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Thread: VC puzzler 1

  1. #1
    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    VC puzzler 1

    Consider the following actual account of a recent cycling experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by Name Withheld
    We were downtown riding in the bike lane, going about 16 mph on
    a one-way street. We were coming to an intersection - guy at a stop sign -
    we didn't have one - just as we entered the intersection, he came driving
    through...I panicked a little bit and started to put my feet down, but
    my friend knew just what to do, and turned right (same direction as the car was
    heading) immediately, avoiding hitting the car, AND managing to keep us
    from crashing at the same time. She was so excited that she knew EXACTLY
    what to do...so, thanks for offering the course. We both feel like we are
    better, and safer, riders because of it.
    Is this a good example of vehicular cycling?
    Why or why not?

  2. #2
    Geosynchronous Falconeer recursive's Avatar
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    Yes. Responsible vehicle operators avoid collisions.
    Bring the pain.

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    Newbie Extraordinaire
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    We don't know yet, because you haven't told us. We already know that you and you alone are capable of making wise decisions while operating a bicycle, while the rest of us are just pathetic lambs hoping one day to suckle at your swollen teat of VC knowledge.

    - Warren

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    totally louche Bekologist's Avatar
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    You tell us, VC swami. Then, you could issue a poll about how effective your advice was.

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    34x25 FTW! oboeguy's Avatar
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    The correct answer is, "who cares?". Woohoo, cookie for me!

    Seriously, does it matter? It might difficult for different size vehicles to pull off the same manuever, so in some sense the answer is no, but it still seems irrelevant. Accident avoided, end of story, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order
    Quote Originally Posted by sknhgy
    I do not want to be associated with the kind of riders that come through my neck of the woods on weekends, dressed in superhero costumes
    Do they wear capes?
    ---

    http://www.cycopaths.net/

  6. #6
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
    42
    best answer yet!!!!!

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    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    It's a good example of Effective Cycling, as taught in the Road Course I, that people can go through. Trying to turn inside a vehicle that's about to hit you will either avoid or minimize the damge. It's better than taking a T-bone hit directly to the side.

  9. #9
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recursive
    Yes. Responsible vehicle operators avoid collisions.
    couldn't say it better myself.

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    "...I panicked a little bit and started to put my feet down"

    I'm trying to visualize the vehicle in question. Is it a recumbent tandam? Is someone riding on the handlebars? What is needed is either a turn or braking to avoid the car -- how does putting feet down avoid this? Is it the first step in jumping off the bike? Assuming that turning is more appropriate than braking, turning in the direction of traffic in the cross lane seems preferable. However, I would think maximum braking the better solution, assuming that a bike can generate more deceleration than lateral acceleration.

    It is a puzzler. Tell more.

    Paul

  11. #11
    No Rocket Surgeon eubi's Avatar
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    I'm with PaulH on this. The description of what happened is puzzling.

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    Banned. Helmet Head's Avatar
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    Hint: in recent polls many forum readers claimed they were vehicular cyclists and/or already ride in the way I advocate. I contend that if you ride in traffic vehicularly, then you must think vehicularly. If you think vehicularly, then when you read and visualize the OP description something very obvious should come to mind, something related to the question of whether the incident is a good example of vehicular cycling.

  13. #13
    Senior Member kf5nd's Avatar
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    Untrained people try to apply Fred Flintstone brakes... I think that's what we're talking about here.


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulH
    "...I panicked a little bit and started to put my feet down"
    Peter Wang, LCI
    Houston, TX USA

  14. #14
    Senior Member kf5nd's Avatar
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    mmmm... get out of the bike lane into the main lane at intersection crossings, but that might not have helped them to avoid this situation

  15. #15
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kf5nd
    mmmm... get out of the bike lane into the main lane at intersection crossings, but that might not have helped them to avoid this situation
    Well, it could be a factor, but we dont' know the specifics. Where is the bike lane? The right side, the left side or road, or perhaps in the middle (like I've seen for some cities)? But the bottom line is if the cyclists were going straight they should have positioned themselves in a way that make them visible to side traffic and demonstrated their intent to go straight.

    Al

  16. #16
    beginner budster's Avatar
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    ...think vehicularly.

    hmmm....

    Ah! Got it! They should have hit the air horn and given the guy the fingah!



    Actually, what popped into my mind first was they probably could have avoided the incident altogether. Perhaps they should have moved left and taken the traffic lane to increase their visibility before the intersection.
    Path of Abundance: Be Kind, be Generous, be Content, be Honest and be Aware.

