Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    cyclist/gearhead/cycli... moxfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DC / Maryland suburbs
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo
    Posts
    4,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    "Safest way to improve a school transp. program is to put more kids in school buses"

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/08....ap/index.html

    This is a decent article overall, about how school buses are the safest way to get kids to school, and driving themselves is dangerous, but the above line really irked me.

    Sure, riding in a bus may be statistically safer than riding a bike, walking, or driving to school, but isn't that ignoring the bigger picture? What about the health benefits and independence gained by children who bike or walk to school!!!

    It's kind of pathetic that schools would put more kids on buses to get them to school, to avoid the extremely slight chance of a fatal accident, rather than teach them how to use physically and mentally healthier ways of getting to school safer.
    My bikes | Linux and Python stuff | Photo gallery

    Sheldon Brown, I miss you. Thanks for the advice, ideas, humor, and infectious enthusiasm for everything bikes...

  2. #2
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Ebritated
    Posts
    6,557
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You need to take into account the following variables

    -Weather. It does get a bit nippy in the Northern climes. Sure, having the kids walk or ride is fine during the warmer months, but what are you gonna do during the middle of February? Or the seemingly endless days of rain in the spring.

    -Darkness. With fall rapidly approach and our boneheaded congressional doffs farting with DST, it getting dark in the morning, not exactly the time to have kids motoring about on bikes.

    -Distance. Where do you draw the line for those that walk vs ride the bus. And what about age. Should we just let a 1st grader wander home unsupervised?

    There are so many variables, it better to just adopt an blanket policy. Sure, the chances of something happening to a kid are slim, but what if it's your kid.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  3. #3
    cyclist/gearhead/cycli... moxfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DC / Maryland suburbs
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo
    Posts
    4,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dobber
    You need to take into account the following variables

    -Weather. It does get a bit nippy in the Northern climes. Sure, having the kids walk or ride is fine during the warmer months, but what are you gonna do during the middle of February? Or the seemingly endless days of rain in the spring.

    -Darkness. With fall rapidly approach and our boneheaded congressional doffs farting with DST, it getting dark in the morning, not exactly the time to have kids motoring about on bikes.

    -Distance. Where do you draw the line for those that walk vs ride the bus. And what about age. Should we just let a 1st grader wander home unsupervised?

    There are so many variables, it better to just adopt an blanket policy. Sure, the chances of something happening to a kid are slim, but what if it's your kid.
    In Michigan, I walked to school regularly up through my senior year, including in the winter. My elementary school was about 1/2 mile away, middle school and high school were about 1 mile away, except for one year when I went to a school that was about 2.5 miles away. When the weather was good I'd ride my bike, in the middle of February or in the rain I'd walk.

    I would walk in the early winter morning darkness to swim practice in high school, or to before-school orchestra class carrying my cello. You're right about distance, I was lucky to live fairly close to school. I really like the system of nearby neighborhood schools in my home town.
    My bikes | Linux and Python stuff | Photo gallery

    Sheldon Brown, I miss you. Thanks for the advice, ideas, humor, and infectious enthusiasm for everything bikes...

  4. #4
    File Not Found Pampusik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    My Bikes
    two two-wheeled types
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you're interested in getting your kids to school alive, nothing's safer than a school bus.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,804
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is part of the article:

    Each year, about 800 school-age children are killed in motor vehicle crashes during school travel hours. Virtually all those fatalities -- 98 percent of them -- involve kids who drive to school, get rides in cars, walk or bike. And more than half of those deaths occur when the least experienced drivers, teenagers, are behind the wheel.

    Notice how this BY ITSELF is almost meaningless? One needs some idea of what percentage of kids actually ride the bus.

    But there is one rather interesting point. They say MORE THAN HALF of the total fatalities involve teen drivers. Now stop and think. How old do you have to be to get a license in most states? How old are most High School graduates? At most a kid has 2 out of 12 years when they could be driving. Most only 1 year. Not all kids have cars. Surely less than 10% and likely less than 5% of the trips to and from school produre over half the deaths. They are definable, but not broken out. Any bets that having a parent drive a kid to school is pretty close if not better safety wise than riding a bus? But if you lump it in with the worst group then busses are safest.

  6. #6
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Ebritated
    Posts
    6,557
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    Each year, about 800 school-age children are killed in motor vehicle crashes during school travel hours. Virtually all those fatalities -- 98 percent of them -- involve kids who drive to school, get rides in cars, walk or bike. And more than half of those deaths occur when the least experienced drivers, teenagers, are behind the wheel.

    Notice how this BY ITSELF is almost meaningless? One needs some idea of what percentage of kids actually ride the bus.
    One child killed is one too many.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

  7. #7
    cyclist/gearhead/cycli... moxfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DC / Maryland suburbs
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo
    Posts
    4,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by dobber
    One child killed is one too many.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pampusik
    If you're interested in getting your kids to school alive, nothing's safer than a school bus.
    Undoubtedly so, but there's a cost involved as well. Why not lock kids up all day in padded rooms? They're not too likely to die in accidents that way, but they're hardly living either.

    There are about 400 school-transportation fatalities per year in the USA, according to the article. That's perhaps 1 per 10,000 to 100,000 schoolchildren in the USA, right? So the risk is extremely low, even if tragic when it does occur. I feel like the damage done by sheltering kids from very minuscule risks like this one outweighs the benefits...
    My bikes | Linux and Python stuff | Photo gallery

    Sheldon Brown, I miss you. Thanks for the advice, ideas, humor, and infectious enthusiasm for everything bikes...

