sbhikes

Well, we can all pay higher prices and simultaneously make more money and have more free time to spend that money and enjoy the things we can afford.

Or we can all pay very low prices, but be working 2 jobs and 16 hour days for so little money that when we finally do get a day off all we can do is buy a few groceries at the company store.

Feldman

I don't know about their wage scale, but Showerspass clothing which is made in Northern California sells top-notch rain jackets for the same price as Chinese made stuff of famous brands. I do know that the Showerspass has very little in the way of parasitic management and marketing structures.

patc

I'll be 34 on Wednesday. I have NEVER in my life had any benefits, not even paid sick days, from an employer. My 40-hour work week, medical care, and other needs are provided by the government. Yes, I am sure unions had a great deal to do with this in the past, but in Canada today these things are pretty much enshrined as the norm, and I doubt even the strongest lobby groups would get a government to significantly change them. Certainly unions have little to do with it today.

I have many, many times however been told one of the following at the end of a contract:
or
Or variations on the above.


The cost of making an item is only one factor in its MSRP, and often not the most significant. Duracell and Eveready essentially market themselves as premium brands and base their sales on name-brand recognition. Ray-o-vac is all but a discount/no-name brand. Even without knowing anything about the relative production costs that alone tells me that Ray-o-vac would likely have a lower MSRP than Duracell.

patc

I know many people in union jobs who feel they LOST their voice to the union.

Dchiefransom

[QUOTE=patc]I'll be 34 on Wednesday. I have NEVER in my life had any benefits, not even paid sick days, from an employer. My 40-hour work week, medical care, and other needs are provided by the government. Yes, I am sure unions had a great deal to do with this in the past, but in Canada today these things are pretty much enshrined as the norm, and I doubt even the strongest lobby groups would get a government to significantly change them. Certainly unions have little to do with it today.

I have many, many times however been told one of the following at the end of a contract:
or
Or variations on the above.





Here in the U.S., they are trying to get rid of all those benefits you list.
It sounds like you've been continuously hired as a "temp".

a77impala

[QUOTE=patc]I'll be 34 on Wednesday. I have NEVER in my life had any benefits, not even paid sick days, from an employer. My 40-hour work week, medical care, and other needs are provided by the government.


Believe it or not the government is the people who pay the taxes required for you to get your medical care and other needs provided by the government. What you are describing is socialism, now that may be fine for Canada but nothing is free someone has to pay for it.
It just may be your employer because he is being taxed to provide your so called government benefits.
Taxes are,after all just a redistribution of wealth.

Blue Order

I'd be interested in hearing the theory behind the notion that workers are in a stronger bargaining position as individuals than they are collectively.

I'd also be interested in hearing the theory behind the notion that 15% of the workforce should carry all the weight of negotiating for 100% of the workforce.

rachmiel99

I asked the bike shop guy about this . . . Cannondales are made in the US at $600 and up. Their lower-priced bikes aren't. I couldn't afford to go that high, so I chose a Specialized Sirrus over a Marin Muirwoods, partly because the former was made in Taiwan rather than China . . .

(China is the worst, btw. The worst.)

rachmiel99

That's exactly why I asked the question. It's one thing to wear shorts so tight that you can tell my religion; it's another to support slave labor while I do it.

Since biking is new to me, I just don't know the answers. For basketball and running, I know that some New Balance employees make a living wage -- https://www.nbwebexpress.com/madeinusa_nb.htm

But I don't know anything about bike stuff . . . so here we are again . . .

galen_52657

Assos clothing is made in Switzerland I believe. It is top of the line. No union needed as the Swiss enjoy government guaranteed health care, vacation and retirement benefits.

ad6mj

GOOD workers are in a better position to succeed as individuals. Unions tend to benefit bad emplyeees more than the good. Unions are interested in what is best for the union, not the employee. Businesses are interested in what is best for the business/shareholders not the employee. At least the business is honest about their interests and they pay me instead of me paying them.

patc

No, my employment history is a series of contracts, from a few weeks to a year each. That is now the norm in many fields, and some people expect it to be the norm overall in the future. My life-partner worked 4 consecutive 1-year contracts for the same employer before they hired him as an permanent employee. Which means he has benefits, but less pay and no more job security!

patc

No, really? Wow.


Really, I thought governments used taxes for toilet paper. At least we agree that the government is taxing me, and not the unions.

I think this thread is going the way of bike-lane debates.

I-Like-To-Bike

At least bike lane debates have something to do with bicycling advocacy and/or bicycling safety.

I'd say this thread is as related to bicycling as rants about the evils of fast food or cell phones on this list.

trackhub

Yes, that is important. But it is not a guarantee is it? Just come to Massachusetts and ask any of the PhD scientists, engineers, IT pros, and optical networking folks who have been laid off since all those industries took a dive five years ago. Some are just now starting to find jobs again, at lower pay than they were getting before. (and yet, housing prices continue to go up, in defiance of basic economics. Fancy that.)

