Two Cyclists' Deaths in Los Angeles
#1
2 Wheel Junkie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 352
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Two Cyclists' Deaths in Los Angeles
Cyclists' Deaths Point to PCH Perils
The breathtaking views on the Pacific Coast Highway carry risks for cyclists, who ride in the sea breeze at considerable peril as cars on the narrow road zoom by.
On Saturday morning, a catering truck hit two cyclists, who had been forced off the northbound shoulder and onto the road by a construction project. The driver did not stop immediately after hitting the men, who died soon after being airlifted to UCLA Medical Center.
Rest of article in the following link:
https://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california
The breathtaking views on the Pacific Coast Highway carry risks for cyclists, who ride in the sea breeze at considerable peril as cars on the narrow road zoom by.
On Saturday morning, a catering truck hit two cyclists, who had been forced off the northbound shoulder and onto the road by a construction project. The driver did not stop immediately after hitting the men, who died soon after being airlifted to UCLA Medical Center.
Rest of article in the following link:
https://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This is a rare rear-ender, which could have been prevented by the use of rear view mirrors by the bicyclists. Condolences to the family.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
Just so people can place this one. It is on PCH just North of Peperdine. Normally a prety good section of road, reasonable shoulder. It has been a while since I've been out there, but there was not a bike lane and I doubt there is one now.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
This is a rare rear-ender, which could have been prevented by the use of rear view mirrors by the bicyclists.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Keith99
How? Long section of road with no where to go to get out of the way. Not much one can do all mirrors would have done is let them see death coming.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in the hills of Orange, CA
Posts: 1,355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's hard to tell from the story whether the cyclists waited too late to merge into the traffic lane, or if they had already established position in the traffic lane before getting hit.
#7
Dominatrikes
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Still in Santa Barbara
Posts: 4,920
Bikes: Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Here's a picture:
https://photos.imageevent.com/aero92/...H%20Perils.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/aero92/...H%20Perils.jpg
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by sbhikes
Here's a picture:
https://photos.imageevent.com/aero92/...H%20Perils.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/aero92/...H%20Perils.jpg
Looks like some cute lawyer is gonna make a whole bunch of money from CADOT! The way the construction zone is set up is contributory.
But, then again, the attoney for the defence, CADOT, will invoke Boub V Wayne. Cyclists shouldn't be on PCH in the first place...blah blah blah.
#9
Cat 6 Wheel-Sucker
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central New England
Posts: 310
Bikes: Pinarello, Cannondale, Peugeot
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
From what I've heard by some others that ride up that way frequently, the area of the collision is under construction. The company doing the construction work had placed k-rails (commonly called "jersey barriers") RIGHT UP TO the white line on the edge of the road, which they arguably should not have done. Expect a lawsuit against the general contractor for sure.
Anyway, since there was no shoulder, the cyclist had nowhere to go, with or without a mirror. Since he was likely moving downhill at a reasonable speed, stopping would have been difficult and may have resulted in a crash with him AND the other rider getting injured or run over (those that have ridden in groups will know what I mean).
So you had a couple of cyclists barreling downhill at moderate to high speed, rounding a curve (where visibility isn't super great to start with), only to get "squeezed" off the shoulder by inappropriately-placed construction barriers. Not good. Add to it the asshat driving the truck who reportedly didn't want to slam on the brakes because there were other guys cooking (yes, COOKING) in the back. This is illegal as hell, for those that don't know.
Yes, these are the idiots we deal with on a daily basis. Be careful out there people!!!
Here's the whole story:
https://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ck=1&cset=true
Anyway, since there was no shoulder, the cyclist had nowhere to go, with or without a mirror. Since he was likely moving downhill at a reasonable speed, stopping would have been difficult and may have resulted in a crash with him AND the other rider getting injured or run over (those that have ridden in groups will know what I mean).
So you had a couple of cyclists barreling downhill at moderate to high speed, rounding a curve (where visibility isn't super great to start with), only to get "squeezed" off the shoulder by inappropriately-placed construction barriers. Not good. Add to it the asshat driving the truck who reportedly didn't want to slam on the brakes because there were other guys cooking (yes, COOKING) in the back. This is illegal as hell, for those that don't know.
Yes, these are the idiots we deal with on a daily basis. Be careful out there people!!!
Here's the whole story:
https://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ck=1&cset=true
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2WheelFury
From what I've heard by some others that ride up that way frequently, the area of the collision is under construction. The company doing the construction work had placed k-rails (commonly called "jersey barriers") RIGHT UP TO the white line on the edge of the road, which they arguably should not have done. Expect a lawsuit against the general contractor for sure.
Anyway, since there was no shoulder, the cyclist had nowhere to go, with or without a mirror. Since he was likely moving downhill at a reasonable speed, stopping would have been difficult and may have resulted in a crash with him AND the other rider getting injured or run over (those that have ridden in groups will know what I mean).
So you had a couple of cyclists barreling downhill at moderate to high speed, rounding a curve (where visibility isn't super great to start with), only to get "squeezed" off the shoulder by inappropriately-placed construction barriers. Not good. Add to it the asshat driving the truck who reportedly didn't want to slam on the brakes because there were other guys cooking (yes, COOKING) in the back. This is illegal as hell, for those that don't know.
Anyway, since there was no shoulder, the cyclist had nowhere to go, with or without a mirror. Since he was likely moving downhill at a reasonable speed, stopping would have been difficult and may have resulted in a crash with him AND the other rider getting injured or run over (those that have ridden in groups will know what I mean).
So you had a couple of cyclists barreling downhill at moderate to high speed, rounding a curve (where visibility isn't super great to start with), only to get "squeezed" off the shoulder by inappropriately-placed construction barriers. Not good. Add to it the asshat driving the truck who reportedly didn't want to slam on the brakes because there were other guys cooking (yes, COOKING) in the back. This is illegal as hell, for those that don't know.
#11
Cat 6 Wheel-Sucker
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central New England
Posts: 310
Bikes: Pinarello, Cannondale, Peugeot
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Typically barriers are placed to leave a shoulder (might be narrower than normal, but usually SOMETHING is left). If any of the barricades are over the line without having obtained the appropriate permits from Caltrans, the G.C. is f*cked and will possibly be nailed for gross negligance. Either way, the lawyers are going to have a field day with this one.
Side note, since we're talking about riding safety - even when there IS a shoulder, anytime you have k-rails present at the edge of the road, they just become "junk collectors" and a shoulder strewn with debris can be as big a hazard as anything else. Anyone that rides CA roads with any regularity knows there is WAY too much trash, debris, etc. on the roadsides that never gets picked up. Not to mention the "junk barges" that roll around with crap literally falling out of the back (no tarp, no cover, etc.) It's all too common.
Side note, since we're talking about riding safety - even when there IS a shoulder, anytime you have k-rails present at the edge of the road, they just become "junk collectors" and a shoulder strewn with debris can be as big a hazard as anything else. Anyone that rides CA roads with any regularity knows there is WAY too much trash, debris, etc. on the roadsides that never gets picked up. Not to mention the "junk barges" that roll around with crap literally falling out of the back (no tarp, no cover, etc.) It's all too common.
#12
Banned.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 13,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The article says they were riding side by side, which means at least one of them was pretty far left.
This guy should get the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
Outrageous.
This guy should get the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
Outrageous.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
This guy should get the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
#14
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by Helmet Head
The article says they were riding side by side, which means at least one of them was pretty far left.
This guy should get the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
Outrageous.
This guy should get the death penalty as far as I'm concerned.
Outrageous.
Perhaps they did not ensure it was clear far enough back, or perhaps they abruptly pulled out in front of the food truck, perhaps they should have moved further to the left or perhaps their mirrors were dirty, or...
I donno, I want to see a full investigation before committing to the death penalty... after all the motorist did say "I didn't see them... "
I guess broad daylight, two cyclists in the middle of the lane, is just not visible, eh?
#15
Senior Member
I ride that section often (last time was 9 days ago). The construction site is along an uphill stretch.
The driver could have seen riders well far ahead due to the grade. It's quite common to get breezed on PCH due to the speeds, the amount of traffic and the erratic shoulder width. This last Saturday morning
was foggy at the beach. The driver should have been driving at reduced speed because of the fog, certainly not driving over the limit like the article states. I'm sure I'll get a chill next time I ride that bit of road again.
The driver could have seen riders well far ahead due to the grade. It's quite common to get breezed on PCH due to the speeds, the amount of traffic and the erratic shoulder width. This last Saturday morning
was foggy at the beach. The driver should have been driving at reduced speed because of the fog, certainly not driving over the limit like the article states. I'm sure I'll get a chill next time I ride that bit of road again.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
What? Are you SURE there wasn't some way that the cyclists could have avoided this...
Perhaps they did not ensure it was clear far enough back, or perhaps they abruptly pulled out in front of the food truck, perhaps they should have moved further to the left or perhaps their mirrors were dirty, or...
I donno, I want to see a full investigation before committing to the death penalty... after all the motorist did say "I didn't see them... "
I guess broad daylight, two cyclists in the middle of the lane, is just not visible, eh?
Perhaps they did not ensure it was clear far enough back, or perhaps they abruptly pulled out in front of the food truck, perhaps they should have moved further to the left or perhaps their mirrors were dirty, or...
I donno, I want to see a full investigation before committing to the death penalty... after all the motorist did say "I didn't see them... "
I guess broad daylight, two cyclists in the middle of the lane, is just not visible, eh?
#17
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
This is the classic rear-ender, rare, but could have been avoided by the use or rear-view mirror by the cyclists. But, the fault is with the wild and crazy car driver.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Honestly if the cyclists had seen this guy in their mirrors, were would they have gone to avoid the truck? The side of the road was closed, and only the other lane was available. In reality, the truck should have slowed down had the driver been paying attention...
#19
kipuka explorer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hilo Town, East Hawai'i
Posts: 3,297
Bikes: 1994 Trek 820, 2004 Fuji Absolute, 2005 Jamis Nova, 1977 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
This is the classic rear-ender, rare, but could have been avoided by the use or rear-view mirror by the cyclists.
__________________
--
-=- '05 Jamis Nova -=- '04 Fuji Absolute -=- '94 Trek 820 -=- '77 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36 -=-
Friends don't let friends use brifters.
--
-=- '05 Jamis Nova -=- '04 Fuji Absolute -=- '94 Trek 820 -=- '77 Schwinn Scrambler 36/36 -=-
Friends don't let friends use brifters.
#21
Senior Member
This section of road is straight, slightly uphill and at present, because of construction, without a shoulder.
A rear view mirror wouldn't have saved anybody in this case. There is nowhere to go. If the riders were two abreast they were doing the only reasonable thing. They had to take the lane since the shoulder is non-existent for a significant distance.
You can easily see a single rider 1/2 mile ahead along there if you're paying attention. I'd guess the driver was distracted by something happening in the back of the truck and just gave up on driving for a while.
A rear view mirror wouldn't have saved anybody in this case. There is nowhere to go. If the riders were two abreast they were doing the only reasonable thing. They had to take the lane since the shoulder is non-existent for a significant distance.
You can easily see a single rider 1/2 mile ahead along there if you're paying attention. I'd guess the driver was distracted by something happening in the back of the truck and just gave up on driving for a while.
#22
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times
in
3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
The cyclists would have seen the truck long before merging into traffic.
Not a good course of action frankly. I never assume I am seen. Yes, I do believe cyclists are invisible. No, I don't always act like it, but when I need to make sure I am seen by faster traffic behind me, I signal and wait for something to slow down first. I use that vehicle as a shield between me and anything behind the now slowed vehicle.
Is that a perfect system... no way.
The slowed shield vehicle can be plowed into behind them, driving them forward into me. (I have had that happen to me in an auto, so I know it can happen to a cyclist). Motorists behind the slowed shield vehicle can become upset (gee, that never happens) and pull sudden passing moves around the slowed vehicle assuming that there is free space in front... where I am.
But only depending on mirrors and signals and lane positioning to make one "visible," nah, there is a real fatal flaw in that thinking.
#23
Don't worry about it!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: California
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by barenakedbiker
The cyclists would have seen the truck long before merging into traffic.
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
But only depending on mirrors and signals and lane positioning to make one "visible," nah, there is a real fatal flaw in that thinking.