Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-04-05, 12:23 PM   #1
Gojohnnygo.
Burn-em Upus Icephaltus
Thread Starter
 
Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Bicyclist shot in face with BB gun

Police Pursue 3 BB Gun Vandals
Gunmen Shot Cyclist, Cars

http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/n...69/detail.html

BURLINGTON, Vt. -- Police are looking for three gunmen who went on a shooting spree Sunday night.

They shot a BB gun at just about anything within their aim -- including a bicyclist.

Cars and Bicyclist Hit by BB Gun Shooters

Dan Batten went outside and found two windows broken on his white BMW, and his neighbor's car experienced the same fate.

There was damage done on Colchester, North, and Plattsburgh avenues.

Police said three men in a car hit at least 14 windows with pellets from a BB gun.

Then, police said, they turned their weapon on a cyclist near Burlington High School.

He was hit in the face, but will recover.

"We'd be looking at multiple charges of unlawful mischief -- one for each vehicle and assault, the severity of which is undetermined," said Lt. Mike Schirling of Burlington police.

If you saw three men in a boxy dark blue car late Sunday night, call Burlington police.
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Gojohnnygo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-05, 01:24 PM   #2
slvoid
2-Cyl, 1/2 HP @ 90 RPM
 
slvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NYC
Bikes: 04' Specialized Hardrock Sport, 03' Giant OCR2 (SOLD!), 04' Litespeed Firenze, 04' Giant OCR Touring, 07' Specialized Langster Comp
Posts: 15,762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Please let the victim be a USPS employee... assult of a federal agent, that oughta go well. There was a thread a while back about kids throwing stuff at cars on the freeway and one of the guys turned his truck around, stalked down those kids, shot a bunch of them, killing one. I have absolutely no sympathy if those kids later shot some drug dealer on his way to make a delivery and ended up with the guy unloading 2 clips from his tec9 into their car; spray and pray.

I'm sure SOMEONE will SOMEHOW find a way to tie this in with the gun thread on the general forums so let's stop p***yfooting around and get right to it.

Point-counterpoint:
You've been shot in the face, now you can't really see that well, so you whip it out and start unloading randomly in all directions.
slvoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-05, 01:39 PM   #3
heckflosse
EARTH IS FULL. GO HOME.
 
heckflosse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: ENGLAND
Bikes: Jeep Cherokee-se, Euro Eco-bike
Posts: 292
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
"We'd be looking at multiple charges of unlawful mischief
If I got shot in the face I don't think I'd class it as 'unlawful mischief'
heckflosse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-05, 02:09 PM   #4
lilHinault
.
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: .
Bikes: .
Posts: 3,094
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Felony assault. Lets hope those guys are caught (hint, offer a reward, most of those kind of guys will rat on their own mother for a reward) and put in prison for a Loooong time. Oh, and whisper to the other prisoners that they're child molesters.
lilHinault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 12:00 PM   #5
Gojohnnygo.
Burn-em Upus Icephaltus
Thread Starter
 
Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckflosse
If I got shot in the face I don't think I'd class it as 'unlawful mischief'

Thats what I was thinking. Some type of assault charge at best is what we can hope for. I think it should be attempted murder. Who nows after being shot he could easily have swerved out into traffic.
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Gojohnnygo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 12:10 PM   #6
Gojohnnygo.
Burn-em Upus Icephaltus
Thread Starter
 
Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Please let the victim be a USPS employee... assult of a federal agent, that oughta go well. There was a thread a while back about kids throwing stuff at cars on the freeway and one of the guys turned his truck around, stalked down those kids, shot a bunch of them, killing one. I have absolutely no sympathy if those kids later shot some drug dealer on his way to make a delivery and ended up with the guy unloading 2 clips from his tec9 into their car; spray and pray.

I'm sure SOMEONE will SOMEHOW find a way to tie this in with the gun thread on the general forums so let's stop p***yfooting around and get right to it.

Point-counterpoint:
You've been shot in the face, now you can't really see that well, so you whip it out and start unloading randomly in all directions.

I'm with you. I can't say I'm innocent I did shoot my brother 2 front teeth out with a BB gun years ago. He just screamed and lay there. Yes I got into some big trouble for that stunt. Even if he shot me repeatedly first. Back then it was just kid games. These day they are getting crazy with all the stuff they pull.
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Gojohnnygo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 01:24 PM   #7
nova
hill hater
 
nova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: norton ohio 5.5 miles from center road tow path trail head
Bikes: cannondale t400 1987 model and a raleigh gran prix from 1973
Posts: 2,127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
Thats what I was thinking. Some type of assault charge at best is what we can hope for. I think it should be attempted murder. Who nows after being shot he could easily have swerved out into traffic.
Well you can easly kill some one with a bb gun. Dyna models have velocities of up to 1750 feet per secound. Granted the weight of the pellet is far less than that of even a measly .22. But at those speeds that pellet can easly find its way in to say a heart of lung a hit to the eye or ear coudl make it to a persons brain. BB guns and pellet guns are not toys folks. All i can say is some one shoots at me with one they had best be in a car and speeding off. Cause if i catch them ill wrap that bb gun around their head if rifle or cram it down their throat if pistol (that or keep it heh)
nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 01:43 PM   #8
my58vw
Meow!
 
