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  1. #1
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    Cyclist killed by bus in North Carolina

    Latest Cycling News for October 17, 2005, CyclingNews.com

    36 year-old cyclist Todd Weaver has been killed after being hit by a bus in Charlotte, North Carolina, USA last Friday afternoon. According to the Charlotte Observer, Weaver was riding north along South Tryon at approximately 5:00pm when the southbound CATS bus, driven by 50 year-old Jerry Miller, turned left into a parking lot. Weaver hit the bus near the door and was killed almost immediately, as medics were unable to revive him at the scene.

    The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver. At approximately 4:30pm on Friday, Miller hit a planter as he turned from Fourth Street into South Tryon. No-one was seriously injured. According to police records, Miller had had five accidents in the previous four and a half years. He has not been charged in the Weaver death.

    More information, including funeral details, can be found at www.toddweaver.org

    (All rights reserved/Copyright Knapp Communications Pty Limited 2005)
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...t05/oct17news2

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=anders]The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver. [QUOTE]

    No the tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller has not been charged in the Weaver death.

  3. #3
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    CATS bus strikes, kills cyclist

    11:29 PM EDT on Friday, October 14, 2005
    By 6NEWS staff

    A CATS bus driver with an extensive history of accidents struck and killed a bicycle rider moments after an accident that forced several passengers to change busses, police said Friday.

    According to police, the accident happened just after 5 p.m. in the 3100 block of South Tryon Street, near the intersection of South Tryon and Remount Road.

    Jerry Miller, the driver involved in the accident, was headed back to the CATS depot, when he hit 36-year-old Todd Weaver of Concord. He has had seven accidents in his 4 1/2 years of employment, according to police records.

    Moments before hitting the cyclist, Miller had hit a planter in what CATS officials described as a "minor property damage incident." Seven people reporting minor injuries were taken to the hospital, and passengers were taken off the bus and transferred to another.

    Another CATS driver collided with a car earlier Friday morning at 5th and 7th streets, sending 12 people to the hospital. Tuesday, a bus driver ran a stop sign and had to swerve to avoid a car.

    6NEWS reporter Rebecca Lindstrom and WCNC.com producer Andre Dykes contributed to this report.

    CATS cut the number of bus-involved accidents in half last fiscal year, a CATS spokesman said.

    Police have not filed any charges against Miller.

    From http://www.wcnc.com/news/topstories/....f45a2866.html (requires registration)

  4. #4
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    Cyclist dies in collision with off-duty city bus
    The driver of a CATS bus that collided with and killed a bicycle rider Friday on South Tryon Street had been in another wreck 30 minutes earlier and was returning the bus to the station, city officials said.

    The bicyclist and bus collided in front of the entrance to the South Tryon Bus Facility near Clanton Road just before 5 p.m. The bike rider, identified as Todd Matthew Weaver, was thrown about 20 feet and landed in the driveway, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police said.

    The bus driver, who Charlotte Area Transit System officials identified as 50-year-old Jerry Lee Miller, was not injured. A CATS driver for 4 1/2 years, Miller previously had five other on-duty wrecks, CATS spokeswoman Jean Leier said.

    After Friday's wrecks, he was placed on unpaid leave. He was also tested for drugs, which is routine in wrecks with injuries. The results weren't immediately available.

    At about 4:30 p.m. Friday, Miller hit a planter as he turned bus No. 707 left from Fourth Street onto South Tryon, Leier said. The wreck was minor, but Medic took six passengers to hospitals for evaluations. Miller was told to take his bus back to the South Tryon transit center and then report for a drug test.

    Less than 30 minutes later, Miller, southbound on Tryon, was making a left into the parking lot when the bus collided with Weaver, who was riding north, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police Sgt. Ricky Robbins said. Medics worked on 36-year-old Weaver, but pronounced him dead in the driveway. He had been wearing a helmet and other gear.

    Weaver lives in Concord and works in Charlotte. Robbins said Weaver rode his bike to work every day.

    Dan Seeman, who works on Clanton and was headed to a nearby hardware store, said he saw the collision. The bicyclist was a big guy, he said, and had gotten his attention.

    "One moment he was alive and riding by me," Seeman said, "and the next he was dead."

    Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.

    The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.

    Robbins said officers will complete an investigation and turn their findings over to the Mecklenburg County district attorney, who will decide if charges are appropriate.

    Leier said she did not know details of Miller's other wrecks, but said they involved property damage and no injuries. She also did not know if he had been tested for drugs previously, but said drivers are terminated if they test positive.

    Leier would not say whether it was uncommon for a driver to be involved in seven wrecks. She said union guidelines say drivers can face termination if they have four in 36 consecutive months. They can be fired sooner depending on the severity, she added.

    Three of Miller's five previous wrecks were within 32 consecutive months, she said. After Friday, Miller had five wrecks in 32 months.

