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Old 07-14-17, 01:40 PM   #151
PatrickGSR94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
I Like To Bike

Well we actually don't have any numbers-so everything I wrote
I mde up from whole cloth
One exception NBC-3 nights ago-said 800 bike deaths from cars per year
Now frankly-I have my doubts about that-
the 800 deaths were probably Total bike riding deaths-some of which are single vehicle-running

There really isn't any data on lane placement likelyhood(sic?) of injury-so I just made some up because i'm that kind of guy
But I told you it was made up,so..


I used 1000 bike car deaths per year(despite NBC claim of 800-because i like nice numbers)
I used 1,000,000,000 total hours riding at risk per year by using my roughly 300 hrs per year
and 3,000,000 riders-then I cheated-claimed 333 hours per rider-once again-nice number

Now 1 death per million hours at risk-frankly it seem low-but since I made it up
it would be roughly 1 death per 10,000,000 miles at risk(10 mph)-that seems low


FBinNY-yes I probably shouldn't have used this as an excuse to attack LC-but I couldn't resist
A experienced rider plops his inexperienced friend on a narrow mountain road-no shoulder
has his inexperienced friend ride FAR LEFT-
a position certain to piss someone off
and he records him
Who in the world would place an inexperienced ride in that position??

The driver-yeah it was 99.999% intentional
and the driver was an incompetent bully-he no doubt meant to crowd the riders over
typical bully type move
but he wasn't even competent enough to do that-
and sneaky SOB ran off-made up a laughable lie(they threw the bike at me)
Hey maybe this guy is a heavy user of something-opoids booze -
of course fair chance he is just an AH

Yeah he did it intentionally-and he left the scene-and he told a stupid lie
and it will cost him a large pile of $$-
maybe he will lose that shiny Volvo(maybe $45,000 new)-be reduced to a 1998 Suburban($2000)
Bet he dodges jail-mainly because no significant injury-
and jurors don't like bike riders-and won't be happy about the lane position
and the driver-will clean himself up
worked at a pricey private school-so safe bet he is a well spoken smooth lying SOB
No jail but plenty of $$

My suspicion is if this ever went to trial(it won't)
the driver's lawyer would show that video- and ask the experienced rider why in the world did he think it was a good idea to put his inexperienced buddy FAR LEFT on a narrow mountian road
And Video him??
The lawyer-if allowed-will suggest this was some sort of martyr to the cause "plan"
Jurors-all drivers-won't understand the lane position-they won't understand the why record
They will take it as meaning the riders were deliberately positioning themselves to create conflict
No way will any driver/juror on earth buy the LC VC controlling the lane is safer argument
heck I ride 1 hour/d for 50 years-I don't buy it-


Yes i do blame the experienced rider-yep I blame him-he is a fool
or worse he set his buddy up to be a martyr -
probably just a fool
but the GoPro at the ready suggests he knows drivers react poorly to that lane position but he put his buddy there anyway
Yes i am blaming the experienced rider
Yeah buddy is a jerk
he dangerously positioned his buddy-and recorded it-
That jerk KNEW he was putting his buddy at risk

Yeah they were legally positioned(but that will be argued)
Yes the driver intentionally hit the rider(might have been a bully move gone bad)-yes he left-yes he is a liar
yes he should go to jail(he won't)
But the experienced rider-jerk-and jurors(all drivers) would see it that way
Your whole post puts a whole hell of a lot of speculation on the incident. The camera cyclist "PUT" his friend there? Speculation. He KNEW he was putting his friend at risk? Speculation. Use of camera because he knows drivers react poorly? Maybe, but that's why all cyclists use cameras, to catch situations like this. Obviously. Same reason why motorists use dash cams.

