Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-25-02, 08:52 AM   #1
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First time screaming

For the first time last night, I screamed/sweared a guy driving a car.

I was coming down the hill (Cote-des-Neiges) at about 50kph when a guy making a left pulled right in front of me, I missed him by about 4 or 5 feet. Hard to tell, it happened so fast. I knew where the street he turned onto went, so I went to the light that he was surely stopped at and asked him if he ever looks in both English and French. All he could say that was he didn't see me. How many people will he not see and kill? Maybe I should have taken his liscence plate number.
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:19 AM   #2
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This one is tricky, because you were 100% in the right, but the end result is that you might get killed. Happens to motorcyclists all the time.

I'm really sorry this happened, it's happened to me, too. "I didn't see you" can sometimes mean, "I wasn't paying enough attention."

Be careful, man!
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:29 AM   #3
mechBgon
Senior Member
 
mechBgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 6,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad you're ok. Here's another stunt to watch out for: people cutting you off by turning from lanes that are only allowed to go straight. There is a one-way 4-lane street in my downtown area that I used to travel quite a bit, and I've seen people make left turns from ALL of the four lanes, although only the leftmost lane is permitted to turn (because that lane has the option to go straight also, no other lane may turn across it).

It pays to watch where the motorists just ahead of you in other lanes are looking, because it gives clues about what they're planning to do, including cutting you off.
mechBgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:37 AM   #4
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Bikes:
Posts: 12,923
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My worst ever was when I was descending a steep hill with lots of bends.
A guy in a big white van is at a turning on my right (==USA left), signalling to make a nearside turn up the hill.
He pulls out, then drives up the hill ON MY SIDE. He didnt even notice when I shouted at him.
MichaelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:39 AM   #5
chewa
The Flying Scot
 
chewa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Queensferry Scotland and London (and France)
Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more
Posts: 1,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Spire
All he could say that was he didn't see me.
He didn't see you because he didn't look. It's no excuse.
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
chewa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:41 AM   #6
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is very possible that he didn't see you. It so easy to NOT see a bicycle or motorcycle. You could have been in a blind spot in front of him, that being the windshield/roof post. A pencil is almost big enough to block the view of a bicycle. Hold a finger up at arms length and see how much it can block. It's pretty scarey.
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 01:46 PM   #7
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Bikes: My beloved 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and my 2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod
Posts: 16,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
This happens to cyclists too often. Someone is turning left or pulling out of a driveway and they "don't see you". As Pete said, they weren't "paying enough attention."
Sometimes I think they see us but think, "it's only some idiot on a bicycle", and they pull out or make their turn with no thought about the possible consequences.
This is why someone needs to invent a handlebar mounted rocket launcher!!
__________________


The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. - Psalm 103:8
RonH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 02:05 PM   #8
1oldRoadie
Oh God, He's back!
 
1oldRoadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Bikes: Paramount
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
As an ex over the road truck driver, I have to tell you that you must forgive the stupid......you have no choice.....there are to many of them and not enough bullets.
__________________
I can't ride and Frown!
1oldRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 02:28 PM   #9
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by 1oldRoadie
As an ex over the road truck driver, I have to tell you that you must forgive the stupid......you have no choice.....there are to many of them and not enough bullets.
This is also very true.
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-02, 09:20 PM   #10
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When translated from political correctness into factual accuracy, in 95% of cases, "I didn't see you" means "I wasn't paying attention because I'm an ignorant f*ck with an IQ so low I have to dig for it." Unfortunately, we have to put up with these twats time and again. I generally carry around a certain amount of anti-motorist bigotry when I ride.

I'm not talking about taking extreme measures like trying to assault motorists or anything, just the presumption of stupidity. Idiots are easier to deal with when you are expecting them.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 10:07 AM   #11
RonH
Life is good
 
RonH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Not far from the Withlacoochee Trail. 🚴🏻
Bikes: My beloved 2001 Litespeed Tuscany and my 2014 Cannondale SuperSix EVO Hi-Mod
Posts: 16,289
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by RonH
Sometimes I think they see us but think, "it's only some idiot on a bicycle", and they pull out or make their turn with no thought about the possible consequences.
The reason I made this comment is because this happened to me about a week ago.
I was coming home from my Saturday ride. I was about a mile from home and was passing a supermarket. A car was about to pull out of the parking lot but the driver stopped when he saw me. Then at the last minute he decided to pull out anyway. I had to brake and swerve a little to avoid a crash. I made my feelings known to him loud and clear!!
I know this jerk saw me but he probably thought, "it's only some idiot on a bicycle", and pulled out in front of me anyway.

Perhaps he has seen other cyclists shoot through red lights without stopping, or cut him off, or had an unpleasant encounter with a cyclist. That's no excuse for his stupid stunts!!

In some cases it may be a matter of stupidity or it may be just an attitude problem.
Unfortunately we must constantly be on the lookout for these bozos. :irritated
__________________


The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy. - Psalm 103:8

Last edited by RonH; 07-26-02 at 10:13 AM.
RonH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 10:31 AM   #12
RegularGuy
I am a lonely visitor
 
RegularGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Where even Richard Nixon has got soul
Bikes: Michelle Pfieffer, the Carbon Fiber Wonder Bike: A Kestrel 200 SCI Repainted in glorious mango; Old Paintless, A Litespeed Obed; The Bike With No Name: A Bianchi Eros; RegularBike: A Parkpre Comp Ltd rebuilt as a singlespeed.
Posts: 2,630
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was lugging uphill, getting ready to turn into the hospital parking lot. I was wearing a bright jersey and signalling a left turn as clearly as a guy with skinny arms can. The woman in the car, watching for a chance to turn left out of the parking lot, looked right at me.

Right at me.

Then she looked to the left. Then she looked at me again. By this time I had begun to swing into the parking lot. I clearly had the legal right of way. I would have sworn that she saw me. She started to pull out. I was directly in her path. I hollered "WATCH IT!"

She hit the brakes hard and made this face: . As I pulled along side her car, I looked her in the eye and shook my head.

It's amazing how, in their self-contained automotive biospheres, they can look and not see. We need to ride defensively.
__________________
Religion is a good thing for good people and a bad thing for bad people. --H. Richard Niebuhr
RegularGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 12:53 PM   #13
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know some folks are probably tired of hearing me say this, but
this is why I keep a whistle in my teeth. There are times that a
motorist must be reminded of my presence, especially when
they "can't see me."

It's not just a theory. I have used my whistle many times to "wake up" a driver, possibly preventing a collision (with me.)
It just pays to have more than one way of attracting attention to yourself.
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 03:48 PM   #14
Andy Dreisch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 940
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I expect a driver to not see me, though a vast majority do. (I'm lit up like a Las Vegas casino). I then expect a driver to misjudge my speed. They regularly do this because they can't conceive of someone on a bike going as fast as I do. (They only have their recreational, weekend bike rides to serve as a guide of a biker's speed.)

This, I believe, is the root cause of "right hooks" and other such events. They simply misjudge the distance that separates us. I've even seen people turn around (or look in the mirror), see me approaching fast, and still make that right hook turn. They've committed to the turn in their mind based on the factors they're aware of at the time of their decision and are unable to reconsider quickly enough the additional variable of a bicyclist.

As cyclists we have two options:[list=1][*]Pray for remarkable improvements in driver skills through awareness programs and the like[*]Ride defensively[/list=1]I'll keep with #2. It's a safer bet.
Andy Dreisch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 04:21 PM   #15
1oldRoadie
Oh God, He's back!
 
1oldRoadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Bikes: Paramount
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
One other thing that can be done is "eye contact". If you can acquire eye contact with the driver they have to acknowledge your existence. Well he11, they should, at least you have a little more hope.
__________________
I can't ride and Frown!
1oldRoadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 06:33 PM   #16
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 17,046
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Since motorists generally underestimate a bicyclist's speed, use low gears, maintain a high crank cadence, and never coast unless you are actually decelerating to a stop.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-02, 11:58 PM   #17
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by 1oldRoadie
One other thing that can be done is "eye contact". If you can acquire eye contact with the driver they have to acknowledge your existence. Well he11, they should, at least you have a little more hope.
Doesn't always work. Ever tried to make eye-contact with a total psycho? I have, and trust me, it's less than totally effective.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-02, 11:04 PM   #18
Dutchy
We drive on the left.
 
Dutchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Since motorists generally underestimate a bicyclist's speed, use low gears, maintain a high crank cadence
I normally pedal at 95-107rpm and it doesn't seem to have any affect on people turning in front of me across traffic.

Quote:
Doesn't always work. Ever tried to make eye-contact with a total psycho? I have, and trust me, it's less than totally effective.
It's also hard to make eye contact when wearing sun glasses. Either way it is the drivers responsibility to check ALL blind spots if they cannot see clearly.

The most dangerous thing for me while riding is people turning in front of me across traffic, either they refuse to give way or are just plain stupid and underestimate my speed. The other problem is drivers doing a U bolt in front of me and then proceeding to enter the lane without giving way. On numerous occasion's I have passed cars re-entering the lane because they haven't given way. I always give these idiots a good stare into their drivers window.

On Monday (my first ride in the city for two months) a lady driving toward me was waiting to do a U bolt, she saw me and stopped, then proceeded to go, then stopped again when she realised I was doing ~50kph. I was already covering the brakes, but I still would have gone in hard if she hadn't stopped. I went past her and yelled "use your eyes", she then passed me and started abusing me like I had done something wrong?

I swear one day I am going to loose total control, if I ever get hit by another car. Just get up off the ground, dust myself off and throw my MTB straight down the side of their car. Am I the only one who feels this way.

Recently in a similar situation the female driver was waving to me to come and punch her one, like in the Matrix where Keanu waves to the bad guy to start a fight. I just pointed to her numberplate and mouthed the letters so she thought I was memorising the number, she backed off.

SERENITY NOW!
SERENITY NOW!

CHEERS.

Mark

Sorry for the rant!

Last edited by Dutchy; 07-30-02 at 11:11 PM.
Dutchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-02, 03:39 AM   #19
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Dutchy
I just pointed to her numberplate and mouthed the letters so she thought I was memorising the number, she backed off.
Now there's a useful idea. Mind if I borrow it sometime?
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-02, 01:00 PM   #20
webist
Huachuca Rider
 
webist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bikes: Fuji CCR1, Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Some of the attitude no doubt comes from a conscious or unconscious evaluation of the relative size of the cyclist vs the motorist. They "see" but do not comprehend. They do not perceive any obvious danger to themselves.

There are many thousands of vehicle accidents every day. Most do not involve cyclists. Can anyone here imagine an accident involving a left turn crossing the right of way of through traffic where the illegal left turn person says:

"Sure officer, I saw him. Sure, I knew the left turn arrow was red. Yes, I fully realized that if I made that turn it was likely to cause the other car to hit me."

I think not. Far more likely: "I don't really know what happened officer. I guess I didn't see him or the light or something. This has never happened to me before."

Inattention, carelessness whatever, those kind of people are going to hit something eventually. Probability suggests that occasionally it will be a cyclist.

Then too, Im curious how many times the cyclist says "Yes officer, I saw the red light and the traffic passing through with the right of way and ........ Of course the careless cyclist is much more likely not to be able to speak to the cop after an accident.

Carl
__________________
Just Peddlin' Around
webist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-02, 02:15 PM   #21
bikenriden
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Warren, PA
Bikes:
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Dutchy

I swear one day I am going to loose total control, if I ever get hit by another car. Just get up off the ground, dust myself off and throw my MTB straight down the side of their car. Am I the only one who feels this way.
No you are not. I ride both bicycle and motorcycle and am of the conviction that it doesn't matter how much PR and smiles we flash at the public to raise cycling awareness, the idiots will remain idiots. I am all for road etiquette while on the bike until someone pulls a moronic move that puts my safety in jeopardy; once that line has been crossed I'm done with the PR.

Some will say that getting angry could get you killed...isn't that why you're irate in the first place? The person almost killed you once. Drivers do not fear collisions with cyclists because they are in no danger. If they know they run the risk of getting their ass kicked again for pulling a stupid stunt, they may give the next cyclist in their path a little more room. So I take circumstances into consideration and if I feel the situation warrants a good thrashing I'll give it whether verbal or escalated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a people person and am not out looking for trouble, but I won't tolerate other people jeopardizing my safety so they can shave 2 seconds off their automobile ride.

'Nuff said.
bikenriden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-02, 07:05 PM   #22
Dutchy
We drive on the left.
 
Dutchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Some will say that getting angry could get you killed...isn't that why you're irate in the first place? The person almost killed you once.
Very interesting point. I have often wondered after an altercation with a driver wether it was a smart thing to do or not. You have given me some clarity on why we do get SO ANGRY with drivers. If they hadn't cut us off, we wouldn't be aggressive, but in that second you realise (this is gonna hurt) and actually avoiding an accident is when the blood boils and cyclists react.

My brother and I both ride to work 3-4 days per week and at the end of the week we both have half a dozen stories to tell about near misses. Most of them are people not giving way (being impatient).

CHEERS.

Mark

Last edited by Dutchy; 07-31-02 at 07:07 PM.
Dutchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:31 AM.