    CATS supervisors report to all wrecks and have the discretion, Leier said, to allow the driver to take the bus back to the facility or to call someone else.

    Melissa Manware: (704) 358-5041; mmanware@charlotteobserver.com.
    From http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/12908957.htm (requires registration)

  5. #5
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    Todd Matthew Weaver
    August 4, 1969 - October 14, 2005
    On Friday, October 14, 2005, Todd was killed in an accident.

    The funeral and memorial service will be held at Hickory Grove Baptist Church in Concord, North Carolina on Wednesday, October 19th at 1pm. Please note that there are two campuses. The funeral and memorial service will be held at the North campus.

    The family will receive friends and family at the Hartsell Funeral Home in Concord, North Carolina on Tuesday, October 18th from 6pm to 8pm. The address is 460 Branchview Drive NE, Concord NC.
    In lieu of flowers, the family requests that donations be made to The King's Chapel, Clifford R. Scoles Treasurer, 1423 Kelvin Court, Cincinnati, Ohio 45240. Please address checks to "The King's Chapel" and note "Weaver Children Support Fund" on the check memo line. (The King's Chapel is Todd's brother's church.)

    Pam Weaver
    4778 Asherton Place
    Concord, NC 28027
    (704) 262-3735

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by iana
    The bus driver, who Charlotte Area Transit System officials identified as 50-year-old Jerry Lee Miller, was not injured.
    Big surprise. Bus hits bike. Bus driver survives.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by iana
    Leier said she did not know details of Miller's other wrecks, but said they involved property damage and no injuries.
    Oh! 7 other wrecks, but only property damage. And only 1 death. No problem. Let him keep driving the bus.

    Shouldn't they have been able to predict that eventually Miller was going to hurt someone?

    Not only should Miller go to jail, but the bus company owners should go to jail.

  8. #8
    Ancient Clydesdale 2 wheeler's Avatar
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    The bus driver was obviously at fault and should be charged with manslaughter. I have observed that "public servants" get away with things that routinely land the common citizen in jail....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iana
    Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door. The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.
    He must have hit the bus terribly hard for that to happen.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Thank you trekets. Too many times on this forum, the mob assembles and starts looking for some rope and a tree.

    By the way, what would change if the bus driver had a previously perfect driving record?

  11. #11
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    Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.
    Not as clear cut as the "bus hits bike" makes it seem....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    By the way, what would change if the bus driver had a previously perfect driving record?
    It would show that the driver of the bus had not previously had several accidents prior to killing this person. Really now, are you suggesting that a man with that many accidents, including one a short time before where he showed that he was not properly aware of the space his bus occupied, should still have been driving for a living?

    I haven't had that many accidents in my entire life, let alone within 32 months.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan828
    It would show that the driver of the bus had not previously had several accidents prior to killing this person. Really now, are you suggesting that a man with that many accidents, including one a short time before where he showed that he was not properly aware of the space his bus occupied, should still have been driving for a living?

    I haven't had that many accidents in my entire life, let alone within 32 months.
    Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?

    Too many of you are too quick to judge, and then you complain when no charges are filed. Rather than let my emotions take over, I'll ask the hard questions. Was the cyclist familiar with the area? The accident location was the driveway to the bus facility. Seems like a place to be extra wary of. Was the cyclist paying attention? Did he try to beat the bus? Did he even see it? Were cars parked along the side of the road? 5 PM, how visible was this cyclist. I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn. He either did not notice the cyclist, or misjudged his speed. So how did this cyclist fail to see a bus turning in front of him? Common sense dictates that when you come upon a driveway or side street, you need to look out for traffic entering and exiting.

    If anyone wants to challenge anything I've written, please provide some kind of evidence to support your position. While my sympathy goes out to the family of Mr. Weaver, I'm not so quick to put all the blame on either party.

  14. #14
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?
    It looks like a classic left-cross from the description so I'd say it's very highly likely the bus driver's fault entirely. For you:

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
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    Do they wear capes?
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    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    Was the cyclist familiar with the area?
    Whether or not the cyclist was familiar with the area has nothing to do with who was at fault. I don't think the police would ask the driver of a car involved in an accident if they were familiar with the area.

    Facts reported in article:
    The bus driver was heading southbound. The bicyclist was heading northbound. The bus driver was making a left hand turn across the northbound lane.

    Conclusion:
    Therefore, the bicyclist had the right of way. The bus driver should have yielded to the bicyclist as he should have yielded to any vehicle traveling northbound.

    Fact reported in article:
    The bicyclist hit the door near the front of the bus

    Conclusion:
    This indicates that the bus pulled in front of the bicyclist at the last second. Had the bicyclist hit the rear of the bus we might conclude that the bicyclist should have seen the idiot driver crossing his path but he hit the front of the bus.


