Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    15,267
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    bike saddles and male health

    Here we go again. I found the article below in today's San Diego Union Tribune's weekly Quest section.

    Some seats are probably harmful to some individuals, but once again we get a big splash of journalistic hype.


    "Bike seats pose risk

    A raft of new studies suggest that cyclists, particularly men, should be careful which bicycle seats they choose.

    The studies add to earlier evidence that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence.

    Some saddle designs are more damaging than others, scientists say. But even so-called ergonomic seats can be harmful, the research finds. The dozen or so studies, from peer-reviewed journals, are summarized in three articles in September's Journal of Sexual Medicine.

    In a bluntly worded editorial with the articles, Dr. Steven Schrader, a reproductive health expert who studies cycling at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, said he believed that it was no longer a question of "whether or not bicycle riding on a saddle causes erectile dysfunction."

    Instead, he said in an interview, "the question is, 'What are we going to about it?' "

    The studies, by researchers at Boston University and in Italy, found that the more a person rides, the greater the risk of impotence or loss of libido. And researchers in Austria have found that many mountain bikers experience saddle-related trauma that leads to small, calcified masses inside the scrotum.

    This does not mean that people should stop cycling, Schrader said. And those who ride bikes rarely or for short periods need not worry.

    But riders who spend many hours on a bike each week should be concerned, he said. And he suggested that the bicycle industry design safer saddles and stop trivializing the risks of the existing seats."
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  2. #2
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    15,267
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's my freshly submitted letter to the editor. I'll let you know if they print it:

    "After a several-year hiatus, here we go again, with another article suggesting a link between bicycling and erectile dysfunction. Instead of saying there is no longer a question of "whether or not bicycle riding on a saddle causes erectile dysfunction," Dr. Schrader should more properly have stated that SOME saddles in SOME orientations are harmful to SOME men. He then challenges, "What are we going to do about it?" I am going to continue to do the same thing I have done for over 100k miles of road cycling, i.e., sit atop a properly positioned old-fashioned tensioned leather racing saddle with a "pointy nose." Interested individuals can refer to http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html to learn how to select and how to adjust a bicycle saddle."
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  3. #3
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    Kona Jake, Scott CR1, Dahon SpeedPro
    Posts
    6,008
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And if you eat too many apple seeds you'll die. I'm so tired of the saddle "controversy".

    Oh, and REPOST^N.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  4. #4
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    8,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rather than media hype, I'd be more interested in the actual cases of men whose impotence was caused by a bicycle seat, and exactly why it was caused. This article states that there is a direct link between hours spent riding and impotence. Is it hours spent, or improperly adjusted or designed seats?

    If, as the article states, there is something "we need to do about it," what do they suggest? Do we really need to revolutionize seat design, or do we just need to adjust our seats properly?

    I'd really like to see the scientific studies that explain exactly why some riders develop problems and the vast majority do not. I want them to show me the numbers and prove their case that impotence is related to the number of hours spent on a bike, rather than improper seat adjustment.

    I once experience numbness in my groin area when riding to work. I changed (lowered) my seat height by no more than the smallest fraction of an inch, and it completely eliminated the problem. The tiniest difference in seat height can make a world of difference, in my experience (not to mention seat angle, etc.)

    If "riding too much" is the cause, why isn't impotence rampant amongst bicycle racers? What is the rate of impotence among racers, who log a ridiculous number of hours on the saddle?
    Last edited by LittleBigMan; 10-13-05 at 09:27 AM.
    No worries

  5. #5
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    8,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's an interesting read:

    (links-- http://www.skepticism.net/articles/2001/000049.html
    http://www.rightofway.org/research/wilting.html)


    Do Bicycle Seats Cause Impotence

    By Brian Carnell

    Wednesday, September 5, 2001

    The Washington Post's Roy Furchgott recently wrote an excellent article looking back at claims a few years ago that bicycle seats impeded the flow of blood to the penis causing impotence in male riders. Although bicycle seats designed to prevent this are new widely available, the impotence claim appears to have no scientific grounding.

    As Furchgott reports, the episode was started after an article in Bicycling magazine in 1997 that cited an unpublished study by urologist Irwin Goldstein. Major media outlets such as "20/20" picked up the story and soon Goldstein was giving quotes like, "There are two kinds of cyclists: those who are impotent and those who will be."

    But even today, Goldstein's study has never been published by a peer-reviewed journal. In fact when Furchgott asked Goldstein for a copy of his paper or the data behind his claims, Goldstein told him that they were unavailable, but that he would describe the results of his study over the phone.

    There have been a number of studies on this published in peer-reviewed journals, but most of them appear to have had fundamental flaws, not the least of which is that the largest study to date study only 160 men.

    William Steers, the chairman of the urology department at the University of Virginia School of Medicine in Charlottesville and a critic of Goldstein's claims, notes that if bicycles do cause male impotence it is hard to explain the continued fertility of men in countries where bicycle use is almost ubiquitous. As Steers puts it, "In China 90 percent of the male population cycles, and they don't seem to have a problem maintaining the population."

    More importantly, Steers points out, it was a bit odd for the media to give such huge scrutiny to an activity like cycling which is a healthy form of exercise when behaviors like smoking, obesity and inactivity are much bigger risk factors in male impotence.

    This whole episode is an almost textbook case of advocacy research trumpeted by the media despite lacking any credible scientific basis.

    Source:

    Much riding on a sore subject. Roy Furchgott, The Washington Post, August 28, 2001.



    Here's another, more humorous look:

    Get Off That Bike If You Value Your Penis
    by Charlie McCorkell

    The author is the proprietor of Bicycle Habitat, the favorite bike shop of this site's maintainer. Charlie delivered the following paper at a conference sponsored by the New York University School of Medicine in December, 2000. The conference discussed, inter alia, the supposed problem of cycling-induced impotence, which has been the making of several medical careers recently. The main offender is a Dr. Irwin Goldstein, who also spoke at this conference.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Before I presented Dr. Goldstein did his customary attack on bike saddles, and Dr McCullough presented a power point show hitting the highlights of research to date and the health benefits of cycling.-- Charlie)

    I'd like to thank Dr. McCullough for inviting me here today. I am both very appreciative and very nervous about this opportunity. I'm nervous because it's been a while since I addressed a large group, and, like most men, when the subject of "erectile dysfunction" (ED) comes up, all I want to do is put my knees together and put my hand in my pocket.

    "Men should never ride bicycles. Riding should be banned and outlawed. It is the most irrational form of exercise I could ever bring to discussion." So says Dr Irwin Goldstein.

    Over the years doctors have sent me many clients. They have come with stories of heart problems, diabetes, hypertension, mid-life weight gain, osteoporosis, and musculo-skeletal problems, all of which are addressable by a regular exercise routine. They have chosen bicycling because it is convenient, and fun. Over the years cycling has also sent many patients to doctors. Most went to emergency rooms or orthopedists. But when Bicycling magazine and 20/20 did their infamous pieces on cycling and ED, I thought I was probably sending some of my customers to urologists as well.

    It wasn't until a month ago, when I got a chance to see the abstracts on the studies and some of the data, that I realized that what I had believed for the last 3 years might be wrong, and what I believed for the 20 years before that might be right: Cycling is good for your sex life.

