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Old 07-13-05, 08:18 AM   #1
geeklpc1985
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Well on my way into work today, I caught a moped on the trail, I told him to get off the trail he didn't say a word and keeped going, I turn around to get his plate number but he quicly made a get away at high speed. This is the second time that I have seen the same guy. When I have the day off I think I going to bring my camra to get him. This was at 6:00 am on the Captial City Bike Path, by Jon Nolen Dr. (Madison, WI). The first time was at 4:00 pm on my way home, looks like he has the same time frame as me.

Anyone has anymore ideas to help me?

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Old 07-13-05, 08:35 AM   #2
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I would just take the picture and mail it to the police, if I am right bike paths are just another form of a limited access highway, but instead of only moter veicals alowed they are prohibited, and only non-moter veicals are alowed. Also make sure to turn on the feature where the time and date will be stamped onto the picture also.
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Old 07-13-05, 08:37 AM   #3
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Increasing numbers of motorized vehicles are appearing on multi-use paths in my hood.. First it was kids on electric scooters, them gas scooters. Last week I almost got smoked by this lady using a golf-cart type thing to carry her and her kids at high speed around a corner.

As people get lazier and lazier, it should come as no suprise that even urban recreation has to be motorized. And of course if someone can cut down their commute time, anything is fair game for them.

Last edited by ghettocruiser; 07-13-05 at 08:38 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-13-05, 09:57 AM   #4
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$70 fine for first offense in Beaufort County, SC. Double fine for 2nd offense, confiscation of offending equipment and $400 fine for the 3rd offense.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:29 AM   #5
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This is somewhat mean-spirited but I have the same problem with people in motorized wheelchairs. What about "no motorized vehicles" is unclear? There ARE non-motorized wheelchairs... I can only imagine the squawking if anyone ever complained though.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:48 AM   #6
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I don't really have much problem with electric motors since they tend to be somewhat noiseless. I see electric wheelchairs (and electric bikes) all the time on the path. I don't mind it since they seem to at least keep to the right lane, aren't dangerously speedy, and aren't noisy.

gas motors though.... We got enuf on the roads.
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Old 07-13-05, 10:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenyBen
I don't really have much problem with electric motors since they tend to be somewhat noiseless. I see electric wheelchairs (and electric bikes) all the time on the path. I don't mind it since they seem to at least keep to the right lane, aren't dangerously speedy, and aren't noisy.

gas motors though.... We got enuf on the roads.
That is beside the point, most MUT have signs that read no motor vehicles on them, and when you take motor vehicles on them you are breaking the law, be it electrical or gas. And the law should be either enforced, or if people believe they are wrong then work on changing the laws.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpop
That is beside the point, most MUT have signs that read no motor vehicles on them, and when you take motor vehicles on them you are breaking the law, be it electrical or gas. And the law should be either enforced, or if people believe they are wrong then work on changing the laws.
Sorry, I think I must have misread this. You're really advocating fining people in electric wheelchairs for travelling on MUTs?
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Old 07-13-05, 11:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpop
That is beside the point, most MUT have signs that read no motor vehicles on them, and when you take motor vehicles on them you are breaking the law, be it electrical or gas. And the law should be either enforced, or if people believe they are wrong then work on changing the laws.

Aren't there laws on this kind of things. I may be wrong on this, but I beleive "motor vehicles" means a motor vehicle that can go faster then 30mph.

If they made an electric bike that could go 50mph, you'd probably need to get a license for it.

I can't seem to find answers on the subject over the net.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:12 AM   #10
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yeah....I saw this old guy from a retirement condo complex come out on a golf cart, jimmy rigged up with a homemade canopy (wood planks and tarp), barreling through, bellowing his cigar smoke behind him. He was just jammin down the trail looking at all the girls running/cycling.

My problem lately has been with park officials (trail maintenance, etc...). They come by and have accidentally run me off the road ("Ooops...sorry") a few times.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:15 AM   #11
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Saw a Segway on the bike path last Sunday. I think they're fine along with motorized wheelchairs for those who are elderly and those who, for whatever reason, can't walk far or ride a bike. Gasoline engines are never necessary for this use however.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:20 AM   #12
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Golf carts are motor vehicles. Electric or gas powered scooters are motor vehicles. Electric wheelchairs are not.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettocruiser
First it was kids on electric scooters.
I see plenty of kids on these, too. This weekend I spotted an adult happily piloting a
scooter like this in a bike lane. He was, of course, riding against traffic.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpop
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenyBen
I don't really have much problem with electric motors since they tend to be somewhat noiseless. I see electric wheelchairs (and electric bikes) all the time on the path. I don't mind it since they seem to at least keep to the right lane, aren't dangerously speedy, and aren't noisy.
That is beside the point, most MUT have signs that read no motor vehicles on them, and when you take motor vehicles on them you are breaking the law, be it electrical or gas. And the law should be either enforced, or if people believe they are wrong then work on changing the laws.
In may cases the "no motorized vehicles" edict is merely a policy, and doesn't have the force of law. In addition, it's unlikely that a motorized wheelchair fits the legal definition of a motorized vehicle... technicalities aside.
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Old 07-13-05, 11:56 AM   #15
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Next time ,do not say anything to him just call the cops give the time and liscense #and location .Maybe they will get smart and lay in wait and catch the guy.He does not seem to be deterred by you.I am surprised the path is not patrolled by bicycle cops.Mopeds electric and gas scooters ,& Golf carts do not belong.the golf cart seems especially dangerous.
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Old 07-13-05, 12:14 PM   #16
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Most state/city laws are written to clearly define what consistute 'non-motorized' or 'bicycle-like' or 'human powered' vehicle. Sign postings by MUPs use the term 'non-motorized' in a non-legal way - refer to the laws to get the real definitions. I would be confident to say that motorized wheelchairs are allowed legally and should be if a MUP.

For example in AZ from Title 28 Definitions :
6. "Bicycle" means a device, including a racing wheelchair, that is propelled by human power and on which a person may ride and that has either:
(a) Two tandem wheels, either of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.
(b) Three wheels in contact with the ground, any of which is more than sixteen inches in diameter.

20. "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two nontandem wheeled device with an electric propulsion system that limits the maximum speed of the device to fifteen miles per hour or less and that is designed to transport only one person.

23. "Golf cart" means a motor vehicle that has not less than three wheels in contact with the ground, that has an unladen weight of less than one thousand eight hundred pounds, that is designed to be and is operated at not more than twenty-five miles per hour and that is designed to carry not more than four persons including the driver.

30. "Moped" means a bicycle that is equipped with a helper motor if the vehicle has a maximum piston displacement of fifty cubic centimeters or less, a brake horsepower of one and one-half or less and a maximum speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less on a flat surface with less than a one per cent grade.

32. "Motor vehicle":

(a) Means either:
(i) A self-propelled vehicle.
(ii) For the purposes of the laws relating to the imposition of a tax on motor vehicle fuel, a vehicle that is operated on the highways of this state and that is propelled by the use of motor vehicle fuel.
(b) Does not include a motorized wheelchair, an electric personal assistive mobility device or a motorized skateboard. For the purposes of this subdivision:
(i) "Motorized skateboard" means a self-propelled device that has a motor, a deck on which a person may ride and at least two tandem wheels in contact with the ground.
(ii) "Motorized wheelchair" means a self-propelled wheelchair that is used by a person for mobility.

40. "Pedestrian" means any person afoot. A person who uses an electric personal assistive mobility device or a manual or motorized wheelchair is considered a pedestrian unless the manual wheelchair qualifies as a bicycle. For the purposes of this paragraph, "motorized wheelchair" means a self-propelled wheelchair that is used by a person for mobility.

(then read the rest of Title 28 to see where and what laws do and do not apply.)

Al

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Old 07-13-05, 12:29 PM   #17
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I think I've seen that guy before. I take that path every day, usually at about 6:45 - 7:15am out of the city and somewhere between 4 and 5:30pm into the city. At what times do you see him going in what directions? I've only seen him twice, it might've beern on days when I left home or work abnormally early.

Also, there aren't any clear signs on the path that say that you can't do that. Maybe we should check the statutes.
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Old 07-13-05, 01:00 PM   #18
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In the morring he is coming from John Nolen Dr. at night he is going to John Nolen Dr. It is marked on the street sign that says "Captial City Trail NO MOTORIZED VEHICLE"

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Old 07-13-05, 02:33 PM   #19
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It's definitely against the rules, too. Statute 346.79(5)
"No person may ride a moped or motor bicycle with the power unit in operation upon a bicycle way."

Perhaps I haven't seen him, though. I've seen a guy on the bike path that is between John Nolen and Lake Monona, but not really on the Capital City bike path proper. I think. I don't know the names too well. I come from the city and go under the beltline, then turn on Industrial Drive to go to work. I'm pretty sure the Capital City path starts right there on the other side of Industrial Drive.
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Old 07-19-05, 09:16 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpop
That is beside the point, most MUT have signs that read no motor vehicles on them, and when you take motor vehicles on them you are breaking the law, be it electrical or gas. And the law should be either enforced, or if people believe they are wrong then work on changing the laws.
So are electric wheelchairs, motor vehicles?

But then again in some areas pushbike are allow to be ridden on the sidewalks (footpths) even those they would be classed as legal road vehicles like cars.
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Old 07-19-05, 09:29 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwv
So are electric wheelchairs, motor vehicles?

But then again in some areas pushbike are allow to be ridden on the sidewalks (footpths) even those they would be classed as legal road vehicles like cars.
I would consider an electric wheelchair as a pedestrian unless the thing is souped up to run at high speed. I would even consider those electric carts (the 3 wheeled thing lots of people use to get around in my office building) as a pedestrian. Their speeds are comparable to the speeds of other users of the MUP. A moped could go upwards of 30-40 mph. That's too fast for a MUP. (Even 15-20 mph on a bike feels dangerous on those paths when there is any traffic at all).
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Old 07-19-05, 09:39 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwv
So are electric wheelchairs, motor vehicles?

But then again in some areas pushbike are allow to be ridden on the sidewalks (footpths) even those they would be classed as legal road vehicles like cars.
I posted the law definitions for Arizona above.
Read #20, #32 and #40 and you have the answers for that state. (Basically motorized wheelchairs are pedestrians unless they go over 15mph) I'd bet your local/state/region laws are also on line for you to learn.

Al
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Old 07-19-05, 11:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenyBen
Aren't there laws on this kind of things. I may be wrong on this, but I beleive "motor vehicles" means a motor vehicle that can go faster then 30mph.
My bike goes over 30mph without too much difficulty.
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Old 07-19-05, 11:36 AM   #24
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You're a motor!
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Old 07-19-05, 11:46 AM   #25
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Does that mean I'm banned from MUPs? (of course I refrain from sprinting on the paths (usually))

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