my58vw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Riverside, California
Bikes: Trek 2100 Road Bike, Full DA10, Cervelo P2K TT bike, Full DA10, Giant Boulder Steel Commuter
Posts: 6,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have has someone shoot at me with a BB gun (not on a bike). The little pelet actually went though the tire and stopped inside. This was before I got a CA CCW permit. Shoot at me with a BB gun and you will be lucky if you do not get 10 rounds back at you from a 9mm...

and there is no one you would not want to be shot at more than me... I do not miss very often

It is funny because people have been charged with PC245 (Assult with a deady weapon) for paint ball guns, what about BB guns. IMO shooting any type of projectile at in individual is grounds for charges of atempt murder or at the minimum PC 220 and 245 in california.
__________________
Just your average club rider... :)
my58vw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 02:05 PM   #9
nobody
citizen rider
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Bikes: Nothing stock. 1 road, 2 mountain, 1 fixed gear, one Surly Cross Check, assorted frames and wheelsets to mix and match
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would guess the reason for the wimpy mischief charge is that the weapon was a BB gun instead of a firearm. No telling what the charges would have been if they had been sniping at cars on an interstate with a BB rifle.

Another factor is the automatic downgrading of anything that happens to someone on two wheels, motorcycle or bicycle. A lot of this stems from an inferiority complex some people must carry from their childhood, when they just couldn't seem to master a two-wheeler. "Stupid bike! Who needs it? Look at that showoff."

Seriously, when bad things happen to cyclists, many observers say, or don't quite say, "He(or she) was asking for it, playing in traffic on that bike."

At this time of year I observe a strange madness in the motoring public in my area. They seem to rush around more and drive more carelessly, even maliciously. Maybe they're just getting used to a full schedule again after summer's relative hiatus. The jerky motorists, combined with the shorter days, bring out the paranoid in me. I start to think about packing - and using - a gun myself. But I realize immediately that the doctrine of preemptive war would not be applied to me, and that it wouldn't be considered self defense, either, even if someone had come at me, a puny cyclist, with a few thousand pounds of chunky motor vehicle. Since it wouldn't improve my life, or the lives of other cyclists, it's not worth the karmic stain and the legal hassles. So once again I save the money and fall back on defensive driving and whatever luck I still have left.

I did carry a BB gun myself for a while, because a group of irresponsible dog owners had decided to leave it up to me to train their homicidal mutts. I only resorted to that kind of weaponry because the dogs formed a very efficient hunting pack which would burst out of the bushes on both sides of a narrow road. With multiple bogies, the old water bottle methods didn't cut it. Pepper spray just dissipated in the wind. My ultrasonic screecher didn't stop them, either.

As it happened, the owners finally got the message, perhaps after seeing me come through with drawn gun a few days in a row.

It was a nifty BB gun, semi-automatic, CO2 powered, so I could empty it as fast as I could squeeze off rounds. But I was just as glad not to have to use it. It's been gathering dust in a drawer for a year or more, now.
nobody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-05, 05:18 PM   #10
my58vw
Meow!
 
my58vw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Riverside, California
Bikes: Trek 2100 Road Bike, Full DA10, Cervelo P2K TT bike, Full DA10, Giant Boulder Steel Commuter
Posts: 6,025
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You are so right ^^^

Due to the fact we are on two wheels it seems that we get degraded to the level of children on BMX bikes, etc. i.e. we have no right to use the road. Due to attitudes in places like this I ride a little different. If drivers see you using the rules of the road to your advantage then they are less likely (not much but...) to disrespect you, just as they are less likely if you are in a "team" kit than in baggy shorts and a t-shirt. Obiously there are jerks out there that do stuff like that.

During the season I would do hill intervals in the area of a school, a nice 8 - 10 percent climb for about 1/4 mile or so. Kids on there little BMX bikes unsupervised after school would throw rocks at me as I passed. It only took one time stopping and scaring the crap out of the kids to stop. Most of the people that do this are young, stupid, inconsiderate etc. Sometimes it takes a stupid act on their parts (shooting themselves) or getting caught to change them. Sometimes it is up to us to instill a fear into them (without going to far that is).

You have no idea how many times I have wanted to beat the crap out a some kid around my house...

That said unless the system changes nothing will happen. It is up to the victim to push their case, IMO it was not done here. If I ever caught the person who hit me with their truck I do not know what I would do... better leave the 9 at home...
__________________
Just your average club rider... :)
my58vw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-05, 12:55 PM   #11
eubi
No Rocket Surgeon
 
eubi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Corona and S. El Monte, CA
Bikes: Cannondale D600, Dahon Speed T7
Posts: 1,648
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
Police Pursue 3 BB Gun Vandals
Gunmen Shot Cyclist, Cars

"We'd be looking at multiple charges of unlawful mischief -- one for each vehicle and assault, the severity of which is undetermined," said Lt. Mike Schirling of Burlington police.
Breaking car windows is unlawful mischief.