    The principal study citing a possible ED - cycling link is the Schwarzer study - AUA Abstract 952. This is adose-response survey study comparing the responses of cyclists and swimmers. The study found cyclists were twice as likely to suffer severe impotence than swimmers. Unfortunately, the report did not adjust the results for the fact the swimmers were on average 10 years younger than the cyclists, nor did the abstract detail the margin of error in the survey, which would push the impotency rates between the cyclists and swimmers into a statistical tie. In political terms, It's too close to call. The final blow to this survey came when a colleague of mine, Bud Hoffacker, the owner of Avocet cycling products, graphed the impotency rates of the cyclists against the findings of the Mass. Male Aging Study and demonstrated that when compared to the general male population, cyclists were half as likely to suffer severe impotence and 1/3 as likely to suffer any form of impotence. The conclusion he drew from the study is that cycling may not be as beneficial as swimming at mitigating or eliminating impotence. Also he concluded, at a minimum cycling does not expose riders to a higher risk of impotence.

    The other major study was AUA abstract 941, titled "You don't have to ride in the Tour de France". This was a backwards study in which 1600 men with ED were surveyed and the 81 men self reporting that they believed bicycling was 50% responsible for their ED were studied. From this the authors concluded that "Bicycle riding associated impotence occurs in different forms of bicycle riding and riding exposures." In my shop a customer will come in with a flat tire, and he will often tell me why he got a flat. He will be wrong about the tire being punctured 2% of the time and wrong about the cause of the flat 50% of the time, I wonder if these same people can diagnose why they got a flat penis. What I would really like to see is some hard facts on cycling and ED.

    The part of this survey which really jumped out at me was that 26% of the participants said they used aero handle bars. This is a system that moves your body into a more aerodynamic position by moving your center of gravity forward and down. This also has the effect of putting more weight on the perineal area. These riders, while making up 26% of the study group, make up about 1/10 of 1% of cyclists. This definitely suggests a risk area or a major flaw in the self identification of the study group.

    Thankfully, for me, I'm moving off the topic of ED and onto safer ground: actual riding experience.

    Over the last month I've spoken with a fairly large number of bicycle dealers, bicycle seat manufacturers and cyclists. Most of them wanted to make sure I told you about the health benefits of cycling, and how you as doctors should be shouting from the roof tops, or preferably from your bicycle seats, that everyone should be out riding bicycles because it's good for them, good for the environment and it's fun. I also heard over and over again denials about ED and stories from both riders and their partners about how cycling improves their sex life. One story from a couple on a multi day AIDS fund raiser got especially steamy.

    When talking about cycling and ED it is important to keep in mind the Chinese experience. China has more people, more bicycles and more cyclists then any other country. Is this a coincidence? I remember seeing a news piece recently saying that the Chinese government was sending their top 20 cyclists to the US because they heard we were having erection problems in Florida.

    One thing that came out over and over again is that most male cyclists who have logged any significant milage, 100 miles or more per week, have experienced genital numbness. This is usually referred to as "numb nuts" in the bicycle world. I have experienced it a half dozen times in my life. What constantly amazes cyclists is that for most of us, it disappears within an hour of getting off the bike and has no discernible effect on erectibility. (In New York, bike messengers and commuters don't seem to suffer from this condition much, I think because of the on-and-off riding style needed in New York traffic.)

    The response among cyclists to genital numbness is generally to adjust their bike fit, change their saddle or change their riding style, and based upon my conversations this approach usually results in getting rid of future numbness. Better fit can be used to improve rider efficiency and eliminate many other cycling related aches and pains. Many bike shops have at least one person competent to adjust a bicycle well. There are also several fairly sophisticated bicycle fitting systems on the market. I've bought and used almost all of them with good success.

    Good fit begins with the client. What kind of riding do they do, what kind of riding would they like to do, what special needs do they have, what kind of bicycle do they have. Before we can fit the rider to the bike we must know the rider and their bike.

    The final position for the client can be anywhere from a road fit where 30% of the weight is on the pedals and 30% is on the hands and 40% is on the saddle to a relaxed beach fit with 10% of the weight on the hands, 30% on the pedals and 60% on the saddle.

    Most fits start with leg length and adjusting the saddle height. There is a range of good saddle heights for any given rider. We usually start off by adjusting the saddle height to eliminate rocking of the hips when pedaling on a bike trainer. The saddle is generally set level to the ground or slightly downward. The foot is then positioned with the ball of the foot over the pedal spindle. The neutral seat position forward and aft is next found by dropping a plumb line from the bottom of the knee and positioning the seat so the plumb cuts through the pedal axle. Then the stem is fitted to give the rider the desired feel he wants. The main concession most cyclists make to genital numbness is to lower their saddle a little, removing weight from the seat, and tilting the saddle a little downward raising the perineal area off the saddle nose.

    Some people have tried to resolve the issue of genital numbness by changing their equipment. Most of this activity is around saddle swaps, usually focusing on the new series of anatomically correct saddles. Dr Minkow of Specialized Minkow wedge fame has reported excellent anecdotal success with his saddle and SERFAS had their RX saddle tested by the UCSD sports medicine group. Their conclusion: "The Serfas prototype experimentally designed to limit central perineal pressure produced significantly less subjective and objective numbness compared to the standard seat in a one hour stationary cycling protocol. It appears that through bicycle seat design and innovation, perineal numbness can be decreased and more importantly may eliminate cycling associated perineal numbness and erectile dydfunction."

    This report like some others have presupposed the truth of the unproven thesis relating bike saddles and impotency.

    Padded bike shorts and padded bike underwear is also used to cushion and spread the contact area with the saddle, bike gloves are used to cushion the hands so more weight can be put on the hands and bike shoes are employed to keep the foot in the correct position and stop the heel from dropping, which may cause more weight to be transferred to the saddle.

    The other important area touched upon by cyclists was how importantly riding style affects numbness. Shifting positions, occasionally rising out of the saddle, and so on can have a profound impact on genital numbness.

    Now for the bad news: According to a study by the Sporting Goods Manufacturers, cycling participation has dropped from 53 million self identified regular cyclist in 1997 to 42 million in 2000. This is an unprecedented drop in participation. Some in the bike industry believe that Dr. Goldstein's remarks (and the mini industry he spawned) are at least partially responsible. The really bad news is that most of these lost cyclists have not replaced cycling with any other activity. Given the many health benefits of cycling a great many Americans may lead shorter, less healthy and less potent lives as a result of the incomplete research provided to date.

    I encourage you all to encourage any patients you may see who are cyclists to try alternative bicycle fit if appropriate and I encourage all of you to encourage everyone you know to bicycle.

    Every disease has a poster child. The bicycle industry has Lance Armstrong as its poster child on erectile dysfunction. Lance Armstrong has now won the Tour de France twice, but 4 years ago he was suffering intense pain in his testicles. After going to the doctor it was discovered he had testicular cancer and would need to have one removed the next morning. He was informed that because of subsequent chemo or X-ray treatment he might be rendered sterile. The doctor told him to go to the sperm bank and make a donation. Talk about pressure. You have one chance and one chance only to ever have children, and if he had to think about saddle induced erectile dysfunction I don't know what would have happened. Fortunately, aggressive chemo killed the cancer that had spread through his body, he twice won the Tour de France and his stored sperm have made him a father. Proving that a great cyclist can always rise to the occasion.

    Thank you.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No worries

  6. #6
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    But the reason this is in the news again is because the original studies have been duplicated and the results validated. These scientists and urologists have discovered a link, then independently confirmed it, between cycling and male reproductive problems.

    Many of the comments I see on these forums remind me of smokers denying the link between cigarettes and lung cancer: "I smoke and I don't have lung cancer, therefore the risk is not there" or "My grandad smoked for 65 years and never got cancer." This type of anecdotal evidence does not dispel the carefully executed studies now out.

    I'm sorry, because I'm a serious cyclist and don't want the studies to be true either. But I can tell you that I have nice equipment and carefully adjusted saddles and still have experienced numbness in the fellas after long rides. I imagine nearly all of us have. If so, don't reject these findings just because you don't like them.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  7. #7
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    8,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars
    Many of the comments I see on these forums remind me of smokers denying the link between cigarettes and lung cancer: "I smoke and I don't have lung cancer, therefore the risk is not there" or "My grandad smoked for 65 years and never got cancer." This type of anecdotal evidence does not dispel the carefully executed studies now out.

    ...don't reject these findings just because you don't like them.
    The problem is not cyclists rejecting the link between cycling and impotence. The problem is cyclists and potential cyclists overreacting from fear, which is induced by media hype.

    Unfortunately, we, the great unwashed, often put scientists and doctors on a pedestal of perfection. In reality, they are just as often wrong, partially wrong, and sometimes even mislead by the strong desire for prestige, recognition and success.

    So when we hear "scientific studies" linking bicycling with something as frightening as impotence, we are intimidated into belief. Especially given the history of these claims, I'm remaining skeptical until it's proven more completely to me.
    No worries

  8. #8
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    9,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't want to reject it because I don't like it, I want to reject it because it doesn't seem to be a strong claim that doesn't seem to have been verified very well.

    I've had some numbness (after a couple of Randoneur rides) but I've never had a problem with ED.

    I can't think of a single male that would cycle if they felt that doing so would rob them of the use of Mr. Happy.

    I tend to believe the explaination posted by LittleBigMan where it says,

    the report did not adjust the results for the fact the swimmers were on average 10 years younger than the cyclists, nor did the abstract detail the margin of error in the survey, which would push the impotency rates between the cyclists and swimmers into a statistical tie...the findings of the Mass. Male Aging Study demonstrated that when compared to the general male population, cyclists were half as likely to suffer severe impotence and 1/3 as likely to suffer any form of impotence.
    A local news broadcast medical reported once did a feature on cycling and ED and I sent an email saying they probably had done more harm than good with the piece because most males will just equate cycing with ED and they will stay away from the bike, in spite of the fact that the health gains from riding do more to eliminate ED than develoup it.

    I'm sure there are some cyclists that have ED I just have a hard time believing it is a significant number.
    Last edited by closetbiker; 10-13-05 at 03:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member peripatetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    All 70s and 80s, only steel.
    Posts
    2,124
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just posted about the NYTimes article on this subject last week. Don't think that outside of the headline, it was all that sensationalistic, merely reporting what had been published this past month in two very reputable medical journals (not those "non-peer-reviewed" journals mentioned by another poster above.) Don't think it hurts to consider one's personal prejudices in the light of new scientific studies, and contemplate the potential validity of such studies. "Here we go again" is such an easy way to turn anyone who's convinced docs and scientists are all quacks away from actually reading the articles, maybe even checking out the actual study results.

    FWIW: common misperception about smoking is that the grave threat is to a smoker's lungs; in fact, the health problem smoking is most directly linked to and correlated with is heart disease. Far more smokers suffer heart attacks or other heart-related illnesses than come down with lung cancer.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,851
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    New York Times Article on Bike Riding and Impotence 4 October

    Read post #80 and then see how you feel about those articles.

  11. #11
    Bent_Rider
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    SF Bay area
    My Bikes
    Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road
    Posts
    1,248
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No problem, mates. A recumbent bike also solves problems with the neck and wrist. And allows you a clear view straight ahead without bending your neck up. And some of them are heck-a-fast, like the Aero I'm riding.


  12. #12
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    9,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    New York Times Article on Bike Riding and Impotence 4 October

    Read post #80 and then see how you feel about those articles.
    A good post.

    I like,

    So according to the raw data, ED risk is lowest among those who ride a lot, who ride fast and who are not overweight...you can only wonder how they could overlook such basic things as pedaling style and bike fit...participants naturally droped out of the study with out warning...isn't it reasonable to assume that particpants experienceing little or no ED would be the ones most likely to stop participating?... the "rush to publish" really makes researches make-do with poor data.
    Sorry, the argument that traditional bicycle saddles, the kind with a narrow rear and pointy nose, play a role in sexual impotence is, ahem, limp. It seems the logic of this flawed argument could be extended() to the ridiculous argument that aerobic exercise should be avoided because of the example of runner Jim Fixs' and cyclist Ed Burkes' deaths from heart attacks.
    Last edited by closetbiker; 10-13-05 at 02:47 PM.