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    50
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Interesting article and I do see the point being made, however, I wonder how many of these statisticians have been on a public school bus lately? My hats off to anyone who can handle driving a school bus. I'll handle the students in the classroom (yes, I do have an elementary classroom). But from what I have seen and my own children have experienced on their bus rides to school...there needs to be another ADULT, not just a camera, on the bus to help keep civility among the riders. Invariably, what begins on the bus gets carried over into the everyday school day, or worse. I instructed my own children about the type of behavior that I expected them to exhibit on their bus ride. Because they would not enter into the poor behavior of others, my daughter became the bus "scapegoat" and target of bullies. That carried over into the classroom and followed her through high school. Miserable school experience for her. When I began teaching at that district, I dropped my children off at their respective buildings. When she was old enough to drive, she did. Did I worry? Of course, what good parent doesn't when their child begins to drive? But she was MUCH better off away from the cretins on the bus.

  9. #9
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Still in Santa Barbara
    My Bikes
    Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
    Posts
    4,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If all the kids went to school on buses instead of all these minivans and SUVs clogging up the street, darting into/out of parking spots, flinging doors open to eject or recieve kids who aren't looking where they are going, swinging around sports equipment etc, it would be a whole lot safer out there for people like me! Riding near schools is really stressful at the wrong time of day.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  10. #10
    Senior Member late's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    8,290
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Risk is inevitable. You lessen one risk by putting little Johnny on the bus. But you increase his risk of serious illnesses like diabetes, or early death later in life because he's a lard ass.

    Kids need exercise, and should be walking or riding a bike to school.
    Most, anyway.

  11. #11
    The Alternative Dressing
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    In the condiments section of your local grocer
    Posts
    169
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by late
    But you increase his risk of serious illnesses like diabetes, or early death later in life because he's a lard ass
    Can you back that up with data? Thought not.

  12. #12
    Senior Member late's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Southern Maine
    Posts
    8,290
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Miracle Whip
    Can you back that up with data? Thought not.
    depends on what you mean by data. Seems like every week we get a news story on the obesity epidemic. Around here I see a lot of fat kids, and far too few pick up games. That's my 2 cents.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    216
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sure, riding in a bus may be statistically safer than riding a bike, walking, or driving to school
    Well then, that supports the phrase with which you are having trouble.

    What about the health benefits and independence gained by children who bike or walk to school!!!
    Are those "saftey issues" as being defined by the schools? Probably not.

    It's kind of pathetic that schools would put more kids on buses to get them to school, to avoid the extremely slight chance of a fatal accident, rather than teach them how to use physically and mentally healthier ways of getting to school safer.
    What are these physically and menatally healther ways of getting to school safer?

    You admited that statitically, the bus was safer. How could those other modes also be safer?

    Hey, I'm all for kids riding the their bikes to school and getting exercise. However, that does not negate the fact that the phrase that irks you so is most likely true.....

  14. #14
    cyclist/gearhead/cycli... moxfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    DC / Maryland suburbs
    My Bikes
    Homebuilt tourer/commuter, modified-beyond-recognition 1990 Trek 1100, reasonably stock 2002-ish Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo
    Posts
    4,172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chemcycle
    What are these physically and menatally healther ways of getting to school safer?
    I did NOT say the other modes were safer. I said that they were HEALTHIER.

    I completey agree that the bus is safest, as you point out. I'm just saying that since other modes are only less safe to a minuscule degree, schools should look at the bigger picture and think about more than just safety when providing transportation options for kids to get to school.
    My bikes | Linux and Python stuff | Photo gallery

    Sheldon Brown, I miss you. Thanks for the advice, ideas, humor, and infectious enthusiasm for everything bikes...

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,265
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by moxfyre
    http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/08....ap/index.html

    This is a decent article overall, about how school buses are the safest way to get kids to school, and driving themselves is dangerous, but the above line really irked me.

    Sure, riding in a bus may be statistically safer than riding a bike, walking, or driving to school, but isn't that ignoring the bigger picture? What about the health benefits and independence gained by children who bike or walk to school!!!

    It's kind of pathetic that schools would put more kids on buses to get them to school, to avoid the extremely slight chance of a fatal accident, rather than teach them how to use physically and mentally healthier ways of getting to school safer.
    The companies that make school buses don't want to put lap or seat belts because of liability issues. Your car has seat belts but they won't but them on school buses because they don't increase your safty? This is bull! If lap belts didn't work but how about putting full seat belts?? The whole situation is insane.

  16. #16
    Perineal Pressurized dobber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Ebritated
    Posts
    6,557
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
    The companies that make school buses don't want to put lap or seat belts because of liability issues.
    http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/20050512.html

    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...tbelt.hmp.html

    I know some of the school districts in my area (very rural, typical grade/junior/high school is 500 kids) installed seatbelts for use when transporting younger kids. They employ both a driver and an assistant whose job it is ensure the tots use thier belts properly.
    This is Africa, 1943. War spits out its violence overhead and the sandy graveyard swallows it up. Her name is King Nine, B-25, medium bomber, Twelfth Air Force. On a hot, still morning she took off from Tunisia to bomb the southern tip of Italy. An errant piece of flak tore a hole in a wing tank and, like a wounded bird, this is where she landed, not to return on this day, or any other day.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •