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Old 09-07-05, 09:48 PM   #1
mrRed
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How many times today ...

... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter.

During my commute today, twice. One cabbie almost ran me off the road, but I was able to jump up onto a low curb and onto a sidewalk. Much yelling insued as i rode off. One ***** in a jetta (pardon my french) couldn't understand that if I tried to ride on the side of the road I'd be knee deep in potholes (it its the industrial area of Long Island City, Queens, NY) and decided to lay on her horn, I stayed in my position, she passed me, and approaching the next light, tried to cut me off from passing her at the next light (she was swerving all over the road and I had to approach her from behind on the left, at which point she pulled onto the double yellow, stopped and I swerved right and passed her, turning onto my block one up).

Seriously, how hard is it to just realize that I won't ride in the gutter and play "lets bunny hop potholes", and look every once in a while. Fer fack's sake, the cabbie couldn't have not seen me.

What about you?
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Old 09-07-05, 10:09 PM   #2
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I get negligible flack from drivers, and believe me, I don't ride the gutters!


Just curious, what kind of bike are you riding and what are you wearing?

Does your body language and riding style make clear to drivers that you belong where you are riding? Do you feel, deep down, that you belong where you are riding?
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Old 09-07-05, 10:25 PM   #3
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Let's see, you just want today's? Today I was on the roadie, I almost always have more trouble when I'm on it and I don't even wear a kit. Grandma decided to pull out right in front of me (doing 24 mph) and couldn't understand why I was pissed. Mr. motorcycle made a right turn RIGHT in front of me (hadn't even totally passed me yet) as he pulled into MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute), I told him he obviously wasn't the brightest student in the class. Had another cyclist refuse to move over on the MUP. Guess that was about it for today.

Strangely, if I'm on the commuter (mtn bike with slicks) I don't have as many road rage encounters and actually get a lot of people that honk going the other way???? Did have a bus driver last week that I got into it with though. He cut us off pulling into the bike lane to drop off his customer and then as we were forced to pass "taking the lane" he cut us off pulling out and forced us over another lane about causing my wife to crash. I can handle it if you fawk with me, but mess with a family member and I'm pissed. We had "words" and I later filed a complaint against him as I couldn't seem to get him to understand he still had to yield when merging, he thought buses had free reign???? Kind of funny, he told me he hoped I got 2 flat tires and I told him I hoped he didn't have a job tomorrow. They're supposed to contact me regarding the complaint though so we'll see what happens.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:19 AM   #4
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Nothing today. Yesterday, someone honked at me because I kept going straight while he/she wanted to get on the right turn only lane. Don't know if it was an angry honk or warning honk, but I gave the one-finger salute for the first time in my life since that honk startled me.

Probably happened because I mentionned I rarely get honked at in another thread.

Incidents with drivers are an extreme rarity.
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Old 09-08-05, 07:20 AM   #5
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Twice. AND I WAS DRIVING!

Some people are just idiots in general.
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Old 09-08-05, 07:20 AM   #6
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I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.

You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrRed
... did someone either (a) try to run you off the road or (b) get pissy because you wouldn't ride in the gutter. What about you?
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Old 09-08-05, 09:31 AM   #7
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None yet this year. I'm only up to about 700 miles for the year due to some medical and other issues.
Last year, I think I got honked at 4 times, in 2600 miles. Nobody drove erratically around me.
When I first started commuting, I came here and the rhetoric scared me (especially on the "Advocacy and Safety" board). I like to post once in a while to let people know that it's not that bad everywhere.
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Old 09-08-05, 09:41 AM   #8
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I can't remember the last time I got run into the gutter or got flack from drivers.

We're just one happy family of commuters here in So Cal.

(This is my reality, yours may vary.)
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Old 09-08-05, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eubi
I can't remember the last time I got run into the gutter or got flack from drivers.

We're just one happy family of commuters here in So Cal.

(This is my reality, yours may vary.)
gotta agree. the only time i have trouble is nice afternoons when the mup i take to extend my ride home (6.6 mi in am, 15-20 in pm) gets clogged with people, and then its mainly an issue of letting them know i'm coming and they move over.
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Old 09-08-05, 10:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf5nd
I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.

You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?
And you're from Houston! I've been assured a number of times on this forum by various folks that the only reason VC works for me is because I live in San Diego, and, in particular, not in Houston. (Gene, are you reading this thread?)

Anyway, we have self-proclaimed vehicular cyclists who unanimously claim little if any problems with motorists, and others who claim having problems daily, or almost daily.

Hmm...
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Old 09-08-05, 11:01 AM   #11
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Only one problem today. A guy crossing a six lane street that was empty except for me in the far right lane, taking the whole lane. I was very visible the motorist saw me and then continued across the road and pretended that he didn't see me as he chatted on his phone. I almost never have problems, but here in LA the ones that do cause issues are the ones who do see me and act as if they don't have to drive any differently when they do. But I don't think this is a cycling thing as these kind of drivers do these things when I'm driving too.
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Old 09-08-05, 11:58 AM   #12
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Hmmm, nothing the last day or two. I did have an "encounter" with a UPS truck recently.

Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses. I'd say that almost every time I've been cursed-out, agressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc I have been fully in the lane where I belong and drivers, ahem, disagreed. Bleep happens fellas, no matter how "vehicularly" you ride.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:07 PM   #13
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I have found that in certain neighborhoods, even if I ride in the middle of the lane, the drivers still pass me with little to no room between us. Most other places I can do it without having trouble.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:15 PM   #14
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Problems with drivers can happen anytime, but especially during drive time, when all the cube rats are going to and fro. If you had their boss, you'd be generally p!ssed at the world, too. Plus NYC traffic is always a horror, so a cyclist taking up the only 3 or 4 feet of lane space is almost guaranteed to run into a jerk, oftimes more than one.

I have found that if the driver/cager is really dangerous, as in swerving around erractically or otherwise trying to mess with you (in NYState it's called Vehicular Menacement, or Attempted Vehicular Assault, depending), I have found that acting in a manner that suggests that you (the cyclist) are in fact more psychotically deranged than the driver will cool them down. Pounding on the driver's window, demanding that they either roll down the window or get out of the vehicle is very effective. Obviously following them for a few blocks is a good one, also.

For those of you who aren't 6 feet, 195lbs as I am, I can also suggest DMV form MV-15. All you need is the plate number. Send the filled out form and $12 to Albany, and you will recieve the driver's name, address, and a list of violations. This is especially useful if you have problems with the same person over time.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oboeguy
Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses. I'd say that almost every time I've been cursed-out, agressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc I have been fully in the lane where I belong and drivers, ahem, disagreed. Bleep happens fellas, no matter how "vehicularly" you ride.
Why the quotes around "vehicularly"? Do you think VC is basically "riding in the middle of the lane where I belong"? If so, that could explain why you have been cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC then simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf5nd
I ride 4000 miles per year, mostly to/from work, and it never happens to me.You're doing something wrong. Do you know how to ride vehicularly?
I have been bike commuting for years and I have almost never had a conflict with an automobile. Even though I live in a city, cars don't honk at me, yell, cut me off, or throw things. I'm starting to develop a complex since I can't write into bikeforums and biatch about "cagers."

Last edited by cedo; 09-08-05 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oboeguy
H
Aside: you ultra-VC guys really need to pull the seatposts out of your arses.
Now that gave me a mental image I could do without.
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Old 09-08-05, 12:59 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
Why the quotes around "vehicularly"? Do you think VC is basically "riding in the middle of the lane where I belong"? If so, that could explain why you have been cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road, etc.

VC includes riding in the middle of the lane when it is safe, reasonable and appropriate to do so, but is much more than that.

In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time. Issuing a slow/stop signal with the left arm does wonders in this respect... how many times have you used a slow/stop signal in the last week? Month? Year?

There is a lot more to VC then simply taking the lane, and it's certainly not simply about taking the lane for no reason.
Quotes because I wasn't sure it was a real word. I'll take it from you that it is.

Only an a real dummy would sit in the middle of the lane at all times, duh. As for communicating, I wish more folks would so I wouldn't feel so silly being the only one doing it. I've gone so far as to tap on a guy's window at an intersection to thank him for being courteous. BTW, I believe I used a "slow/stop signal" twice in the last 24 hours. Nice try. It even worked both times, which is pretty good around here.

To sum-up, you're preaching to a believer who doesn't want to be part of your church.
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Old 09-08-05, 01:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cedo
I have been bike commuting for years and I have almost never had a conflict with an automobile. Even though I live in a city, cars don't honk at me, yell, cut me off, or throw things. I'm starting to develop a complex since I can't write into bikeforums and biatch about "cagers."
Join the complex club

You know, I used to commute via motorcycle 100 miles a day in LA traffic. I can't remember ever being cut off or even having a close call then either. Hmmmm.
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Old 09-08-05, 01:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eubi
Join the complex club

You know, I used to commute via motorcycle 100 miles a day in LA traffic. I can't remember ever being cut off or even having a close call then either. Hmmmm.
You have got to be kidding me? Which roads/freeways did you commute on that you never had ANY run-ins?
I'm not one of those Los Angeles drivers bashers, but that you never had an incident in 100 mile a day commute seems a bit hyperbolic. It sounds more like you just never let any of it get to you, which is admirable in its own right. Which I guess you can argue that if an incident didn't affect you then maybe it didn't happen. If that's the case then you are the Zen Commutin' Master
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Old 09-08-05, 02:02 PM   #21
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Ok,I generally just sit back and roast marshmallows on these VC flame fests,but I think it's time to throw down the gauntlet.

Helmet Head:I obviously need your wisdom and guidance. I encounter idiots every day,dispite my attempts at VC. Tell you what,I'm on vacation for the next 3 weeks starting Mon. How about you come out here to DC and show me how it's done? We can go through Georgetown on Friday night,go up and down Wisc and Mass,and I'll even take you to the AU traffic circle. You can show me the proper way to ride,how to be one with the traffic. Heck,I'll even take you out with the Pirates and buy your drinks.

How about it? Wanna get your Yoda on?
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Old 09-08-05, 04:19 PM   #22
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No way I can make it to DC, but I'll take on any offer like that in San Diego.

Any VCists in DC who can go out for a few rides with dynaryder?
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Old 09-08-05, 04:42 PM   #23
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No problems today or almost every other day. I can go a whole year with no cager yells or honks, then get two or three in one day. Usually, that one day is the first day of school, and the yellers are high school students. "Ypi aren't allowed to ride in the street! Use the sidewalk!" I sometimes stop in the middle of the street and have long discussions with them. It usually ends up sounding like on of these threads!
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Old 09-08-05, 04:54 PM   #24
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To those elitist: I find it ironic that you assume proper vehicular cycling is not being used if someone gets honked at, etc. I take entire lanes when I'm riding 35-45 MPH in 30 MPH traffic the last 1/4 mile from my work (a nice railroad transom that is about 1/4 miles long and an 8 degree grade). I can guarantee on about a 1-in-3 day chance that someone will come racing up behind me, intentionally speeding, to yell at me, honk or get into a verbal argument about where I should be riding. Normally an explaination of the rules, a polite, yet firm explaination of why my foot would hurt if it was implanted in their ass or an offer to ride the block over and allow one of the fine Temple Police Department officers decide how best to explain the rules of the road follows, I've never had an issue beyond that really.

To the OP: I was walking! this morning because I taco'd my rim a bit and didn't have time to true it. My commute to school is 8 miles so it took me about 2 hours total, needless to say I was able to log the following genius behavior:
A. Almost hit 3 times even though I was lit in my running clothes w/ reflective tape on the sides, a hat light, 3 reflectors I have on my bag, two ankle-reflectors and my blinkie that I have mounted to my bag as well, while crossing a bridge with 3 lights on it, no sidewalk or shoulder for me to walk on. Normally I can run/ride on this bridge without issue, so I found it really funny when I was walking. The third car was pulled over by the police officer that passed. The only part of the conversation I heard was "Are you telling me you couldn't see that moving christmas tree that was legally crossing the bridge, sir?" - made me laugh (which pissed off the cop I think by his look).
B. Almost got hit by 3 bike commuters going the wrong way on the MUP (the wrong way meaning down the center and forcing me to step into the grass).
C. Had a gravel truck spew me with debris as he came screaming up the side of the road doing 70 in a 50MPH zone.

Was an eventful morning (now I'm just sore and have 2 huge bruises on my back where my laptop politely tapped onto my lower back for 2 hours.
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Old 09-08-05, 05:27 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
And you're from Houston! I've been assured a number of times on this forum by various folks that the only reason VC works for me is because I live in San Diego, and, in particular, not in Houston. (Gene, are you reading this thread?)

Anyway, we have self-proclaimed vehicular cyclists who unanimously claim little if any problems with motorists, and others who claim having problems daily, or almost daily.

Hmm...
Read posts 12 and 13...

And RE Houston, sure there are quiet neighborhoods, just as not everyone in San Diego has to use Miramar road or 5 south in their commute.

Loved this little explaination:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
In other words, if faster traffic is behind a vehicular cyclist, he will generally keep to the right to facilitate their passing (and hence not get cursed-out, aggressively honked at, nearly run off the road), unless there is an obviously good reason to not do so. And if it's not obvious, the VC will communicate with the motorist behind him, mostly with smiles, hand gestures and body language, to aid the motorist in understanding why it is not safe and/or reasonable for the cyclist to move over at that time.
Gee, just sounds just like a few weeks ago when I was generally keeping to the right, in my own lane, on west bound Clairemont Mesa Blvd, on a quiet Sunday morning with the two left adjacent lanes wide open, and along comes mr. motorist... right behind me (never mind the empty lanes) and honks.

I communicated with mr. motorist and asked what the problem was... I was not "far enough over to the right."

Three lanes of road, I am in one lane and the other two are empty, I am avoiding parked cars which are just up ahead of me... and yet this jerk comes up and honks.

"Not far enough to the right."

Seems to me the real problem was he was not far enough to the left.

I could not have been more VC, and yet... this happens... I guess my only other recourse would have been to simply not be there, then the road would have been completely empty, for mr. motorist.

BTW for the record, there are no bike lanes on Clairemont Mesa Blvd... anywhere. And yes, this was a rare incident... but why did it occur at all? That's the part that sticks with me.
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