  13. #13
    Badger Biker ctyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Beloit, Wisconsin
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Saeco CAD-3, Surly Cross Check
    Posts
    974
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If these studies were actually true, there would be no male cyclists! A slow news day brings out the old, worn out stories with a "new" scientific study.

  14. #14
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here is a quick synopsis from the Journal of Sexual Health of these studies.

    "These three peer-reviewed articles research the pathophysiology of the erectile dysfunction (ED) associated with bicycling. They together report that the high pressures in the perineum while straddling a saddle compress and temporarily occlude penile blood flow. They also hypothesized that the lining vessels of the compressed arteries become damaged, thus leading to potential permanent artery blockage.


    However, not all men who ride bicycles will develop erectile dysfunction. One past study suggested that sexual health consequences adversely affect 5% of riders (based on survey data that would therefore include 1,000,000 riding men with ED).


    "One would not expect that every bicyclist would suffer from ED any more than one would expect every smoker would get lung cancer," says Schrader. "The next steps are quite clear. Effective strategies based on sound ergonometrics and urogenital physiologic principles and testing are needed to reduce the risk of erectile dysfunction from bicycle riding." Schrader further concluded that "the health benefits from having unrestricted vascular flow to and from the penis are self-evident."


    Dr. Schraderís ground-breaking research in 2002 reported on the hazards of bicycle riding in police officers. This past innovative research concluded that nighttime erections were of poorer quality in biking police officers compared to non-biking police officers. Furthermore, nighttime erection quality decreased as seat pressure increased and as the average number of hours in the saddle a day increased.


    To better appreciate the scope of the problem, a 2002 National Survey of Pedestrian and Bicyclist Attitudes and Behaviors was sponsored by the US Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and Bureau of Transportation Statistics, in part to gauge bicycle use. According to the survey, approximately 57 million people, 27.3% of the population age 16 or older, rode a bicycle at least once during the summer of 2002 (www.bicyclinginfo.org/survey2002.htm)."

    I haven't been able to look at the actula articles, so I can't really comment other than to say that the journals are respected and peer reviewed. This makes me less likely to dismiss them as quickly as some of you...
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  15. #15
    Senior Member trackhub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    In a state of 5th Dimension, where size has no meaning.
    My Bikes
    Gunnar Street Dog
    Posts
    1,948
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It is interesting how this whole thing did go away for a few years, and now it's back. Now, why would that be?

    I know male cyclists in my age group (late 40's) and up, who have been riding their entire adult lives, since before saddles became so much better in terms of design.
    These cyclists are no longer racers, but they ride a lot. Some do the spring/fall charity rides. They are married, and have kids, ranging in ages from young adult to rug-crawlers.

    Question: Weren't Doctor Goldstein's claims attacked before by well-respected medical authorities?

    If I were a member of the foil hat crowd, I'd say it was all a plot to sell Viagra, "or something". No, I'm not totally dismissing the whole thing. (I do use a Terry Liberator saddle. Works quite nicely, thank you.) It's just that the whole business is starting to remind me of Y2K.
    Last edited by trackhub; 10-13-05 at 06:33 PM.

  16. #16
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by trackhub
    It is interesting how this whole thing did go away for a few years, and now it's back. Now, why would that be?

    I know male cyclists in my age group (late 40's) and up, who have been riding their entire adult lives, since before saddles became so much better in terms of design.
    These cyclists are no longer racers, but they ride a lot. Some do the spring/fall charity rides. They are married, and have kids, ranging in ages from young adult to rug-crawlers.

