roccobike

Good point. I would like to add to your comment. Have you ever taken your bike back to the LBS about a month after the purchase? I was met with "Oh, can we adjust your cables? Is the bike working OK?, Any problems? Don't forget you have a free tune-up in one month." And at Wally World they offer what kind of service/tune up? Yeah, right!
Actually, the bike shop is protecting themselves by offering free tune-ups and adjustments. If the subject Wal Mart bike had been returned for adjustments, any competent bike mechanic would have asked if there were any problems, found the QR issue and repaired, replaced or instructed the owner how to properly adjust the QR. Just one more reason to buy from the LBS.

tippy

The old bikes I used to ride had nuts on the axles.

What does your bolts screw into?

Thanks,
d.tipton

KrisPistofferson

WalMart and their bikes do indeed suck, but has anyone ever tried to break through the wall of densitude of someone who has convinced themselves that $100 dollars is all they're going to spend on a bicycle, either for themselves or their children? It's impossible. This sort of problem, (and WalMart,) won't go away until people learn they can pay more to get something of quality that will last longer and be (gasp) safe.

noisebeam

Doh, you got me. I don't know why I was writing bolts when I was thinking nuts.

Al

noisebeam

How long should a bike for a fast growing kid last?

Ideally they should be passed on from kid to kid.

Does one buy a $100 bike that will be trashed by kid and last 1-2yrs with minimal care or does one buy a $200 bike that will be trashed by the kid and still only last 1-2yrs before its outgrown and requiring $50 in repairs before it can be passed on to another kid.

Al

chicharron

Exactly. Now if the family cannot afford the prices at the local bike shop, they can still buy a used name brand bike from a garage sale or the classifeds, and take it in to a friendly bike shop and ask the to check it over, tune it up, and see if everything is ready to go. Again, parental repsonsablility come in to play.

alanbikehouston

Anyone who spends a couple of hours riding with a boy who is nine or ten years old quickly sees that they approach bike riding differently than adults. They are going to push a bike to its designed limits, and then beyond those limits.

Knowing that, last year I gave my nephew a Giant BMX bike. The frame, wheels and components were designed knowing the bike would be heavily abused. Massively over-built frame, rims, hubs, handlebars, cranks. If I loaned the bike to a guy who weighed two hundred pounds, took him to a local park and said, "do anything you want"...the bike would survive unharmed.

And, a simple, tough bike bike requires zero upkeep. The hubs are securely bolted to massive dropouts. No quick releases. Just one speed. No front suspension. No rear suspension. Just put air in the tires and go.

Wal-Mart continues to sell kids bikes with 14 speeds, 21 speeds, front suspension, rear suspension, quick releases. All made "just" good enough to meet U.S. government standards IF the bike is expertly assembled and adjusted and IF the rider simply cruises on smooth pavement at moderate speeds.

The stockroom boy does not have a clue how to assemble these bikes. Neither do most dads or moms. Close a quick release correctly? Half the quick releases I see on adult bikes have been closed incorrectly. Expecting that a nine year old will follow the precise tightening procedure, AND have the muscles to close a quick release tightly is a fantasy.

Who is to blame? The parents. I don't give kids guns or knives to play with. Too dangerous. I won't give a kid a 21 speed dual-suspension bike from Wal-Mart either. Too dangerous.

Wal-Mart's slave labor factories in communist China could turn out high quality single speed BMX style bikes that are safe and reliable for a retail price under $100 (given their dual suspension 21 speed bikes sell for $59 and $79). A single speed bike with a coaster brake is so simple to assemble that a monkey, or a Wal-Mart employee could do it correctly. And, if a customer said to a Wal-Mart clerk "My kid wants a dual suspension bike", the employee could be instructed to say "We are a toy store...we don't sell real bikes...if you want a real bike, you need to go to a real bike store."

When will Wal-Mart begin to act in a responsible way? When their survival depends upon it. If Americans stay away from Wal-Mart by the millions, the company will be forced to re-examine how they do business. But, as long as most Americans are happy to buy cheap commie-made crap, then crap is what Americans will get.