    The first great gift we can bestow on others is a good example. -Thomas Morell
    A thimble of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains. -Dutch Proverb
    Never pass up the chance to keep your mouth shut. -Anonymous Cowboy

  17. #17
    beginner budster's Avatar
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    Great minds think alike...

    And lesser ones, like mine, should probably hit "refresh" before posting.
    Path of Abundance: Be Kind, be Generous, be Content, be Honest and be Aware.

    The first great gift we can bestow on others is a good example. -Thomas Morell
    A thimble of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains. -Dutch Proverb
    Never pass up the chance to keep your mouth shut. -Anonymous Cowboy

  18. #18
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    When I get in the CAR and leave my house I can turn right ot left. When I turn right the first real intersection I come to (the other side of my street has several 4 and 5 house dead ends that 'T' into the street and I don't count those) I do NOT have a stop sign but the other way does. When coming to that intersection in my CAR I slow and anticapate that the car going the other way is reasonable apt to start up as if it were a 4 way stop. Experience has taught me this, because it happens regularly.

    One would think Vehicular Cycling would include applying things you know from driving. So as I see it this is not VC as I would not put myself in a situation where a panic stop or evasive action is needed when driving my car I would take the same caution on a bike.

  19. #19
    EARTH IS FULL. GO HOME. heckflosse's Avatar
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    Wouldn't the best thing to do is to have read the road more before?

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    Senior Member Dchiefransom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noisebeam
    Well, it could be a factor, but we dont' know the specifics. Where is the bike lane? The right side, the left side or road, or perhaps in the middle (like I've seen for some cities)? But the bottom line is if the cyclists were going straight they should have positioned themselves in a way that make them visible to side traffic and demonstrated their intent to go straight.

    Al
    We also have no indication of what they were wearing. In a downtown area like that, it's easy in regular clothes to get lost in the background of what's behind us, no matter which lane we're in. Just like bike lights get lost in the urban background lighting at night, cyclists in broad daylight get easily lost in the background. I've seen riders that others with me have not noticed.
    Edit:
    Last edited by Dchiefransom; 10-25-05 at 12:13 PM.

  21. #21
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dchiefransom
    It's a good example of Effective Cycling, as taught in the Road Course I, that people can go through. Trying to turn inside a vehicle that's about to hit you will either avoid or minimize the damge. It's better than taking a T-bone hit directly to the side.
    Really? Who wudda thunk it? Maybe I really need to go through this course to "learn" more examples of the same.

  22. #22
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    I'm with noisy Al and the budster. BUT even if they had been riding further to the left, the cager still COULD have run the sign. The quick right worked in this case, and it's hard to argue with success.

    I've seen this done by a friend (Tony), and filed it away for future use myself. I was riding 2 lengths behind Tony so I had plenty of time to brake. But he quick-turned right into the side street, parallelling the car. I don't think the moron cager knew what happened, unless he heard us yelling carefully selected phrases. (Tony is not a VC rider. He's a wildassed urban guerilla type.)

    Bicycle brakes are never the greatest, but a good bike under a good rider is very nimble.
    Last edited by Roody; 10-25-05 at 05:20 PM.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  23. #23
    coitus non circum. Mars's Avatar
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    Are the responses to this thread examples of how HH needs to be more respectful and turn down the retoric a bit?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

  24. #24
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
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    I don't think there is a one right answer to these types of questions. They handled it effectively, therefore it was effective cycling. Whether it was VC or not, whether they learned to do this in a course or not, matters not one bit to me.

    They may have handled it differently if they'd been a little further ahead or behind, or if they were on the right side of the street or left, when the guy pulled out. They may have handled it differently if they were clipped into their pedals or using platforms. They may have handled it differently on a recumbent vs a road bike vs a mountain bike. (You never want to put your feet down on a recumbent while you are moving quickly. That's how you break your leg with the dreaded "leg suck.")

    What if they handled it in a non-VC/Serge-approved manner and still avoided the accident? What kind of example of vehicular cylcing would it be then?
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  25. #25
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mars
    Are the responses to this thread examples of how HH needs to be more respectful and turn down the retoric a bit?
    The appropriate response IMO would be to throw a pie in the face of the puzzler who is only trolling with more loaded-question "bait". Given that that can't be done either remotely or electrically, the measured responses so far give more respect to the puzzler/troll than is merited.

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