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Old 08-15-02, 09:24 AM   #1
LittleBigMan
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Rolling through stops

I advocate obeying all traffic laws on the bicycle.

But I have a question: if police think we cyclists have to come to a complete stop, that is, we can't be rolling just a tiny bit, as we look both ways and wait our turn at a stop sign, what about cars? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but motorists never seem to stop completely at stop signs. In fact, I often see them roll on through after slowing a bit.

On the bike, when I hit a four-way stop, I try to keep traffic rolling. I roll up to a spot about two or three feet from the stop line, come almost to a complete stop, look, and wait my turn in "pause" mode. In the meantime, my wheels are creeping slowly forward to facilitate balance.

I consider this a very well-planned, safe stop. Am I taking liberties?
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Old 08-15-02, 09:57 AM   #2
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My commute takes me on a route that goes through a lot of T junctions. I look, if there is no car approaching, I won't even slow down. If I can't see around the intersection, I slow down, if there is a car there, I stop. I apply the exact same philosphy to driving a car. 4-ways are the same pretty much except with an extra place to look, I usually slow down somewhat for them.
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Old 08-15-02, 12:12 PM   #3
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Exactly what I do in a car or on a bike. Look long before I get there. Time my arrival so that everyone can get through the interection - and I'm willing to give the right of way to anyone - just not to no one.
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Old 08-15-02, 12:33 PM   #4
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Originally posted by joeprim
Exactly what I do in a car or on a bike. Look long before I get there. Time my arrival so that everyone can get through the interection - and I'm willing to give the right of way to anyone - just not to no one.
Well said!
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Old 08-15-02, 01:31 PM   #5
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I consider this a very well-planned, safe stop. Am I taking liberties?
LBM - you're only taking liberties when there's an officer nearby.
I go out on my bike with great expectations of following every traffic rule, but....I hate to wait!!!
So at stop signs, I slow down check for oncoming traffic and keep going, At red lights, I stop, check for oncoming and keep going. In a motor vehicle, you are putting others at great risk when disobeying traffic rules. On a bike, it is usually just yourself being put at risk by disobeyance of traffic rules. There is a difference.
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Old 08-15-02, 01:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by LittleBigMan
what about cars? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but motorists never seem to stop completely at stop signs. In fact, I often see them roll on through after slowing a bit.
this is often called the california stop I see this a lot in las vegas, what is also common is for cars to go when it's not their turn and almost hit a cyclist (i.e. me) I will rarely come to a full stop as it means I have to unclip. normally I will balance while I wait, which means maybe 2 feet or less of movement on my part. seems safe to me
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Old 08-15-02, 01:58 PM   #7
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If people are only expected to stop when necessary, you will see a Yield sign instead of a Stop sign (in the US). I make a point of stopping at stop signs as required, whether there is traffic or not. Even if I don't see cars, there may still be people watching, and seeing a cyclist fulfilling his/her obligations may incline other citizens to have a better view of us, or at least give the benefit of the doubt the next time they need to share the road with us.

I must agree that it is practically unheard-of for a person to stop at a stop sign around here with either a bicycle or a motor vehicle if they don't see traffic, unless they're a professional truck driver or an elderly, hesitant driver. And I don't suppose most of the people around here view stop-sign runners the way I do, as a result. I see them and think "is stopping at a stop sign too high a price to pay for the privileges you've been given? :irritated"

I guess I should add that a practically-complete stop, as LBM describes, is a pretty good gesture too, and if everyone at least did that, I think we are making lots of headway in public relations.

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Old 08-15-02, 02:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by mechBgon
I guess I should add that a practically-complete stop, as LBM describes, is a pretty good gesture too, and if everyone at least did that, I think we are making lots of headway in public relations.
Our behavior vis a vis traffic laws only contributes to public relations when there are witnesses. Absent witnesses, it is usually safe to proceed whether one stops or not. The presence of witnesses (police or otherwise) might rather suggest waiting our turn. Bad public relations are, along with injuries, to be avoided when possible.

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Old 08-15-02, 05:17 PM   #9
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So, the rule is stop and put one foot on the ground? I don't want to nit-pick, but is that really necessary?