Savas

How many bikes does WalMart sell in a year? How many lawsuits have been filed? This might be blown out of proportion.

KrisPistofferson

Excellent post. That pretty much sums it up.

Poguemahone

I'm always amazed by the assumption that a LBS bike is automatically safer and better. I've said this before: it is entirely possible to live in a large metropolitan area and not have access to a single decent LBS. I live in a city of 3/4 million, and there is not a single one here. Last bike I bought at an LBS here, three major components-- the seatpost, the handlebars, and the crank-- all broke in the first six months of riding. The LBS refused to service the bike under warranty, claiming my ten mile commute constituted "unusual use". Other LBSs radiate attitude, work shifty repair scams ("your bike is too old and unsafe, let us sell you a new one"), or are completely clueless and staffed by employees who don't know the difference between the bottom bracket and the headset. We have a co-op, recently opened, which is at least promising, but for the last twenty years or so, you're on your own.

A LBS bike is no guarantee of proper repair, assembly, service, or instruction. LBS bikes, especially at the lower price points, are cheaply spec'ed, and assembled by low-wage workers. Ask your local mechanic what he/she makes, it ain't much. Riders should learn basic maintainence on their own.

I'm no fan of wal-mart bikes, but properly maintained, they're capable rides. I wouldn't ride one, prefering my collection of 20+ year old roadies.

The moral: DIY. Learn to work on your bike. A shop is at best marginally better IME than Wal-mart. Marginally.

JASON R. TOMSIC

I'm sorry, but this is just an example of people not knowing how to use a quick release. PERIOD! ...... And I am not a fan of WalMart.

Cyclepath

I agree, except that there is little communism in China. The Chinese bosses are born-again capitalist robber barons who would make Rockefeller, J.P. Morgan, & Henry Clay Frick proud.

roccobike

I regret to say that I am guilty of just that. I bought a $54 Wally World special when my youngest was an oversized 11 year old. He was too big for a 20 inch frame and too small for a full sized mountain bike. So I decided to save a little money and buy a 18 speed, 24 inch wheel, Roadmaster. No suspension or FRs, and it was cheap. It was an OK bike but the deraileur never did work right. I followed this experiment two years later by going the garage sale route (see post by Chicharron above). I bought him a 15 year old Gary Fisher HOO KOO E KOO. What a difference! It ran like a champ. After that, I was convinced you're better off with a used brand name bike than a new Wally World bike.

catatonic

Exactly. This is why I firmly believe NO x-mart bike should have a quick-release, and instead should have nutted skewers. If they want QR, they should buy one from a bike shop, where they can be instructed in their useage. This should also be mentioned in the manual for these bikes.

Pretty much fools will use the QR lever as a means to twist the nut tighter, which tears up the metal that those forks are made out of, or eats the teeth on the skewer...which will cause a failure sooner or later.

acidosmosis

It seems more than one party may be at fault here. Fact: If Walmart covered up the problem and did not intend on correcting it, they are at fault and should be penalized for it. 98% of people who purchase a bike at Walmart are never in the life-time of the bike going to "check it" so odds are most of the parents/children riding the bike never once really checked for any problems.

msheron

I read the story and if what they claim as far as the company knowing of a problem existing with the QR and Wal-Mart attempting to assist the company in a coverup.......where they got that information is suspect to me, then they may have a legitimate suit.

Now, let me put in my non-legal two cents!

Why would anyone buy a mountain bike from Wal-Mart other than my A$$ is too cheap to buy a decent one for about $150 more from a LBS......low end mind you but none the same, better than the bike from WM! If you have any idea what so ever your child will be doing some heavy and hard riding (which all kids will so the parent does not even have to think on this one folks!), get them a decent bike for that nature of riding or no bike at all. And educate yourself as to how the components work on that bike....................case in point, my friend has his son a MB and will not let him ride it until I go there today to instruct him on how the shifters work and other key aspects of the bike. I think sometimes it is a ill-informed parent that is more dangerous than the hardware itself!

slvoid

The true moral of the story is that the american population a) is pretty stupid on average and b) will sue for any and everything out there.