You don't know these cyclists. You don't know why they decided to ride there. Maybe it was the victim's idea to ride that day, maybe he himself wanted to go on the Trace. We don't know one way or the other. Maybe the victim decided to pull up in front of the camera cyclist and lead for awhile, but he happened to pass on the left right at the same time as the cars were passing. Since there's no video from prior to what we've seen, everything you've posted is straight up speculation and victim blaming.
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Old 07-15-17, 05:37 AM   #152
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Of course it is speculation- when I wrote "suggests" it meant i was guessing/lying/speculating/barely educated guessing
Pretty sure I didn't claim I could read the mind of the experienced rider or the less experienced or the driver
But yes I do blame the experienced rider for the lane position of the inexperienced rider.

Yes I am speculating
No I'm not blaming the victim
Yes I am blaming his buddy
Yes I am blaming the driver-
Yes I do think it will cost the driver a pile of $$ (pay off rider so he will sign off on no jail-pay lawyer to negotiate a no jail plea)
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Old 07-16-17, 04:24 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbailey View Post
All the talk about not seeing the bicycle is negated by his statement to police that someone threw a bicycle at his car.
It was a ninja, throwing an invisible bicycle that hit his car inaudibly, so he didn't know it happened. At all. Not even when he was talking about it.
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Old 07-16-17, 05:16 AM   #154
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Yeah the bicycle being thrown at my SUV-not helpful-he should have shut his mouth-doesn't anyone watch TV-never talk to the LEOs
Especially if you are guilty! You can't outsmart them-they do this all day long.

But our "schoolteacher" is already backing off that statement-"I was sleepy-I said maybe someone did that blah blah"
Notice this has already disappeared from media
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Old 07-16-17, 05:25 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
I Like To Bike

Well we actually don't have any numbers-so everything I wrote
I mde up from whole cloth
One exception NBC-3 nights ago-said 800 bike deaths from cars per year
Now frankly-I have my doubts about that-
the 800 deaths were probably Total bike riding deaths-some of which are single vehicle-running

There really isn't any data on lane placement likelyhood(sic?) of injury-so I just made some up because i'm that kind of guy
But I told you it was made up,so..


I used 1000 bike car deaths per year(despite NBC claim of 800-because i like nice numbers)
I used 1,000,000,000 total hours riding at risk per year by using my roughly 300 hrs per year
and 3,000,000 riders-then I cheated-claimed 333 hours per rider-once again-nice number

Now 1 death per million hours at risk-frankly it seem low-but since I made it up
it would be roughly 1 death per 10,000,000 miles at risk(10 mph)-that seems low


FBinNY-yes I probably shouldn't have used this as an excuse to attack LC-but I couldn't resist
A experienced rider plops his inexperienced friend on a narrow mountain road-no shoulder
has his inexperienced friend ride FAR LEFT-
a position certain to piss someone off
and he records him
Who in the world would place an inexperienced ride in that position??

The driver-yeah it was 99.999% intentional
and the driver was an incompetent bully-he no doubt meant to crowd the riders over
typical bully type move
but he wasn't even competent enough to do that-
and sneaky SOB ran off-made up a laughable lie(they threw the bike at me)
Hey maybe this guy is a heavy user of something-opoids booze -
of course fair chance he is just an AH

Yeah he did it intentionally-and he left the scene-and he told a stupid lie
and it will cost him a large pile of $$-
maybe he will lose that shiny Volvo(maybe $45,000 new)-be reduced to a 1998 Suburban($2000)
Bet he dodges jail-mainly because no significant injury-
and jurors don't like bike riders-and won't be happy about the lane position
and the driver-will clean himself up
worked at a pricey private school-so safe bet he is a well spoken smooth lying SOB
No jail but plenty of $$

My suspicion is if this ever went to trial(it won't)
the driver's lawyer would show that video- and ask the experienced rider why in the world did he think it was a good idea to put his inexperienced buddy FAR LEFT on a narrow mountian road
And Video him??
The lawyer-if allowed-will suggest this was some sort of martyr to the cause "plan"
Jurors-all drivers-won't understand the lane position-they won't understand the why record
They will take it as meaning the riders were deliberately positioning themselves to create conflict
No way will any driver/juror on earth buy the LC VC controlling the lane is safer argument
heck I ride 1 hour/d for 50 years-I don't buy it-