Shooting someone in the face is assault(?), however...

A battery occurs when one person makes physical contact with another person without that person's consent. A battery can consist of hitting, pushing, striking with an object, spitting many other forms of nonconsensual physical contact. An assault is an attempted battery which puts a person in fear of being battered. If a person takes a swing at you in order to give you a scare, that person has commited an assault. If the person actually hits you, that person has committed a battery. Assault & Battery often go together because it is common for a person to threaten to strike another person (assault) before actually striking that person (battery).

(from Vegas Injury Law. This isn't intended to be spam, but they had the best description of the two terms. It's only fair I give them credit.)
eubi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-05, 01:30 PM   #12
vtjim
Belt drive!
 
vtjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burlington, Vermont
Bikes: 2011 Trek Soho DLX
Posts: 2,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Huh - Never heard of that...

School's back in session!
vtjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 12:09 PM   #13
John Ridley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by heckflosse
If I got shot in the face I don't think I'd class it as 'unlawful mischief'
Please read a little more carefully. Allow me to parse the sentence for you:

multiple charges of unlawful mischief -- one for each vehicle...

(that's the part about PROPERTY DAMAGE, followed immediately by

...and assault, the severity of which is undetermined

(though, as someone already pointed out, it's battery, since the cyclist was actually hit, not just threatened).
John Ridley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 12:49 PM   #14
Gojohnnygo.
Burn-em Upus Icephaltus
Thread Starter
 
Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vtjim
Huh - Never heard of that...

School's back in session!

I'm thinking they might be the same folks that were shooting BB guns or pellet guns at cars and buses on route 2 on the cliffs of RT 2. Between the sand bar state park and I-89 Intersate. Think back to spring. I seen a couple of reports in june or may.
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Gojohnnygo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 01:05 PM   #15
Gojohnnygo.
Burn-em Upus Icephaltus
Thread Starter
 
Gojohnnygo.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I found the old story.



http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/n...82/detail.html




Police: Still No Arrests In Pellet Gun Shooting
8 BBs Fired From Side Of Road, Hitting Bus Twice

POSTED: 7:01 pm EDT May 6, 2005
UPDATED: 9:45 pm EDT May 6, 2005

COLCHESTER, Vt. -- Police are still investigating the case of a sniper or snipers who opened fire on cars in Vermont on Wednesday.

Authorities are now saying that at least eight BBs or pellets were fired at traffic on the road from Interstate 89 to the Grand Isle Ferry. Two tour buses and five cars from both New York and Vermont were hit Wednesday night on Route 2 in Colchester, near Clay Point Road.

One of the buses was hit twice.

Premier Coach bus 174 should be on the road on Friday, but it's parked in a lot in Colchester.

The bus was en route to Plattsburgh State University to pick up the baseball team for an away game in Corning.

"The driver was shook up from the fact of what happened, and unsure as to why it happened," said Detective Mark Jacobs, of Colchester police.

The bus driver immediately called his office to tell them what happened, and he was told to turn around. But on the way back, he was hit again --- this time on the other side.

Police searched nearby woods with dogs looking for possible clues. They spoke with neighbors, but no arrests were made.

"We're taking it very seriously," said Jacobs. "It's all we've been working on on Friday, and until we figure out who did it, we won't stop digging up the leads as they come."

Police said another bus and five other vehicles from Vermont and the Plattsburgh area were hit. No one was injured.

It will cost $3,000 to repair the Premier Coach bus. The company is upset about the incident.

"What seems like maybe fun and games may end up causing somebody to lose their life, or a driver if he gets distracted and doesn't react properly," said Randy Charlebois, general manager of Premier Coach.
__________________
Sick BubbleGum
Gojohnnygo. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 01:24 PM   #16
Little Darwin
The Improbable Bulk
 
Little Darwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA
Bikes: Many
Posts: 8,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
Please let the victim be a USPS employee...
As a USPS employee this actually irritated me for just a second...
Quote:
Originally Posted by slvoid
assult of a federal agent, that oughta go well.
... BUT, this set me back on an accepting frame of mind.

Even though that is my response from an emotional perspective, I do find that I disagree that criminals should be treated differently based on the governmental or social position that the victim holds. Anyone who batters (or even assaults) someone should ALWAYS be treated as if that person was the most important person in the world. After all, in many cases that person is one of the most important peeople in the world to somebody.
__________________
Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA

People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Little Darwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 01:33 PM   #17
vtjim
Belt drive!
 
vtjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burlington, Vermont
Bikes: 2011 Trek Soho DLX
Posts: 2,614
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
I found the old story.
I must not have been paying attention to the news that week either.

Nice sig, BTW.
vtjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-05, 02:23 PM   #18
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gojohnnygo.
"We'd be looking at multiple charges of unlawful mischief -- one for each vehicle and assault, the severity of which is undetermined," said Lt. Mike Schirling of Burlington police.
Come on people read at least a whole sentence. They are looking at assault, if they catch the guys AND then 14 other charges at the least.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:09 AM.