Please understand, I'm not talking about turning a "stop" into a, "yield." I'm turning a "put your foot down" into a "stay ready while standing" mode, which requires rolling just a tiny bit,
though I've seen many cyclists who can stand balanced almost indefinitely without rolling.
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Old 08-15-02, 05:24 PM   #10
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The rule here in Australia is that you must stop and put one foot down.

We should apply that to motorists. I think it'd look pretty cute to have a row of cars at a stop sign with doors slightly open and legs hanging out.
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Old 08-15-02, 05:34 PM   #11
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LOL!

Here in the state of Washington, the law gives me the same rights and duties whether I drive a bicycle or a car. The law pertaining to stopping simply says I must stop, not how. If I halt momentarily, clipped in or not, I'm then free to proceed after yielding to anyone I'm required to yield to. I usually put my foot down anyway.

Personally, I'm not a skilled trackstander or I might use that option sometimes at red lights.

Here's the quote from the RCW:

Quote:
Except when directed to proceed by a duly authorized flagger, or a police officer, or a fire fighter vested by law with authority to direct, control, or regulate traffic, every driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering a marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering the roadway, and after having stopped shall yield the right of way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another roadway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when such driver is moving across or within the intersection or junction of roadways.
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Old 08-15-02, 05:57 PM   #12
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I'm doing a search on Yahoo on, "Georgia traffic law." Here's what I get:

about:blankhttp://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p...ia+traffic+law

No wonder we have so many problems on the road. I'll keep looking...
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Old 08-15-02, 06:07 PM   #13
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Try a search on Google: http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...ia+traffic+law
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Old 08-15-02, 06:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MediaCreations
The rule here in Australia is that you must stop and put one foot down.
What a crock! The law was obviously written by a non-cyclist and should be modified.

Quote:
We should apply that to motorists. I think it'd look pretty cute to have a row of cars at a stop sign with doors slightly open and legs hanging out.
You are right. Tell that one to the judge next time you are cited for stopping without unclipping.
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Old 08-15-02, 06:53 PM   #15
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Ummm..."stop" means "stop", does it not?
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Old 08-15-02, 08:29 PM   #16
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I believe we are supposed to folow the same rules or am I mistaken?
After thinking about it for, I dunno, milli-seconds .. stop means exactly what it says on the sign ... STOP.
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Old 08-15-02, 08:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nobby
Ummm..."stop" means "stop", does it not?
I believe it does.

So, who is obeying the true spirit of the law? The one who tries to stop first at a 4-way so that he/she can be the first one to go, or the cyclist who makes a careful pause/trackstand while looking and waiting carefully for his/her turn to go?
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Old 08-15-02, 08:58 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Stor Mand
I believe we are supposed to folow the same rules or am I mistaken?
After thinking about it for, I dunno, milli-seconds .. stop means exactly what it says on the sign ... STOP.

Well, milliseconds would be too short. Under our highway safety code, one must stop, then look, then, if the coast is clear, start again. This sould mean at least a 2-3 second stop.

Now, our law doesn't require car drivers to stop their engine, not it does require bike drivers to put their foot down.

Practically speaking, I generally do a track stand at stop signs, and I put the foot down when I have to let more than one car go through.

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Old 08-16-02, 04:23 AM   #19
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For those who don't want to unclip:

Use momentum...simply slow, throw yourSELF forward, and your BIKE backwards. You might even end up going negative, velocity-wise.

Then again, it's a good idea to practice getting in to your pedals...

ride carefully out there,
tt
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Old 08-16-02, 03:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by mgagnonlv
Practically speaking, I generally do a track stand at stop signs, and I put the foot down when I have to let more than one car go through.
This is what I also do at stop signs. I think the key is to actually have a look before proceeding. This, I believe, was the point of having a stop sign and this is something many people around here simply do not do.
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Old 08-16-02, 05:49 PM   #21
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It's really annoying when you stop, unclip, and put a foot down to courteously yield the right-of-way to a car, and they just sit there like you could dart out into the intersection At Any Second! Bikes must be just like cars. People do not think.
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