Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-16-17, 01:26 PM   #201
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 25,431
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Just think in an imaginary world where you and a few other BF posters prefer to dwell...
when robots do all of society's work, no more work related injuries or fatalities!

when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.

best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
Exaggerate much?
genec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-17, 04:16 PM   #202
momsonherbike
Senior Member
 
momsonherbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Northern Virginia
Bikes: 1995 Giant "Nutra" crosstrail, 2012 Giant "Avail 1" road bike
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Just think in an imaginary world where you and a few other BF posters prefer to dwell...
when robots do all of society's work, no more work related injuries or fatalities!

when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.

best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
The sci-fi short story was called "With Folded Hands".

Written 70 years ago. I read it when I was in my teens, easily 50 years ago, during my "sci-fi reading craze". Never forgot it. Even a half century later I can still remember the ending with perfect clarity. Better than what I remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. Even back then that story was scary as hell.

That said, I can't wait for the autonomous car to take over the roadways, and the driving chores. I'd feel much safer on my bike out there with the mechanical beasts minus their human conductors.

Last edited by momsonherbike; 06-16-17 at 04:27 PM.
momsonherbike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-17, 09:35 PM   #203
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 25,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by genec View Post
Exaggerate much?
I am not the one exaggerating the super-duper safety future of American roads extrapolated from the wishful thinking/sales pitch/hucksterism of the promoters of autonomous driverless vehicles.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 11:30 AM   #204
genec
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Posts: 25,431
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2281 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I am not the one exaggerating the super-duper safety future of American roads extrapolated from the wishful thinking/sales pitch/hucksterism of the promoters of autonomous driverless vehicles.
We will just never know until it does happen... in the meantime, there are a number of well respected companies working on this tech, so hardly a issue of hucksters. And no matter what, the technology HAS resulted in collision avoidance systems for even human piloted vehicles.

Only time will tell.
genec is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 04:00 PM   #205
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Why is bad driving an acceptable norm?
What a silly statement? What will you suggest next, that husbands and wives be replaced by robot spouses so people are not in danger of domestic violence? Shall we replace pushbikes with electric bikes because people are injuring their knees and hips and having heart attacks by riding too strenuously?
coominya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 04:04 PM   #206
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
I am not the one exaggerating the super-duper safety future of American roads extrapolated from the wishful thinking/sales pitch/hucksterism of the promoters of autonomous driverless vehicles.
I'm glad to see some of us around here are still thinking for themselves. IT and AI has become a religion with these people, they believe every word uttered by the priests of HiTech and question nothing. Every 5 or so years a new invention is touted and when it doesn't come to pass simply pretend it never was and transfer their zeal to the next promised digital messiah.
coominya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 06:19 PM   #207
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Bikes: Novara Randonee
Posts: 737
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
I'm glad to see some of us around here are still thinking for themselves. IT and AI has become a religion with these people, they believe every word uttered by the priests of HiTech and question nothing.
Those silly people that believe in math and science.
tyrion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 07:39 PM   #208
350htrr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Bikes: 27 speed oryx with over 38,000Km on it, 10,000Km with a BionX assist on it
Posts: 3,002
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
What a silly statement? What will you suggest next, that husbands and wives be replaced by robot spouses so people are not in danger of domestic violence? Shall we replace pushbikes with electric bikes because people are injuring their knees and hips and having heart attacks by riding too strenuously?
I would "suggest" more stricter driving tests/exams... only people who can "actually" drive should have a drivers licence...

Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
I'm glad to see some of us around here are still thinking for themselves. IT and AI has become a religion with these people, they believe every word uttered by the priests of HiTech and question nothing. Every 5 or so years a new invention is touted and when it doesn't come to pass simply pretend it never was and transfer their zeal to the next promised digital messiah.
Think back about five/ten years... Would you have believed the phone becoming a mobile device that captivates so many...? Even while walking, and driving, or siting in a restaurant with an-other person, (out on a date) ? and neither says anything to the other for basically 10-20 minutes, or even the whole time I watched them, (they were always on the phone interacting with others and ignoring the person they were with)... ? I have watched others in situations like that and seen that over and over... WOW...
350htrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-17, 09:13 PM   #209
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
I would "suggest" more stricter driving tests/exams... only people who can "actually" drive should have a drivers licence...
I know... I suspect those demanding self drive cars are the ones having all the accidents

Quote:
Think back about five/ten years... Would you have believed the phone becoming a mobile device that captivates so many...
Funny that isn't it. Look at the TV, that was an amazing technological invention, it took families who used to sit together around a table discussing their day and interracting together and plonked them in front of the 6 Oclock news where they could eat while watching murder and tragedy and fraud and political turmoil.