Liquidation firms are making out just fine though.

Three more American Bicycle businesses, if not mentioned already:

Waterford Precision cycle.
Steelman cycles.
Merlin Metalworks.

These companies all produce very well made frames, for cycling enthusiasts. (I ride a Gunnar Street Dog) Most people agree that this is the future of the bicycle business in America: Small companies, producing very high quality frames and other products, for a very small part of the market. There is nothing wrong with this that I can see. Yes, I do remember when Treks were all American made.

To answer the orginal poster's question, yes, cycling clothing is very expensive in large part because it is retailed to such a small market. The same goes for clothing for Skiing, tennis, and golf. Uh, has anyone checked the price tags on ski stuff lately? Glad I don't ski. Let's not forget, cycling is also seasonal for many. (like skiing.) Those who are able to ride in winter are a hearty bunch, but very few in number.

We live in interesting times, that much is certain.

michaelnel

+1 for J&G (https://www.bicycleclothing.com). It's very high quality stuff, reasonably priced and made in Oregon.

oknups

WELL SAID and THANK YOU FOR RESPONDING TO THE UNION BASHING IDIOTS.

rachmiel99

OK -- NOW we are getting somewhere . . . Check this out from the Showerspass website:
We pay our suppliers and contractors fair wages. We make our products in the USA allowing us to visit contractors factories and ensure good working conditions. We try to minimize resource consumption (such as paper catalogues) and recycle or reuse shipping materials as much as possible . . .

This is what I was looking for! J&G also looks pretty good.

A note on unions: as a student rabbi, I worked for a summer with HERE (Hotel Employees/Restaurant Employees union), in an AFL-CIO/Interfaith Worker Justice program designed to bring clergy and labor together. I met amazing people: labor organizers who busted their asses organizing workers, activists earning a fraction of what they could get somewhere else, and immigrant workers who RUN OUR ECONOMY.

When the WTC was knocked down, so was Windows on the World, the restaurant at the top of the towers. The surviving workers and the widows were promised much in the immediate aftermath, and given nothing. The press left. The celebrities left. Mayor Ghouly Guiliani sure as **** left. And then INS threatened to deport them.

ONLY the union cared a rat's ass about these people.

And how did many/most of them get to work? By bike -- people riding not for fun, but because it was what they could afford.

I NEVER thought this would be a controversial question. Why is it so strange to be bummed about supporting human misery just to have a kick-ass time on a bike?

rachmiel99

Found this just now from InSport

As the company grew, so did its ties with the community. InSport is dedicated to working together with its business partners in its nearby communities and nearly 95 percent of InSport's products are made in the United States.

www.insport.com/history.cfm

FLBandit

True, it's no guarantee, but neither is Union employment. I was a carpenter for many years (non-union). It was always amazing how many union guys would come out and work with us. They would constantly complain about the pay, the work, the conditions, etc. When I would suggest that they might be happier in a union job the answer was usually "There's no work right now" or "We're on strike". I don't know how many of those guys we fired because they were not very good at the job or just plain lazy. While there are no absolutes (of course) I don't think a good employee needs a union.

Roughstuff

Exactly. The only areas where unions are growing in membership is in the public sector. Should be absolutely illegal.

I think what will happen in the future is, just as UNIONS went too far for a long time and alienated their support, businesses will go to far and alienate their support as well, and unionism will stage a reasonable comeback. There are folks out there who, for whatever reason, are in need of a strong advocate, who need a union to balance the needs of those workers against the demands of capital.

roughstuff

patc

Interesting view, you may have a point there. Certainly tech workers here need some sort of representation - be that traditional unions or something new. The employers are all too aware that for every employee with a complaint, there are a dozen unemployed guys willing to take the job.

Bekologist

Workers of the world, UNITE! Throw off the chains of oppression, and come together to rally for the rights of all workers! Bring back the wobblies!

I'm still buying made in the USA eco friendly wool Ibex clothes, that's as good as I can do with my consumer dollar, i think.

My Burley rain jacket (which might see its first wearing all season today in Seattle rain!) says

"Made in Eugene, Oregon USA"

"Burley Design Cooperative"

must be a bunch of hippies running the show or sumpin'!

rachmiel99

Another update:

Hi Mike,

Yes, we make our products right here in Oregon because we believe just as you do. Thanks for taking the time to email us, and I hope you'll give our gear a try. Welcome to the world of cycling!

Thank you,

Linda

J&G Cyclewear
PO Box 1195
Marcola, OR 97454

800.452.3938

www.bicycleclothing.com

You guys have been very helpful . . . thanks!

And so . . . now that it seems that we have some choices . . . . WHATEVER you think about unions, can we start a movement to avoid slave labor-produced bike gear whenever possible? Who's in???

Laika

you might want to do a little research about where the term "scab" came from if you're going to continue this practice.