Yes i do blame the experienced rider-yep I blame him-he is a fool
or worse he set his buddy up to be a martyr -
probably just a fool
but the GoPro at the ready suggests he knows drivers react poorly to that lane position but he put his buddy there anyway
Yes i am blaming the experienced rider
Yeah buddy is a jerk
he dangerously positioned his buddy-and recorded it-
That jerk KNEW he was putting his buddy at risk

Yeah they were legally positioned(but that will be argued)
Yes the driver intentionally hit the rider(might have been a bully move gone bad)-yes he left-yes he is a liar
yes he should go to jail(he won't)
But the experienced rider-jerk-and jurors(all drivers) would see it that way
If ya gonna have a rant, at least get your facts right. The Natchez Trace Parkway is NOT a narrow mountain road. It's a nice rolling road through some of the flattest countryside you are likely to encounter. Nice and wide, sweeping bends with mowed verges and good sight lines. A 40mph limit because it's a national park. I've never ridden along it, but I have driven it. If you were in a hurry, you wouldn't drive on it.
I'd consider it a perfect place to take a new rider for a spin.
Incidentally, if you're a fan of country/folk music, the Tallahassee Bridge is just off the Parkway.
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Old 07-16-17, 06:25 AM   #156
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I watched the video
2 lanes-no shoulder
40 mph with no shoulder-bad idea for an inexperienced rider
OK those rolling hills not mountains but close enough

Bobby Gentry-not a bad song

Last edited by phoebeisis; 07-16-17 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 07-16-17, 08:30 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
I watched the video
2 lanes-no shoulder
40 mph with no shoulder-bad idea for an inexperienced rider
OK those rolling hills not mountains but close enough

Bobby Gentry-not a bad song
The roads are also full of inexperienced drivers. What justifies road rage?
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Old 07-16-17, 09:53 AM   #158
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Hold on-
I didn't justify the driver- road rage texting etc ??
And I don't "know" that this is ROAD RAGE maybe he was "just" DRUNK/RIPPED/TEXTING ??
I would bet it was intentional -paypal(but a I would welch on the bet (welsh?)of course)
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Old 07-16-17, 11:15 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Hold on-
I didn't justify the driver- road rage texting etc ??
And I don't "know" that this is ROAD RAGE maybe he was "just" DRUNK/RIPPED/TEXTING ??
I would bet it was intentional -paypal(but a I would welch on the bet (welsh?)of course)
If you are still talking about the SUV driver featured in the OP video, I doubt he was drunk... or that charge too would have been added to the list of charges now pending.

Quote:
Charges include felony reckless endangerment, leaving the scene of an accident, failure to immediately notify of an accident and failure to render aid.
Man charged in Natchez Trace Parkway hit-and-run said cyclist 'threw the bike at his car'
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Old 07-16-17, 12:37 PM   #160
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genec-
Right I am just suggesting OTHER reasons he might have steered right into a rider.
And if he was drunk-drugged-it would explain his running.
I think the LEOs finally caught up with him many hours later(he used middle of the night-groggy as the explanation for his " maybe someone threw a bike at me" explanation)-
ha,ha pretty lame on both ends
Lame excuse for not stopping when you see a bike bounce off your fender
Lame excuse(I was sleepy) for giving such a lame excuse
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Old 07-16-17, 03:49 PM   #161
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Has there been federal charges against him yet?
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Old 07-17-17, 07:50 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
I watched the video
2 lanes-no shoulder
40 mph with no shoulder-bad idea for an inexperienced rider
OK those rolling hills not mountains but close enough

Bobby Gentry-not a bad song
Why is it a bad idea? The Trace has very low traffic volume, especially on a Saturday. Traffic near populated areas like Tupelo and Jackson MS are higher during morning and afternoon rush hour times, because people try to use the Trace to get around other roads. But this was well outside the Nashville metro area on a Saturday morning. Those riders probably saw few if any other motor vehicles out there prior to the incident.