Technology is vastly overatted in its benifits and as you point out the smart phone is a total disaster for social development. I personally know of 3 friendships and one family that has been shattered apart because of the anti-social medium of facebook. We all know examples...



coominya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 11:40 PM   #210
Rollfast
What happened?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Bikes: Shooting for a family of six
Posts: 4,743
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 466 Post(s)
I think the weather was either way too wet or hotter than molten steel and people got stuck in their homes typing. Makes me dizzy.
__________________
Brought to you by...improved OLD AGE! Whatever you want, Old Age has got it, get your own, and get off my property! Crazy kids! :p
Rollfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-17, 11:59 PM   #211
tyrion
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Bikes: Novara Randonee
Posts: 737
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
Technology is vastly overatted in its benifits and as you point out the smart phone is a total disaster for social development. I personally know of 3 friendships and one family that has been shattered apart because of the anti-social medium of facebook. We all know examples...
In the context of this thread I think you're mostly full of nonsense coominya, but I agree with this point you make here. There's lots of negative aspects about modern technology. It's moving a little faster than is healthy, in my opinion. But self-driving cars is really one of the more benign and beneficial technologies that's about to take over the world (unless you drive a car for a living, then it's not so good).
tyrion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 01:43 AM   #212
Dannyloeb
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
As with any great technology - depends on how you use it

If self driving technology will reduce people's awareness, than it may not do good ...
Dannyloeb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 06:33 AM   #213
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Bikes:
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
What a silly statement? What will you suggest next, that husbands and wives be replaced by robot spouses so people are not in danger of domestic violence? Shall we replace pushbikes with electric bikes because people are injuring their knees and hips and having heart attacks by riding too strenuously?
Let's put it another way. Why do you prefer the current behaviour that results in 90 deaths each day over their solutions? You know, telling drivers to drive better aren't working. Stricter law enforcement only creates political backlash. So the statement reflects the observation, that bad driving is a socially acceptable norm.
Daniel4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 11:16 AM   #214
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,994
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350htrr View Post
I would "suggest" more stricter driving tests/exams... only people who can "actually" drive should have a drivers licence...
Not everyone involved in an accident could not actually drive. Actually, anyone... everyone, involved in an accident has proven that they, in fact, were very much capable of piloting a motor vehicle to the site of the impact. The car that gets crushed by a freight train may have executed that kind of maneuver several times before, demonstrating a level of vehicle handling and panache somewhat in excess of the average license holder. Bad judgement, momentary bad judgement, cannot be predicted. Stricter driving tests only empower smug above it all types to make sweeping generalizations about other drivers none of whom they believe possess 'the right stuff' to be driving automobiles. That would be incorrect.
Leisesturm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 11:24 AM   #215
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 2,994
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyloeb View Post
If self driving technology will reduce people's awareness, than it may not do good ...
I can quote my credit card number and associated dates and security information on command. Can you? My wife, who is blind can recall all our various credit and banking data plus all the phone numbers of her friends and family! As a young adult I kept most of the phone numbers of my friends and family in memory. I did not keep a paper phone number list. Smartphones are definitely having a negative impact on the human ability to store and recall arcania. And? What? If the use of a Smartphone kills the ability to memorize information its not like people can no longer call friends, it is just that they need their phone to do it. You would need the phone anyway to make the call. The only downside to self-driving cars that I can see is if there is no attempt made to force them to adopt all electric propulsion technology. An increased vehicle fleet of self-driving vehicles that can be on the road emitting CO2 even while their owners are otherwise occupied elsewhere would be a very bad development.
Leisesturm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 06:37 PM   #216
Ninety5rpm
Bicyclist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Anytown, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I suspect it will be environmental things like black ice or oil slicks from an earlier accident or the structural failure of a bridge or overpass while the car is on it. Regular cars can, even now be fitted with brake lights that strobe for a couple of seconds before settling down to a steady red upon brake application. That's all the 'back off' anyone needs. I do it myself to tailgaters, just tap the brake a couple of times. They get the message. If they don't then you know exactly what you're dealing with. I don't think those kinds of drivers are a significant source of accidents.
Tailgaters are much more common than collapsing bridges or even oil slicks or black ice. Almost all of the crashes in which the Google/Waymo cars have been involved when in self-driving mode have been rear-enders, all classified as not the self-driving car's fault. I'm certain there have been zero crashes involving collapsing infrastructure, black ice or oil slicks. Tailgaters are practically the sole source of crashes with these cars.
Ninety5rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 06:41 PM   #217
Ninety5rpm
Bicyclist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Anytown, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coominya View Post
No, genec, you're grasping at straws now. The computer hasn't a clue what's behind it, it could be a trash can dropped from a passing truck, but a human will know it's a cyclist and have the concept in their conscious mind long after they have looked away from the mirror. Computers can be made to do simple tasks like the one I am doing now now on my laptop because they have been programmed to. But take a computer out of it's depth even a little and it locks up or jinxes or makes any number of errors.

navigating the constantly fluid road environment is simply beyond them and they will always crash into barriers, run under trucks, and eventually be killing people as they prioritize inanimate objects above a living organism in their senseless pursuit of the lesser of two collision options.

AI is a SiFi fantasy, always has been, will probably remain so, and nothing short of AI would be safe on the roads.
Whoa, I had to check the date to make sure this wasn't posted five years ago.

Dude, where have you been? These cars are equipped with technology that recognizes and distinguishes practically anything. Will they have glitches initially? Certainly, but the technology is there. A year ago I was thinking we were 10 years away. Now it's less than five, maybe less than two.

