crowd some one with a car it is a deadly weapon. ..
rossiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 12:16 AM   #43
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,587
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 253 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
The video camera stopped the motorist as soon as he saw it on the cyclist. At time :53 sec the motorist sees camera, stops dead in his tracks, shuts his mouth and goes straight back to his car not saying another word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
This time, this driver. However, get someone with severe rage issues or who doesn't realize the cyclist has a camera on his helmet, and who knows what would have happened?
If the driver advances two more steps what happens will involve a medical transport, a tow truck, cops and I'll be late to work. Don't ask how I know that.

Not a common occurrence for me to have to deal with a rager who will actually get out of his vehicle. Perhaps my being 6'2", 185 lbs, fit, trained and not the slightest bit intimidated by someone who cannot control his temper has a calming affect on people. Even the methed-up sleep-deprived truck driver who got out of his rig with a crow bar decided to not take those last two steps. I must be like one of those wave machines they used to sell to help people sleep.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 07:35 AM   #44
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,349
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Oh my. Out here in LA LA LAND ... land of the cars..... even if you have the Sharrows slower vehicles need to move to the right and let others pass.
Not true. The law in California regarding Sharrows is the same as in Wisconsin. Sharrows are placed on lanes such as the one shown in the video which are too narrow for a car and a bicycle to safely share side-by-side. That's one of the exceptions to the 'far to the right' rule and allows the bicyclist to use the entire lane.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 11:05 AM   #45
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Try that sometime and let me know how it works out for you.
trailangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 01:31 PM   #46
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Try that sometime and let me know how it works out for you.
I have been doing it for years and it has worked well for me.

You sound like someone who has never cycle commuted during rush hour and tried such riding that many have done successfully for ages.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 01:41 PM   #47
trailangel
Senior Member
 
trailangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Posts: 1,886
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
I would have been up on the sidewalk in a heartbeat and just kept rolling...... let the driver drive up on the sidewalk.
I don't have any of these experiences..... I think they see my gray hair and crazy eye and decide it ain't worth the trouble.
trailangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 01:45 PM   #48
prathmann
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Bikes:
Posts: 6,349
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
Try that sometime and let me know how it works out for you.
It's been working fine for the last few hundred thousand miles and I expect it to continue to work well for the next few.
prathmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 01:45 PM   #49
CB HI
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes:
Posts: 12,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 704 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
I would have been up on the sidewalk in a heartbeat and just kept rolling...... let the driver drive up on the sidewalk.
I don't have any of these experiences..... I think they see my gray hair and crazy eye and decide it ain't worth the trouble.
And if you are a commuting cyclist with the same drivers on the same road at the same time everyday, you either train them how to properly behave or you spend all of your time riding on the sidewalk.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-17, 03:07 PM   #50
sumgy
Senior Member
 
sumgy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
It is good to see that anti-cyclist cyclists dont just live in Australia.
sumgy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:00 AM.