As for whether he saw the guy, if he hadn't seen them he wouldn't have been halfway over the center line already.
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Old 07-17-17, 08:24 AM   #163
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I wonder about the REAL underlying cause of motorist's animosity towards road cyclists. The level of inconvenience caused by us is totally out of proportion to the response. I really think envy is a factor. They see us using "their" road and having fun. Motorists seem REALLY fixated on what we wear for some reason. They call us "Tour de France Wannabes". If they see a guy with a baseball hat, they don't call him a "Derek Jeter wannabe". Most road cyclists are not morbidly obese. Maybe that bothers them. Being in a cage is a miserable experience, and that probably puts them in a bad mood to begin with. It has to be something because most road cyclists I know defer to motor vehicles 99.9% of the time. By "defer", I mean cedeing their legal right out of a sense of courtesy and survival. Motorists have FAR bigger issues with other motorists than with us.
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Old 07-17-17, 08:34 AM   #164
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Being in a motor vehicle is not always miserable. I for one enjoy driving as long as it's not stop-and-go traffic. It could be simply that the motorist wants to drive fast(er) and yet has to slow down even for a few seconds. Even I get annoyed when an oblivious motorist pulls out from a driveway as I'm approaching (in my car) and have to slow down. But such is life. I certainly don't yell or flip people off or lash out about it.
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Old 07-17-17, 09:43 AM   #165
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Equinox-you wrote-the below
Being in a cage is a miserable experience, and that probably puts them in a bad mood to begin with. It has to be something because most road cyclists I know defer to motor vehicles 99.9% of the time. By "defer", I mean cedeing their legal right out of a sense of courtesy and survival. Motorists have FAR bigger issues with other motorists than with us.

I have to agree with PatrickGS- driving a car isn't miserable-certainly not that road-which as PatrickGS mentioned-Sat. am low traffic volume-pretty landscape- why would that be miserable?
Now commuting-heavy traffic both ways-time constraints-yeah miserable-

But USA 1950's-1960's type road trip-stopping side of road-pull out ice chest-cheese sandwich ham and Cheese mustard-cold coke or OJ- chocolate milk-grapes apples oranges good bread butter
stopping to walk dog at rest stops-talk to fellow dog/catg owners-while driving across the SW or NE east coast
Skyline drive Blue Ridge parkway
Sleep in back of vehicle(save money)
Yeah something to be said for car travel-actually seeing country-meeting strangers-pass time of day

Now the rest of your statement- defer to drivers ceding legal because of courtesy.survival
is right but incomplete
Mostly we FRAP because it costs us NOTHING- win win-
Yes LC/VCs will insist it is unsafe to FRAP
I will insist LC is more dangerous
None of us have actual data to back up our positions-so..
But it hardly matters since very very few folks LC position-
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Old 07-17-17, 01:18 PM   #166
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this post-has-a lot-of-hyphens-
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Old 07-17-17, 05:32 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by REDMASTA View Post
this post-has-a lot-of-hyphens-
#TypographyNazi

None of them should be hyphens....And one of them should instead be an en-dash...and all of the res should be em-dashes. Presuming you ignore the grammar nazi, and just are being a typography nazi.

Compare the hyphen, dash, n-dash and m-dash (ndash and mdash)
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Old 07-17-17, 05:43 PM   #168
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#TypographyNazi

None of them should be hyphens....And one of them should instead be an en-dash...and all of the res should be em-dashes. Presuming you ignore the grammar nazi, and just are being a typography nazi.

Compare the hyphen, dash, n-dash and m-dash (ndash and mdash)
at-least-2-characters
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Old 07-19-17, 07:47 AM   #169
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Ha-Ha
I-Like-To-Hyphen
forget about commas periods semi-colons upper case lower case grammar spelling
it gets your attention
works well enough to get you to read my early morning gibberish
I'm constantly being pestered by 3.5 cats and greyhound-hard to concentrate when a cat is tapping my arm-claws not retracted.
All in good fun-
I don't know what will happen to this driver.
If he is very affluent, then he will be a better result than he deserves.
Almost homicidal jerk
or distracted TEXTER
he deserves something memorable.
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Old 07-19-17, 08:37 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Equinox-you wrote-the below
Being in a cage is a miserable experience, and that probably puts them in a bad mood to begin with. It has to be something because most road cyclists I know defer to motor vehicles 99.9% of the time. By "defer", I mean cedeing their legal right out of a sense of courtesy and survival. Motorists have FAR bigger issues with other motorists than with us.