Last edited by Ninety5rpm; 06-19-17 at 06:59 PM.
Ninety5rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 06:43 PM   #218
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
There's lots of negative aspects about modern technology. It's moving a little faster than is healthy, in my opinion.
OTOH, there is no time in recorded history when some did not hold that opinion.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 06:48 PM   #219
MikeOK
member Yo
 
MikeOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ozark Mountains
Bikes: 2005 Yeti AS-R, 2017 Motobecane Le Champion CF
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamRider85 View Post
Remember about a year ago, I was obsessed about the world becoming safer for cyclists. I literally wish we had our own cycling highways. But everyday I hear more and more about safer self driving car technology. Now I don't really know how close we are till this technology is improved or perfected. I really don't know.

But if this technology did take off in say 10 years and it was proven to be 100 x safer than human driving, would that be good news for cyclists? Could we just cycle every road without any worries? Imagine what a heaven that would be for us. Just saying.
We are a very long time from autonomous cars. Neither google maps nor imaps can even find my house. When you put my address into google it takes you to a Chilli's about 15 miles away. How are we ever to expect that a car can drive us with enough precision to be safe on a crowded highway? I enjoy drining, I will never give driving up to a machine. I really don't see the advantage.
MikeOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:00 PM   #220
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOK View Post
We are a very long time from autonomous cars. Neither google maps nor imaps can even find my house.
That doesn't mean the technology doesn't exist. There's a guy sitting in Tampa who can direct a drone to deliver a smart bomb through your bedroom window if the DoD wishes that to happen. That there are glitches in free maps on the internet says little about the true capacities of modern technology.

The reality is we are not a very long time from autonomous cars. We have autonomous cars now. It may be some time before they are universal, but we'll see them in fairly widespread commercial usage within a decade. Cost is now a greater hurdle than technology.

But I too enjoy driving and don't plan on giving it up either. Even if I do believe the autonomous vehicles are already safer and will become ever more so.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:08 PM   #221
Ninety5rpm
Bicyclist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Anytown, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOK View Post
We are a very long time from autonomous cars. Neither google maps nor imaps can even find my house. When you put my address into google it takes you to a Chilli's about 15 miles away. How are we ever to expect that a car can drive us with enough precision to be safe on a crowded highway? I enjoy drining, I will never give driving up to a machine. I really don't see the advantage.
I think you're confusing GPS navigation accuracy with lane/roadway positioning accuracy. It's true that an autonomous car must deal with both, but they're distinct systems.

With respect to navigation, I think initially, and probably for many years, truly autonomous vehicles will be rolled out as ride-hail cars within fixed zones. The number and sizes of zones will grow, but navigation and mapping will be verified to be very accurate for all addresses within a zone before it becomes active. GPS will be used for backup, but for the most part the cars will know where they are simply by keeping track of where they are on their built-in maps, which are constantly refreshed/updated as needed.

As to lane/roadway positioning accuracy, that's the technology being developed and tested and honed as we speak.That's staying within a lane, choosing a lane, choosing safe following distance, avoiding blind spots, etc. Production cars like Teslas are already doing much of that.
Ninety5rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:08 PM   #222
MikeOK
member Yo
 
MikeOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ozark Mountains
Bikes: 2005 Yeti AS-R, 2017 Motobecane Le Champion CF
Posts: 1,384
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 320 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
That doesn't mean the technology doesn't exist. There's a guy sitting in Tampa who can direct a drone to deliver a smart bomb through your bedroom window if the DoD wishes that to happen. That there are glitches in free maps on the internet says little about the true capacities of modern technology.

The reality is we are not a very long time from autonomous cars. We have autonomous cars now. It may be some time before they are universal, but we'll see them in fairly widespread commercial usage within a decade. Cost is now a greater hurdle than technology.

But I too enjoy driving and don't plan on giving it up either. Even if I do believe the autonomous vehicles are already safer and will become ever more so.
I know we have them. The last Tesla test car crashed and totaled itself out. We are at least 30 years away, and even then they will only be used in large metropolitan areas.
MikeOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:13 PM   #223
coominya
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Posts: 1,366
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 582 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Certainly, but the technology is there. A year ago I was thinking we were 10 years away. Now it's less than five, maybe less than two.
May it be granted unto you according to your faith.

coominya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:17 PM   #224
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Bikes:
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOK View Post
We are at least 30 years away, and even then they will only be used in large metropolitan areas.
Hope we're both still around in a decade to see who is right. Thirty years might be pressing it for me, so I'd better be correct in ten.

And metro areas won't be the only early adopters. Long haul trucks on the highway will adopt this technology early on.
jon c. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-17, 07:26 PM   #225
Ninety5rpm
Bicyclist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Anytown, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 133
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOK View Post
he last Tesla test car crashed and totaled itself out.
Do you mean the one in Florida over a year ago that was unable to "see" a while truck against the sun? A serious flaw that was fixed within a few weeks?

That's all you've got? That wasn't a test car. That was one of their "auto pilot" cars (glorified cruise control) which is still far from fully autonomous and requires the human driver to remain alert and in control.
Ninety5rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 PM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    get answers from real people!
Click to start entering your question.
I HAVE A QUESTION