    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    Too many of you are too quick to judge, and then you complain when no charges are filed. Rather than let my emotions take over, I'll ask the hard questions.
    Please read your next statement carefully. You make a very strong assumption.


    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn.

    How on earth can you be "sure" what the driver did or saw?

    And I notice that your statement says he made sure no cars were coming. You didn't mention bicycles or motorcycles which are traffic too. Obviously the driver did not make sure no traffic was coming. He pulled into the bicyclists path and the bicyclist hit the front of the bus. Any accident reconstruction expert would easily be able to conclude that the bus driver was at fault.


    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    5 PM, how visible was this cyclist.

    The cyclist would have been plenty visible at that time. Not an issue. This is certainly not a hard question?


    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    He either did not notice the cyclist, or misjudged his speed.

    You say the bus driver either (you used the words either so you yourself are making a judgement that what follows are the only two possibilities) 1) did not notice the cyclist or 2) misjugded his speed?

    If 1) "did not notice that cyclist", that is certainly the bus driver's fault. If he didn't see the bicyclist he was not looking carefully enough before crossing the lane to make the turn.

    If 2) "misjudged his speed", that is also the bus driver's fault. The bicyclist may having been riding hard, but I doubt (although cannot be certain based on the info) that he was going above the speed limit.


    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    While my sympathy goes out to the family of Mr. Weaver, I'm not so quick to put all the blame on either party.

    It doesn't sound like it. Based on information available, the bus driver is clearly at fault.
    Last edited by trekets; 10-18-05 at 07:21 AM.

  16. #16
    |+|+|+|+|+|+| * jack *'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anders
    <snip>The tragedy was compounded by the fact that Miller had a history of accidents, including one just half an hour before the one involving Weaver.<snip>
    Terrible!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by anders
    <snip>Miller had had five accidents in the previous four and a half years.<snip>
    Is this the standard for "professional" drivers?


    Quote Originally Posted by anders
    <snip>He has not been charged in the Weaver death. <snip>
    Hrrumph... business as usual.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus. A witness said the cyclist had his head down and was really moving. He hit the bus on the door side, hard enough to damage the door, and still fly 20ft. Not to make light of the death of this person, but what makes the cyclist always right?
    Before getting in to road bikes i was a mtb person. I took the hard trails ran that at speed and yes i had many crashes doing it (no injuries ever though i was knocked silly or out cold for a few secounds once read story)
    I was taring up the trail with a friend of mine knew every inch of the trail right down to the very tree root i hit. I was doing about 16 17 miles per hour going down the strait section of trail like i had done 100s of times in the past and hit the stupid root at a bad angle. When i came around a few secounds latter i watched as my friend was heading towards pointing backward from my original direction of travel. I was a solid 20 to 30 feet from the root that got my butt.

    I dont remember exactly what happened so the following is seound hand from him.

    He told me that he seen me hit the root at a angle. When i did it spun my bike around in a tail whip like fasion and tossed me a full 20+ feet with ease. He was suprised at just how far it launched me as he was only doing 14 to 16 mph and catching up.

    This cylist on the road bike who was killed could easly be tossed 20+ feet at evena measly 12 to 15 miles a hour. I read the artical it doesnt say if he was thrown and landed that far away or if he wass thrown and slid that far total. Remember i came to a rest at close to 30 feet from my bike and there was a visable few feet of slide marks on the ground.I was doing maybe 17 at best and made it 20 foot air distance. The crash was slow enough with little enough impact that my bike was undamaged. I slid 8 or 10 feet on uneven dirt with weeds, seedlings etc in my path.

    Roads while they will truely screw you up are much slicker than a dirt path you will slide further and faster on a road than on a trail.

    Thers a formula csi units use to determin how fast a car or body slid based on the distance it came to rest at.
    If you want to do a test your self do this.
    Get a milk jug fill it with 10 pounds of sand get going about 10 or 15 mph and then toss it with some force in front of you and see how far it slides.

  18. #18
    Senior Member egonlou's Avatar
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    Here is a picture of South Tryon Road by Remount Rd in charlotte. It is a major street with two lanes in each direction.

    [IMG]Near the intersection[/IMG]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    Wow. Who did he kill? Because based on the sparse info posted in this thread, one might assume that a cyclist ran into the side of the bus.
    Did you even read the thread? Clearly, the bus driver is guilty.

    If the bus pulled in front of the cyclist and the cyclist could not stop in time, the cyclist may have hit the bus, but the bus driver is at fault.

  20. #20
    You need a new bike supcom's Avatar
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    My prediction:

    The bus driver will ultimately be cited for 'failure to yield' or 'improper turn'. He'll lose his job and is unlikely to find a professional driving job for a long time (if ever). The bus company will get sued for damages and their insurance will pay a hefty sum in an out of court settlement to the family of the deceased cyclist.