I have to agree with PatrickGS- driving a car isn't miserable-certainly not that road-which as PatrickGS mentioned-Sat. am low traffic volume-pretty landscape- why would that be miserable?
Now commuting-heavy traffic both ways-time constraints-yeah miserable-

But USA 1950's-1960's type road trip-stopping side of road-pull out ice chest-cheese sandwich ham and Cheese mustard-cold coke or OJ- chocolate milk-grapes apples oranges good bread butter
stopping to walk dog at rest stops-talk to fellow dog/catg owners-while driving across the SW or NE east coast
Skyline drive Blue Ridge parkway
Sleep in back of vehicle(save money)
Yeah something to be said for car travel-actually seeing country-meeting strangers-pass time of day

Now the rest of your statement- defer to drivers ceding legal because of courtesy.survival
is right but incomplete
Mostly we FRAP because it costs us NOTHING- win win-
Yes LC/VCs will insist it is unsafe to FRAP
I will insist LC is more dangerous
None of us have actual data to back up our positions-so..
But it hardly matters since very very few folks LC position-
I was driving in my village yesterday. The posted speed limit is 30mph, but everyone safely does 35mph. There was a car two vehicles in front of me doing 20. It didn't seem like anyone's head was exploding, no horns, no yelling, no obscene gestures. Why? Why are we more tolerant of other motor vehicles that cause substantial delays, but we can't abide a bicycle for 5 seconds?
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Old 07-19-17, 09:45 AM   #171
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It was remakable how people were able to come up with such impassioned opinions based on a very short video clip. The bicyclist was holding up traffic. His friend was a jerk. He shouldn't have been riding there. I can't tell which vehicle beeped at them. There are so many unkowns that it's really hard to make deductions. We don't know anything about the vehicle that hit him. Was the driver speeding? All these assumptions based on a clip that shows very little besides a car hitting a cyclist and fleeing from the scene.
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Old 07-19-17, 10:50 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
It was remakable how people were able to come up with such impassioned opinions based on a very short video clip. The bicyclist was holding up traffic. His friend was a jerk. He shouldn't have been riding there. I can't tell which vehicle beeped at them. There are so many unkowns that it's really hard to make deductions. We don't know anything about the vehicle that hit him. Was the driver speeding? All these assumptions based on a clip that shows very little besides a car hitting a cyclist and fleeing from the scene.
That alone IS a crime, and really all you need to know.

I don't care what happened before... hit and run is an offense itself.
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Old 07-19-17, 11:19 AM   #173
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That alone IS a crime, and really all you need to know.

I don't care what happened before... hit and run is an offense itself.
What's sad is that's often the only reason a motorist is charged in a crash with a cyclist. If they stop and render aid, often there's no penalty at all, or if so it's very minor.
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Old 07-19-17, 11:28 AM   #174
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That alone IS a crime, and really all you need to know.

I don't care what happened before... hit and run is an offense itself.
I agree completely.
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Old 07-19-17, 11:32 AM   #175
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Right
If there is an accident-
and the motorist stops renders aid
isn't drunk drugged wasn't distracted in some way that can be demonstrated
It is considered not intentional-just a screw up-humans screw up all the time.
Most screw ups aren't crimes-even when someone is injured.
Only remedy for screw up of that sort is $$$.
Now this motorist claims he was unaware that he hit someone-so he didn't knowingly "leave the scene"
Now I find that unlikely-but I won't be on the jury(and there won't be any trial anyway).
Fair chance he is just $$$ punished.
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