    Question: Weren't Doctor Goldstein's claims attacked before by well-respected medical authorities?

    If I were a member of the foil hat crowd, I'd say it was all a plot to sell Viagra, "or something". No, I'm not totally dismissing the whole thing. (I do use a Terry Liberator saddle. Works quite nicely, thank you.) It's just that the whole business is starting to remind me of Y2K.

    Because, as pointed out above, the original studies were expanded upon and replicated...
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  17. #17
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    9,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It still makes no sense to me that if a person rode a bike and develouped this problem because of ridng the bike, that person would continue to ride the bike.

    Isn't it a basic tenet of being male to (as a character from the movie "Magnolia", Frank T.J. Mackey - played by Tom Cruise - would say) "respect the cock"? - sorry for that reference for the more shy of the group -

    Also, what about the obvious benefit that cyclists reap in the area of circulation that is often the root cause in ED? I'd find it hard to believe that more individuals haven't benefited from this improved blood flow and "cleaner" vascular health from cycling than those that may have had some problems with the high pressures in the perineum while straddling a saddle compress and temporarily occlude penile blood flow.

    Bicycles have been around for 130 years and they are being used primarily by males. Cycling is one of the most popular activities that males take part in and many cyclists put in thousands of miles each and every year. Worldwide, bicycles outnumber cars as transportation, by a ratio of 2 to 1

    If this is a real problem, I can't believe the dedication males have to cycle. I know if I couldn't get it up after a ride, I wouldn't ride. I don't like riding that much.
    Last edited by closetbiker; 10-13-05 at 09:16 PM.

  18. #18
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by closetbiker
    It still makes no sense to me that if a person rode a bike and develouped this problem because of ridng the bike, that person would continue to ride the bike.

    Isn't it a basic tenet of being male to (as a character from the movie "Magnolia", Frank T.J. Mackey - played by Tom Cruise - would say) "respect the cock"? - sorry for that reference for the more shy of the group -

    Also, what about the obvious benefit that cyclists reap in the area of circulation that is often the root cause in ED? I'd find it hard to believe that more individuals haven't benefited from this improved blood flow and "cleaner" vascular health from cycling than those that may have had some problems with the high pressures in the perineum while straddling a saddle compress and temporarily occlude penile blood flow.

    Bicycles have been around for 130 years and they are being used primarily by males. Cycling is one of the most popular activities that males take part in and many cyclists put in thousands of miles each and every year. Worldwide, bicycles outnumber cars as transportation, by a ratio of 2 to 1

    If this is a real problem, I can't believe the dedication males have to cycle. I know if I couldn't get it up after a ride, I wouldn't ride. I don't like riding that much.
    But the relationship between riding the bike and the developing problems may not be directly observable in that fashion ie: ride the bike, try to have sex but no erection. Instead, the research appears to be saying that this is an incremental problem that develops over time, sort of like salt consumption and high blood pressure. You don't put salt on some fires and then bang, get bulging veins .

    Bicycles have been around for a long time... but so have attempts to increase sexual performance through aphrodisiacs and the like.

    Of course, every man on these forums gets diamond hard erections on demand. That goes without saying. Nonetheless, I urge evryone to read the original articles (not an interpretation of some reporter or forum member) and make their own decisions about the relative risks.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  19. #19
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by joejack951
    New York Times Article on Bike Riding and Impotence 4 October

    Read post #80 and then see how you feel about those articles.

    That was an interesting and well reasoned critique. However, it does not invalidate the study conclusions. I haven't read the original article yet and the poster does not discuss what statistical anlysis was used. One can use certain procedures to calculate the contribution a certain variable makes, amoungst other variables, to a certain outcome. So even though the riders varied on many dimensions, one can still determine if a common variable impacts something like erectile problems.

    It stands to reason that someone with higher BMI (body mass index) may have more problems and still have something to do with the author's claims. A heavier man will press down harder on the seat, after all.

