Dchiefransom

It really IS dangerous out there. We could be riding along, in the bike lane, or in a WOL, maybe offroad, enjoying the beautiful day and waving at all the good looking guys/gals in cars around us, when the next thing ya know a small asteroid comes whizzing down and strikes us dead.
It's just a matter of accepting that some of the things we do have risk. Why, just the other day my friend and I were talking about trying cordless bungie jumping.

womble

Penguin snipers. Don't forget the dangers of penguin snipers.

genec

RE "cordless bungee jumping:"

Roody

NOT so true. People always talk about "3000 pounds of steel versus 30 pounds of steel." And they say, "At least in a car accident, you have 3000 pounds of steel protecting you, but in a bike you have no protection." Also, NOT so true.

Actually, most auto accident victims are killed or injured by the steel and other materials in their own car. The car stops suddenly in a crash. The human bodies continue to fly through space at 55 mph until they hit that 3000 pounds of steel. Usually with their skulls. Many times the cyclist is in a better position to survive. The bike stops suddenly in a crash. The human body continues to fly through space at 20 mph until it hits the car or the pavement, often at a glancing angle and often with a large portion of the lower body.

The point is, if you are afraid to cycle in traffic, you should be even more afraid to motor in it.

sbhikes

Bikes don't have anti-lock breaks, air bags, seat belts or wind shields. Someone on a bike or motorcycle is likely to get more hurt in an accident with a car (or how about a swarm of bees?) than the car driver will. That doesn't guarantee you will get hurt, or that the driver will not. Please tell me some real stats showing drivers get more injured than bicyclists when they collide with each other.

genec

Tend to agree here and also feel that this modern technology also contributes a "sense of invulnurablity" to drivers... motorists tend to push their vehicles just a bit harder and are more isolated from their driving environment... windows are rolled up, AC is on, the driver has on sound systems and cell phone, power steering and brakes and therefore is only minimumly connected to the driving environment by vision... through tinted glass. Distract that driver by any means you can visually, 'cause that is the only way you are going to get their attention in their steel cocoons.

Portis

I have said for a long time that it is not the driver's fault in a lot of cases. The fault lies with the windshield. I know that sounds strange, but think about it. Think about it the next time you are in your car. You are so insulated from the outside that you have absolutely ZERO concept of the velocity you are traveling at.

Every time i see some little old lady squeeze by me on the road, i know that she is not some deranged killer. She simply has no idea what is going on as she goes down the road. Take out her windshield and let her get a better perspective of what is going on. Then she might think a bit before she slings that 2,000 missile within inches of your bike.

I know that their are evil drivers out there, but i have always contended that most are just ignorant. They can't share our perspective of force and power that a vehicle presents as it travels down the road at speeds as slow as 40 mph. They should make everyone drive a car without a windshield at least once to understand the vehicle and the responsibilities that go along with it.

HiYoSilver

NHSA has all the accident data you want. Besides auto and truck they also have motor vehicles vs cyclists. Just do a google on highway safety and a year.

The driving force behind the current US fear mentality is the assumption that life in this current body is all there is and after that is nothing. If this is all there is and there is nothing beyond, then most of us would want to extend this life as long as possible.
If, however, this life is training wheels for an extended life beyond this body and this time/space continum, then people can live the time in this body with hope and joy.

If you are mastered by fear, then your soul mate is the 60's back yard bunker survivalist. If you master your fears and dare to hope, then for everything there is a season. Just don't let others manipulate you with their fears and squash your joy of living life now.

For me, I'm not redigging that back yard bunker. I'll be out there enjoying the ride.
Fear or hope, I choose hope. This is just as realistic as saying I'm safer on a bike than on a motor cycle. There are avoidable risks, unavoidable risk, and some risks that depend on the situation. Cycle as safely as possible by dropping the unavoidable risks, but after you face the ying of fear, don't forget to embrace the yang of hope.

pletcgm

I'll say this, I have only ridden a few miles this year on the road. I am now doing mostly mountain biking. Earlier this year, I have noticed so much of an increase of cars which are barely stopping at lights and stop signs. I can't even begin to count the number of times I thought I was going to be broadsided in my car from people who have not hit the brakes until almost at the stop sign. It looks like they are going to not even stop. This I see all the time now. I am like, if I am being so scared in my car by this, I am definitely not getting back on the road with my bicycle. I'll stick with mountain biking!