    If you're lucky, you might read about the driver getting cited for the crash. You'll read nothing about the resulting lawsuit.

  21. #21
    Senior Member slagjumper's Avatar
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    The bus driver was probably thinking about how much trouble he was in for his last accident and failed to yield to on comming traffic. This has reminded me to get out the helmet mounted light this morning.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by trekets
    Quote Originally Posted by Expatriate
    I'm sure the driver checked to make sure no cars were coming, and made his turn.
    How on earth can you be "sure" what the driver did or saw?

    And I notice that your statement says he made sure no cars were coming. You didn't mention bicycles or motorcycles which are traffic too. Obviously the driver did not make sure no traffic was coming. He pulled into the bicyclists path and the bicyclist hit the front of the bus. Any accident reconstruction expert would easily be able to conclude that the bus driver was at fault.
    In this exchange, I think trekets is right, but Expatriate has an important point.
    While the bus driver is almost certainly technically at fault, per oboeguy:


    Quote Originally Posted by oboeguy
    It looks like a classic left-cross from the description so I'd say it's very highly likely the bus driver's fault entirely.
    Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

    Since no car crashed into the bus, it is apparent that there were no cars traveling along with the cyclist in the same direction at the same time. Therefore, the cyclist had no legal or practical obligation to keep to the right, especially considering he was approaching a bus depot entrance, and there was a bus coming from the other direction. Alarms should have been going off inside the cyclist's head for at least half a block. Now, it's possible that the cyclist was using the full lane and the bus driver still did not see him, though it's more likely that he was keeping to the right and not even paying attention. That, combined with a momentary lapse of attention on the part of a driver, spells disaster.
    Last edited by Helmet Head; 10-18-05 at 09:51 AM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    From one of the newspaper articles:

    Dan Seeman, who works on Clanton and was headed to a nearby hardware store, said he saw the collision. The bicyclist was a big guy, he said, and had gotten his attention.

    "One moment he was alive and riding by me," Seeman said, "and the next he was dead."

    Seeman said the man on the bicycle was riding fast and seemed to have his head down. The bike hit the bus near the door.

    The bus driver couldn't get his front door open, Seeman said, and exited from a back one. The driver checked on the bicyclist, told Seeman to call 911, then ran for help.

    It opens many possibilities on BOTH sides. IF (Big if, a decent road bike position might look like head down) he had his head down then the rider may have ridden into the side of the bus when he had very adequate time to stop. Other side is he may have been going fast, the driver saw him and assumed he had plenty of time to complete the turn. One last thing, it is VERY rare to see riders really flying at the extreem right where they can get 'lost' in the parked cars. So this is one big point on the side that he should have been seen.

  24. #24
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99
    IF (Big if, a decent road bike position might look like head down) he had his head down then the rider may have ridden into the side of the bus when he had very adequate time to stop. Other side is he may have been going fast, the driver saw him and assumed he had plenty of time to complete the turn. One last thing, it is VERY rare to see riders really flying at the extreem right where they can get 'lost' in the parked cars. So this is one big point on the side that he should have been seen.
    Good points, but none of this explains why the cyclist was not prepared (the crash is evidence that he was not) for the possibility that the bus driver would turn the oncoming bus left in front of the cyclist (either because the driver didn't see the cyclist or because he underestimated his speed), especially into a bus depot driveway. Even when properly positioned vehicularly "centerish" in the lane where motorists are more likely to be looking, a cyclist should always be prepared for a potential left hook, including mid-block. Same, by the way, goes for a motorcyclist.

    Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

    Edit: Also, looking at the google image of the location posted above, it appears that there is no parking on this road. On this type of road, most cyclists, regardless of how fast they are riding and the lack of same-direction traffic, normally keep to the side, sadly (and in this case, perhaps tragically).
    Last edited by Helmet Head; 10-18-05 at 10:52 AM.

  25. #25
    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmet Head
    Good points, but none of this explains why the cyclist was not prepared (the crash is evidence that he was not) for the possibility that the bus driver would turn the oncoming bus left in front of the cyclist (either because the driver didn't see the cyclist or because he underestimated his speed), especially into a bus depot driveway. Even when properly positioned vehicularly "centerish" in the lane where motorists are more likely to be looking, a cyclist should always be prepared for a potential left hook, including mid-block. Same, by the way, goes for a motorcyclist.

    Collisions like this should remind us not to rely on motorists seeing us. You have to stay alert in traffic, all the time.

    Edit: Also, looking at the google image of the location posted above, it appears that there is no parking on this road. On this type of road, most cyclists, regardless of how fast they are riding and the lack of same-direction traffic, normally keep to the side, sadly (and in this case, perhaps tragically).
    For once I'm with HH. I never trust the driver of an oncoming vehicle which is going slowly enough to make a turn at an intersection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

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