    But even if this stduy has flaws (and every study has flaws) there is converging evidence, from many sources and techniques, that are supporting this resaercher's conclusions.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  20. #20
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    2,495
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...specialized-04

    Go to this link where a live cyclist's blood flow is restricted by 96% after only two minutes on a bike seat.
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  21. #21
    Bent_Rider
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    SF Bay area
    My Bikes
    Bacchetta Aero, BikeE, Bruce Gordon Rock n Road
    Posts
    1,248
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ditch the wedgie and get bent, your prostate will thank you for it.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Wilmington, DE
    My Bikes
    2003 Specialized Hardrock, 2004 LOOK KG386i, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1
    Posts
    8,851
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20...specialized-04

    Go to this link where a live cyclist's blood flow is restricted by 96% after only two minutes on a bike seat.
    Ok, but does restricted blood flow while riding actually cause any problems after the fact?

  23. #23
    Senior Member closetbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    9,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mars
    Of course, every man on these forums gets diamond hard erections on demand. That goes without saying. Nonetheless, I urge evryone to read the original articles (not an interpretation of some reporter or forum member) and make their own decisions about the relative risks.
    I have to admit I haven't read the original articles, mostly because the reports I've read about them (mostly in newspapers and some on the net) gave me the impression the articles were fundamentaly flawed and if the claims were true, cycling would not be nearly as popular as it is.

    I don't doubt that the compresion of the area could lead to temporarily restricted blood flow and some other problems, but the body is remarkably resilient and recovers extremely well and recovery should be quick. I could see this may be a problem for some ultra long distance riders or extreme mountain bikers, but for riders not so radical, it seems on first glance to be quite a stretch.

    In time, this will all come out one way or the other. If you would have asked me 10 years ago that a product like Viagra would be as big a seller as it is today (I mean even Hef takes it!!!) I would have been skepticle as well.

  24. #24
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    8,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, for every scientific article, there's another that's worth considering:

    Erection problems may signal heart disease

    United Press International

    Wednesday, October 12, 2005


    WASHINGTON, Oct 11, 2005 (UPI via COMTEX) -- Men who have difficulty achieving an erection may be at high risk for clogged arteries and heart disease, a study released Tuesday indicates.

    The study, which appears in the Oct. 18 issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology, found men with erectile dysfunction were more likely to have the beginning signs of atherosclerosis, or clogging and hardening of the arteries due to the buildup of plaque, than men without the disorder.

    The findings held true even when the men did not exhibit other traditional risk factors of atherosclerosis, such as high cholesterol, smoking or diabetes.

    Erectile dysfunction has been associated with hardened arteries, but it remains unclear whether it indicates a subclinical disease that may not have produced symptoms yet. The Italian researchers who conducted the study concluded erectile dysfunction may be an independent and early warning sign of cardiovascular problems.

    "Erectile dysfunction should be part of a cardiovascular risk assessment," Emilio Chiurlia, the study's lead author and a professor at the University of Modena and Reggio Emilia in Modena, Italy, said in a statement.

    "These patients should be considered at high risk for coronary artery disease and should have high priority for aggressive treatment," Chiurlia added.

    The clinical definition of erectile dysfunction is the persistent inability to maintain an erection. An estimated 30 million men in the United States and 100 million men worldwide suffer from this disorder.


    More...

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/n...ory_27416.html

    We all know that bicycling tends to increase circulation, which would help prevent erectile dysfunction.
    Also, how do we know that bicyclists who develop ED aren't also part of the group of men who are showing early warning signs of atherosclerosis?

    You can't take one set of findings and make sweeping judgements without considering all contributing factors.
    Last edited by LittleBigMan; 10-14-05 at 11:55 AM.
    No worries

  25. #25
    Sumanitu taka owaci LittleBigMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    8,945
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Another interesting read:

    Pelvic Exercises Useful for Erection Problems

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/n...ory_27130.html
    No worries

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •