Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-05-02, 01:43 PM   #1
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Drivers' Ideas on sharing roads

I got asked on Sunday to share the road while riding in a fairly narrow part of town (Pointe Claire Village for those who know Montreal), I was about 2.5 feet from the parked cars. I told him that I had the right to take the entire lane if I wanted, he told me again that all me wanted for me to share the lane. So I accelerated ahead of him and took the entire lane, sitting a bit to the left of center. I then asked him if he likes this better. I stayed for about 20seconds, pulled to the side. He passed without a word.
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 02:27 PM   #2
webist
Huachuca Rider
 
webist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bikes: Fuji CCR1, Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It is true that cyclists have as much right to the lane as does any legal form of transportation.

So to do motorhomes, some of which will pull over to let traffic backed up behind them get past. Others of course seem never to look behind them to realize they are inconveniencing anyone else. They do have the right to the lane though.

Occasionally,when driving behind someone who is moving at less than the posted speed limit, I get frustrated that they aren't in the slower lane or driving a bit faster. These are cars, also with a legal right to the lane. How frustrating to drive behind someone mile after mile at a slow speed, even though they do indeed have a right to the use of the road in front of me.

Bicyclists frequently are not maintining the legally posted speed for automobiles. Yet, they(we) have a legal right to be there.

So along with being careful while riding, we should treat others as we expect to be treated?

Carl
__________________
Just Peddlin' Around
webist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 02:31 PM   #3
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Everything you say is true, but I should mention that I was near the legal speed limit. In addition an extra space that can be used for cyclists becomes available abot 50m up the road from where this happened.
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 04:45 PM   #4
webist
Huachuca Rider
 
webist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bikes: Fuji CCR1, Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Given that, I suggest then that you were indeed treating others as you might expect to be treated. You encountered a jerk. Sorry about that.

Carl
__________________
Just Peddlin' Around
webist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 05:20 PM   #5
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Spire, this misunderstanding among motorists is not uncommon. Most of them don't know how to cycle on the road, therefore they don't know what to expect from lawful cyclists. "Sharing the road" is not, "lane splitting."

This morning I pulled in behind a car at a red light. I saw the shadow of a jeep behind me, creeping slowly to my left. I knew she was going to split the lane. Yup, she did. She pulled her little ol' self right up to the bumper of the car I was waiting behind and sat right next to me (I was practically in the center of the lane--did she need a bigger clue?)

Well, Peter Wheatstraw got the best of me this time. I accelerated as fast as I could to hold my position behind the next car, and she did, too. We split the lane together for about 50 feet, then I had to give up.

I think I need to grow up...
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 07:25 PM   #6
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by LittleBigMan

This morning I pulled in behind a car at a red light. I saw the shadow of a jeep behind me, creeping slowly to my left. I knew she was going to split the lane.
At this point I would have said something... I am being trained to speak when situations like this arise...
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 09:18 PM   #7
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by webist
Bicyclists frequently are not maintining the legally posted speed for automobiles. Yet, they(we) have a legal right to be there.
This is actually irrelevant. Believe it or not, the posted speed limit actually means the maximum acceptable speed, meaning that one can progress under that speed limit quite legally. Those that don't like it simply have to wait their turn, the same as in any other facet of life. If you wanna doubt that one, try abusing someone who holds you up in the supermarket queue and see how many seconds it takes security to throw you out.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-02, 09:25 PM   #8
mechBgon
Senior Member
 
mechBgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 6,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
LBM, in that situation, I'm no more grown-up than you, most of the time If they act like they think I'm slow off the line, I take it rather personally! :irritated (*looks over at cheetah avatar*) I certainly don't make it easy to get alongside me when I'm stopped in a situation like that, and if they're dense enough to try it, they deserve a little frustration IMO! I mean, what are those other lanes for...?

I have developed pretty good technique for launching hard, and I confess to enjoying it whenever I'm able to disprove the assumption that all cyclists accelerate like a dump truck. Now if I only had a road-racing bike, instead of the old loaded-touring bike... sure do miss her sometimes.

Nice job, Spire, on challenging the ignorant. I'm not sure it was wise, but I admire your guts!
mechBgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-02, 07:54 AM   #9
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Spire


At this point I would have said something... I am being trained to speak when situations like this arise...
I looked over at her and saw her face looked like she was sucking a lemon, so I didn't say anything.
__________________
No worries
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-02, 10:00 AM   #10
webist
Huachuca Rider
 
webist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Bikes: Fuji CCR1, Specialized Roubaix
Posts: 4,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L


This is actually irrelevant. Believe it or not, the posted speed limit actually means the maximum acceptable speed, meaning that one can progress under that speed limit quite legally.
The relavence of my comment pertains to the frustration experienced by those delayed by slower moving traffic, not whether it is legal to move slower. If all the lines at a market were occupied by people with two full baskets and I only had one item, I would be frustrated. I'd be forced to wait, but would still be frustrated.

I would be pleasantly surprised and grateful should those ahead of me jesture me to the front. Not claiming an entitlement here, just grateful. just as I am grateful when slower traffic, cyclist or otherwise, enables me to proceed at my pace.

The point is the civility involved in treating others as you hope to be treated whether on a cycle or in an automobile and the frustration caused when such treatment is not the case.

If it pleases you to be caught behind slow moving traffic and that is the way you wish to be treated, then by all means claim your lane an move as slowly as you can whenever you wish. Don't be surprised though when those behind you feel frustrated or think less kindly of you.

Carl
__________________
Just Peddlin' Around
webist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-02, 10:32 AM   #11
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The bottom line is that if you are holding up traffic, get out of the way. You may have the right but so what ... get out of the way. Why risk your life?
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-02, 10:52 AM   #12
mechBgon
Senior Member
 
mechBgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 6,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have yet to see a motorist intentionally get out of my way when they're slowing me down on my bicycle because they are driving below the speed limit (and yes, this does happen). Of course, that's a great excuse to signal a left lane change, pull out and pass... ...just as they should do when I'm going slower.
mechBgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-02, 09:14 PM   #13
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Stor Mand
The bottom line is that if you are holding up traffic, get out of the way. You may have the right but so what ... get out of the way. Why risk your life?
Depends on the situation. If it is safe and convenient to do so (i.e. the road has a decent shoulder) then I agree. However, I will not risk my life for somebody else's convenience, and I make no apologies for it. As I said before, in any other facet of life they have to wait their turn, why should this be any different?

If a you don't like having to wait for service at a restaurant you have one option - eat somewhere else. The same goes for driving.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-02, 06:57 AM   #14
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L
Depends on the situation. If it is safe and convenient ... [i]snip snip[i]]
What does convienience have to do with anything? As long as it's safe, get out of the way.

Quote:

If a you don't like having to wait for service at a restaurant you have one option - eat somewhere else. The same goes for driving.
Been there, done that.
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 02:48 AM   #15
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Stor Mand
What does convienience have to do with anything? As long as it's safe, get out of the way.
Perhaps you'd like to explain to me why their convenience is any more important than mine? Maybe you'd rather bikes not be on the road at all and use a separated path, and simply not go where a path is not provided. Hey, we'd all be out of the way then, wouldn't we?
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 06:47 AM   #16
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L


Perhaps you'd like to explain to me why their convenience is any more important than mine? Maybe you'd rather bikes not be on the road at all and use a separated path, and simply not go where a path is not provided. Hey, we'd all be out of the way then, wouldn't we?
If you are holding up traffic (1 car, 5 cars) and it is safe to move aside to let them pass, why would you not? Have some courteousy, unless you are really hell bent on your right to hold the lane. Use your head.
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 08:39 AM   #17
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L

Perhaps you'd like to explain to me why their convenience is any more important than mine? Maybe you'd rather bikes not be on the road at all and use a separated path, and simply not go where a path is not provided. Hey, we'd all be out of the way then, wouldn't we?
Well said, that is exactly the way I look at it. Of course I find that this only applies in reason. Blocking an 80kph road is unreasonable of course.
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 02:08 PM   #18
LittleBigMan
Sumanitu taka owaci
 
LittleBigMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Bikes:
Posts: 8,945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The law states that if traffic is backing up behind me I must pull over to let it pass. However, this doesn't seem to happen to me. Cars are able to get around me with no problem.

I do remember a large truck getting trapped behind me once, however. I carefully signalled and turned off to let it pass.

In general, I think the safest thing is to allow traffic behind me to decide when and where to pass. They have the best visibility and I can't know what they are planning to do. I have to focus on what's in front of me. The best way for me to help is to hold a straight line so they can judge a safe passing distance.
__________________
No worries

Last edited by LittleBigMan; 08-08-02 at 02:11 PM.
LittleBigMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 02:19 PM   #19
Spire
山馬鹿
Thread Starter
 
Spire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan
Bikes: TREK 1000 and a junk bike with a basket on the front to go to the shops.
Posts: 1,398
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The way I see it is that the golden rule is : BE PREDICTABLE.
__________________
http://www.cyclistsroadmap.com/eng/ - Cyclists' road map. Checkout which roads are good for cycling and rate roads in your area.
Spire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 02:54 PM   #20
ngateguy
Center of the Universe
 
ngateguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Everett, WA
Bikes: Bianchi San Remo, Norvara Intrepid MTB , Softride Solo 700
Posts: 4,372
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I noticed here in the state of Washington the law on bikes doesn't mention speed limit, but flow of traffic so it means that if I am going the speed limit and am backing up traffic I can get ticketed :confused:
__________________
Matthew 6
ngateguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 09:36 PM   #21
Chris L
Every lane is a bike lane
 
Chris L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
Bikes:
Posts: 9,626
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Stor Mand
If you are holding up traffic (1 car, 5 cars) and it is safe to move aside to let them pass, why would you not? Have some courteousy, unless you are really hell bent on your right to hold the lane. Use your head.
Evidently you've not read too many of my posts (the last of which, for this thread anyway, is right here). I have never advocated deliberately blocking traffic. If there's a decent shoulder I'll use it, but I will not leave the road just to make someone else happy.

I'll move aside where it's safe to do so, but only then. Heck if they've gotta change lanes to pass than so be it -- I couldn't care less. They'll do it for slower cars (many of which are going slower than me) so why not for bikes?

As I have said before, if waiting three seconds to pass a cyclist is going to make them late, they should just leave three seconds earlier.
__________________
"I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
"We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
My blog.
My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.
Chris L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-02, 10:49 PM   #22
Dutchy
We drive on the left.
 
Dutchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Bikes:
Posts: 1,096
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Blocking an 80kph road is unreasonable of course.
Unreasonable, dangerous and probably illegal.

Here the rules say that it is illegal to impede traffic (make other road users bank up behind you).

I have never had any trouble with moving right to the edge when climbing up a hill and letting cars past. On the open roads I will also stay on the white line to avoid being killed by someone driving 100kph+/60mph.

As a driver and a cyclist I find it unreasonable to expect someone to sit behind a bike up a hill as we crawl along at 15kph. There is a hill where I used to live that was very narrow (guard rail on one side and hill face the other) that had an average gradient of 11%, but was about 15% for the first 1km, people would struggle up this beast of a hill, making cars wait as it had several blind corners, double white lines and was unsafe to pass.

I never road up this hill for my own safety and that of other road users it was just too dangerous. Instead I used the new road which starts and finishes in the same place but was wider and only 8% grade.

It comes down to personal safety. I have every right to ride the steep road, but chose not too as it would cause too much agro for drivers, and put me at great risk.

Dead right, is still dead.

CHEERS.

Mark
Dutchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-02, 07:54 AM   #23
Stor Mand
Senior Member
 
Stor Mand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Bikes:
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L
Evidently you've not read too many of my posts (the last of which, for this thread anyway, is right here). I have never advocated deliberately blocking traffic. If there's a decent shoulder I'll use it, but I will not leave the road just to make someone else happy.

I'll move aside where it's safe to do so, but only then. Heck if they've gotta change lanes to pass than so be it -- I couldn't care less. They'll do it for slower cars (many of which are going slower than me) so why not for bikes?

As I have said before, if waiting three seconds to pass a cyclist is going to make them late, they should just leave three seconds earlier.
I've read the posts and I don't know, I think it may be the other way around. All I said was that if you are holding up traffic and it is safe to move aside to let them pass, then move aside. It's the safe & smart thing to do. You may have read more into that statement than there actually was.


Last edited by Stor Mand; 08-10-02 at 05:23 AM.
Stor Mand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-02, 10:37 AM   #24
MisterJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
Bikes:
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just wish that I could do 15 kph uphill.

MisterJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:03 PM.