Everyone is in such a rush anymore....and why???? Since I bought my new car last fall, I have driven pretty conservatively. Because of this, I have people mad at me all the time. It's so stupid. Life goes by so fast already, why make it seem even faster?

Roody

I never said drivers get more injured than bicyclists when they collide with each other. My point was that the idea that an auto provides safety is illusory. You may feel more vulnerable on a bike, but this not always the real case. I recently hit debris and fell off my bike going about 25 mph. I rolled on the pavement and was banged up pretty badly. I wasn't even wearing my helmet. I'm OK now. My 2 sons were in a car accident. They were going to the store, 25 mph on a residential side street, lost control on black ice and hit a tree. They both were cut out of their seatbelts, the air bags had deployed properly. One will possibly never fully recover. The 3000 pounds of steel, ABS, seatbelts and airbags did nothing to protect them.

Again, if you're too scared to ride a bike, you should also be too scared to ride in a car. Personally, I still feel OK doing both.

lilHinault

If car accidents were played up as much as bike accidents, no one would get near the things. We should be so lucky!!

The USA is a fear-dominated society, it's been so for at least 100 years, far of the Commies, fear of the Hun (Germans in ww1) fear of the Nazis (kinda rational, that one) far of the Commies again, fear fear fear. I think the actual rate of child abuctions is lower than it's been in the past, but the fear of it happening is way off the scale compared to the past.

And keep in mind, bikers are "the threat of a good example", if people in any numbers realize how healthful and money-saving riding a bike can be as opposed to taking a car everywhere, the auto co's are in deep ****, and they're already slowly proceeding up **** creek.

I myself have been in some epic biffs on motorcycles, and one bicycle accident I don't remember. I'd have been hurt worse in a car in a few of those cases, much worse. In all those cases, I only broke bones once, and that was a few ribs, so I was out of work for a week and it only hurt when I laughed, sneezed, coughed, got into bed, got out of bed, etc etc well, really, people get messed up in cars much worse all the time.

And, more bikers on the streets, more fellow bikers watching out, will in the future make it safer. Car drivers will be more used to seeing us, a helping hand will almost always be there, and aggro yahoos will be much less likely to do crazy stuff.

Just keep on keeping on.

Longhorn

I'm so sorry to hear about your sons and hope both are eventually fully recovered.

genec

Hey pletcgm... glad to see my firewalls working... your ip reporter doesn't show my ip adder correctly.

timmhaan

i probably didn't explain well enough what i was thinking. certainly we all know that road cyclists make mistakes and cause accidents. let's say that on average a road biker makes the same number of mistakes as a mountain biker. who is likely to get a scraped knee and who is likely to end up in a coffin? the severity of making a mistake on a road bike leads to the perception that it's more dangerous. and i argue that it is, because not only do you have the risk of making your own mistakes but you also have the added risk of other people making mistakes. you can argue VC all day long, and the stats will probably back you up, but i'd be interested to see the difference in fatailities between off-road biking and on-road. anyone have info like that? my hunch is the same as rangers - that it's less dangerous.

skanking biker

"Safety" is an illusion. It does not exist in man's natural state and the concept is not compatible with human nature. The only way to ensure safety is to remove free will. So your choice is to be free and vulerable, or be "safe" and have no liberty. The two are not compatible. Just remeber, even when you are "safe," you are at the mercy of those providing the security.

noisebeam

Of course. I think cycling is a safe activity, never said otherwise. I just get a little anoyed when folks say its risky like anything else in life, like getting hit by an astroid, etc. Because there are things the individual can do to significantly lower the risk and there are things that society could do to reduce the hazards on the road. So instead of only saying its just life, do it and enjoy (but this must be said) one should also help contribute to make it a lower risk activity - but if folks say don't worry, enjoy, that to me takes away any reason to work to make it safer, when in fact there is room for improvement.

Al

noisebeam

What kind if BS is this? The majority of my safety comes from my control, my free will.
Al

skanking biker

U can increase your personal security by modifying your behavior, true. But you can never remove the possibily that some randon act of violence will befall you---like some motorsit running you down for no reason or kids attacking you with bats just to have fun.--QED, you can only be truly safe by removing others' free will and preventing them from harming others.

samundsen

I'm more afraid of driving than I am of riding a bike. I haven't had an accident on a bike since I was a kid (riding too fast and hit another kid, no-one hurt). Now I am 33, and ride everyday.

I've been in two car accidents, both of them my own fault. Drove off a mountain road in winter. Speed was slow, and no injuries to either car or myself, but I misjudged how slippery the road was.
The second time I drove off the road in a minivan with my whole family in it, going 70mph on an interstate. Car was totalled. No-one was injured, but this scared me so much I pretty much stopped driving alltogether. I feel there are too many risks involved when driving, and the speeds are too high. I used to do cross-country trips in car all the time, but haven't done so since the last accident. I'm even nervous as a passenger in a car too, I feel most people are overconfident when they drive, and take way too many unnecessary risks.

I feel much safer on my bike. My normal cruising speed is 15-18mph. I do ride in traffic, but choose side roads as much as possible. I never ride without a helmet, and wear hi-visibility clothing.

Map tester

Thoughts along these lines have been running through my head in the last few days. This summer my 12 year old son is ridding with me to my work. I am very proud that he is able to ride with me and keep up our 11 mile one way commute with no problem (he is not an sport-inclined boy). I discuss any section that might be difficult with him before we get there. He handles riding in traffic well--the cars don't freak him out. But in the back of my mind, I ask myself sometimes: "what am I doing putting him at risk?" But then I think about all the kids not getting any exercise or thinking that the only way to get around is by car, and I think I am doing the right thing. I can't keep him inside the house and away from life forever. All I can do is to try to use what street-smarts I have to keep us both safe. If I think he is getting tired on the way home, we will take a route that doesn't have as many car-bike interactions and maybe take a few breaks to rest.

To sum it up, I'll answer the question "are we ever really safe?" with the answer: "no, we are not ever really safe. We have the ability to decrease the chances of injury or accident by using our heads as we go about our daily lives." Life is full of risks and I want my son to know you can ride your bike every day and enjoy life to the fullest.

I'll get off my soapbox now....

Portis

Very well said.

noisebeam

This is a good point as well. I unfortunately can not use side roads to get to/from work. I use the exact same high speed dense traffic roads I would use when driving to/from work. So I must ride among those same over confident drivers that take too many risks (i.e. trying to make left turn in small gap, a quick tight merge just to avoid a bus, etc.) I see 'fresh' - aka just happened car-car accidents at least twice a month, sometimes more, always at intersections*, usually with cars sideways in middle of intersection, sometimes one slid all the way into sidewalk often with major damage. I assume most are from red light running and agressive or careless left turning. I do think about these intersections many times when I drive my car thru them, not knowing which left turner may suddenly pull in front of me. On my bike I watch 'em also, but feel like I can take evasive manevuers better, but have had quite a few folks turn right in front of me - I too wear hi-vis gear and ride in center of right most lane and look right at the eyes of folks preparing for left turns, ready to anticipate any bad move on their part.

*Phoenix has the highest death rate in the nation due to red light running at 11/100k people in 6yr period. Memphis is second worst with a rate of 8/100k. Accident rates are also top 10.

Al

HiYoSilver

Here is a very interesting article about the risks of life:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/Com..._21_05_EF.html

Noisebeam,
the only advantage of looking in their eyes, is to see if they are signaling a movement. I would be extra cautious at intersections in your city with the proven low skill levels of drivers. I always let a motor tank move first into the intersection and then follow.

genec

I don't know about you guys, but at 18MPH "looking into their eyes" can be quite difficult... and if they are wearing sun glasses or are behind tinted windows... forget it. I am lucky to see if they are looking in my direction.

noisebeam

Agreed there is minor help in looking at eyes, really I don't see eyes anyway with windshield glare, distance, etc. But it provides a focus for me to really watch for any signs of a sudden turn.

I don't get what you mean about letting motor tank move first into intersection? These are cars coming the other way that are trying to make a left turn across my path. They line up in left turn lane and gun it as soon as they see even the smallest gap in opposing traffic to make their left turn, often with bad judgement - and worse since I am a small bike in the center of the far right lane, with two other same direction lanes to my left. Another big issue is if one leading driver does see me, but decides to cut in front of me anyway, they may actually clear me, but often the driver right behind them choses to follow blindly.

Al