I-Like-To-Bike

The morals of this thread appear to be according to some of the posters -

1. LBS' are run by saints selling only perfect products ideally selected by the beknighted owner to meet the specific needs of every individual customer. These bikes never go bad because the customers have all been properly instructed to return the perfect bikes to the LBS on a strict schedule for top to bottom maintenance where nothing will escape the attention of the eagle-eyed professional mechanics. The perfect people who buy their bikes from LBS will religously comply/obey with their instructions.

2. Everyplace else is run by and for jack-donkey's who ruin it for the Real Cyclists.

3. Parental responsibility and intelligence (and worthiness of their genetic pool) can be determined by their brand of bike and place of purchase.

KrisPistofferson

Wowzers! My hyperbole-meter is going off the scale! Let's see:

I don't recall anyone ever saying anything to this effect, but if you're comparing the LBS to the technical expertise of your average K-Mart stockboy, I guess that's a fair analysis.

I betcha the 16 year old kid they pull from mopping up spills and breaking down cardboard boxes is generally commended for the speed with which he throws those Chinese failuminum bikes together, not how safely or expertly he did it.<-And that's NOT an exaggeration.

Ah, the old "I don't want to buy crap for me or my family, so I must be an elitist who likes to put on airs."-argument. Nice
strawman. The third strawman of this post, actually. I think that's some sort of record.

vegcrow

Then share some wisdom, please! The only thing I am clear on after reading many of your posts in multiple forums is that a spandex-wearing clown riding a top-notch road bike ruined your birthday party when you were a kid. Enough with the negativity! Spread some light for those of us with cranial corks in our darkened rectums!

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I just can't figure out where all your hostility toward local bike shops and their patrons is coming from. ....waaaaitaminute.... you don't own stock in Wal-Mart, do you?

I-Like-To-Bike

Then you have a very poor memory.

beppe

Ok.

I don't normally venture into the advocacy forum, but I saw the thread from the main page, and decided there needed to be some clarification. I have an acquaintance involved in this case on the plaintiff's side, so I have a little more knowledge than just the SF Chronicle article.

First, the real issue at stake is that the bikes at Wal-Mart are often assembled poorly. AFAICT, the QR thing has to do with a judgement by the lead attorney that that is the most likely to result in a favorable judgement. During the time period in question, there were no lawyer tabs on the front forks.

HOWEVER, because these bikes are assembled by kids who don't know how a bike goes together. This has led to a series of incidents with QR skewers, forks, and even at least 1 missing quill (!).

The second part of the case is that the plaintiffs feel that Wal-Mart has been unresponsive to non-lawsuit-related correctional action.

**I am not a lawyer**

Personally, I think that it's unrealistic to expect everyone to know how bicycle mechanics work, especially when it comes fully assembled. I also think that when you buy something like a bike at a store, you expect it to be built correctly.

Edit: parts redacted, so as not to do damage to the case.

vegcrow

Purely to beat a dead horse: When I buy a bike at a bike store, I expect it to be built correctly. Any place else and I (the consumer) would really double check it. But if a business (any business) is going to sell bikes, it should take the responsibility to sell them in proper condition, and that I understand is the oversimplified basis of the law suit. If I buy a new car from a Toyota dealer, I'd drive it off the lot expecting magic. If I buy a discount car from Mega-Lo-Mart in the aisle between the 12-gallon peanut butter and the no-brand blue jeans, I think the first place I'd take it is to a good mechanic, and I'd keep the receipt handy.

cydewaze

Well if there is a defect in the type of QR used, then the trial will bring that to light. But, I have seen SO many Wal-Mart bikes that have been improperly assembled (mostly the front fork is installed facing the wrong way) that I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bike problem and not a rider problem.

Travelinguyrt

Some of Todays parents of little kids have about mechanical knowledge as a toad......and less concern about something called parental responsibility
Buy cheap,throw away, get out the charge card I'm out of cash,"You want how much for that bike?" "I can get it cheaper at the chinese outlet store"

Some times I wonder if the kids are not "throw" away also